If you owned D&D....

[Josh_Kablack]

I like the guy. I'm just noticing Oots takes cheap shots at Eberron every once in a while.

Two reasons for that

1. It's a D&D comic strip, so it takes cheap shots at everything and anything D&D once in a while

2. After Burlew finished runner-up, he declared a lifelong, if humorous rivalry with Keith Baker. At times he's compared himself to Victor Von Doom and Baker to Reed Richards.

[K]

Didn't Rich Burlew have a setting too?

He didn't merely have one, he finished in the top 3 and got paid with a giant check for a setting that WotC sat on and won't let him talk about due to NDAs.

Regardless of your opinion of GitP's talent and ideas, shelling out ten grand for material you never use is a less than optimal investment - and in hindsight. WotC should probably have published the material from all the runners up in the final two rounds in a compilation book.

It's pretty clear that the contest was just a way to pay off their friends. Crony capitalism is rarely discrete.

[Previn]

It's pretty clear that the contest was just a way to pay off their friends. Crony capitalism is rarely discrete.

I'm not disputing this at all, but I'm not actually sure of the links that make it a pay off between friends. Google is proving rather unhelpful in that aspect as well. Do you have a reference I could read?

[erik]

Regardless of your opinion of GitP's talent and ideas, shelling out ten grand for material you never use is a less than optimal investment - and in hindsight. WotC should probably have published the material from all the runners up in the final two rounds in a compilation book.

Yeah. If they're paying for material then it is criminal not to use it. I have a hard time believing that out of thousands of submissions they could not have outright published 3 awesome campaign settings rather than just their one favorite. Then track their sales and go all-in on the one that moves the most. There certainly was a market for new campaign settings since there were tons of other publishers who made em.

[shadzar]

it isnt criminal to buy the rights the things and then jsut discard them to prevent someone else from using them. that is how businesses work. they literally kill off the competition. CAmpbells did it when they bought Franco American. they threw away the recipes, and just used the copyrighted names of the products with their own recipes. effectively paying for the material and not using it. like WotC buying TSR and not using D&D, only its name.

what i would do with D&D is shelf the RPG. let the novel writers make their stories to keep selling under the terms that its a 50-50 split of ownership of characters created for a D&D novel. so no other novels could be written about Elminster without Greenwood's permission so long as he lives. upon his death, his rights revert to the owner of D&D. he did effectively sell his game to TSR way back when anyway, but doesnt mean other people should be playing in his author/novel sandbox.

then make some board games that are INSPIRED BY D&D. they dont use any RPG rules, but use the RPG places, people, names, and have a sense of being about D&D. no robots, machine guns or stuff like that. get a D&D type monopoly game out:
free parking = free lodging
jail = death
get out of jail free = raise dead/ressurection
each deed would be to a famous D&D location, grouped upon setting.
-Pax Tharaxas/Inn of the Last Home
-Waterdeep/Shadowdale/Skullport
luxury tax = tithe
railroads = core class training guilds (fighter guild, wizard guild, rogue guild, cleric guild)
chance cards = fate
community chest = treasure chest
playing pieces that look like iconic D&D peopels and thiings (beholder, treasure chest, wizard, dwarf, fighter, elf, cleric, orc, unmarked d20)
houses and hotels = inns and taverns

work on getting everything official from 1973 until 2012 as legible PDF, and ZERO proprietary OS support. if it aint cross-platform, it aint digital. if it cant use PDF, then it sucks for the device, but wont do D&D.

price based on page count for electronic, maps and such that required offline will be POD, including things like maps, handouts, dungeon tiles, tarot cards, deck of...s, etc.

get ALL core editions (PHB, DMG, MM only) printed and in print: (w/errata and cleaned up for legibility removing images that cause problems reading, including but not limiting to headers and footers and backgrounds. sorting tings and having proper in ALL versions: glossary, index, table of contents...NOT cross-book referenced)
D&D 0e:OD&D (not sure about the board game and chainmail required for using it)
D&D 1e:Holmes
D&D 2e:Moldvay/Cook
D&D 3e:Mentzer (BECMI)
D&D 4e:Rules Cyclopedia
AD&D 1e: EGG AD&D
AD&D 2e: Cook/Winter
D&d20: 3.x from 20xx
ADDM: (Advanced D&D Miniatures) aka 4th edition (includes paper miniatures)

poll settings (except birthright, eBerron, dragonlance SAGA, and Conan) to pick the top fiting few to work with.

print ONE fluff book on EACH setting (including those left out of the poll) so that they can be used in ANY edition.

above ALL else, keep D&D tabletop play. if it cant survive as a tabletop game. it dies.

[Desdan_Mervolam]

I find it interesting that Shadzar, who so embodies the No True Scotsman Fallacy that I think he employs a team of workers around the clock to ensure his goalposts never stop moving, has honestly suggested a board game line on level of D&D Monopoly, and a movement to republish all editions and splatbooks as digital PDFs.

That said, I really do like the idea of a digital push that is edition agnostic. I don't think the idea of producing books (Electronic or otherwise) that will work with any edition is feasable, because none of the settings really work together, but hey

In fact, let's take it a little further. All D&D Books that WotC owns the rights to (Which is pretty much all but the books that contain other people's IP used without permission, like the original Deities and Demigods) are now available on the Wizards website. Prices low, since respecting your audience, keeping prices low and making things convenient is the best copy protection around. $5 max for proper books, $1 for modules, and each core should be bundled for $10.

Shelf the idea of 5E for at least another 3-5 years. Hell, drop all new book production in that time. If you're intent on doing a 5e at all (Which I don't think is necessary) then cut staff down to a few people who've worked out well in the past, recruit a couple of groups worth of unpaid playtesters and spend that time developing something GOOD.

Meanwhile, I'd keep D&D's brand alive through periphary products. Books have a long history with D&D and I see no reason to stop that now. Let's get a movie and a TV series going. With so many interesting settings in D&D it's criminal how little has been done with it in other media (Aside from books anyway). And I don't see why almost everything so far has been Generic, Settingless D&D. It baffles me why noone's done a bunch of D&D movies set in The Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft and Dragonlance by now. And then the weirder crap in D&D, like Planescape, Spelljammer, the Underdark? All great backdrops for a new D&D cartoon. Put out some fun, fast-playing dungeon-crawl board games. Get some name recognition back under the game. THEN start worrying about putting out new RPG books.

[K]

It's time for 5th edition. 4e had so little life in it that it's already dying and letting Pathfinder eat you alive for another 3-5 years is no solution.

That being said, all indicators are that 5th edition will be a flop as well. Here's hoping for 6th edition in 5 years.

As for movies, DnD needs an honest-to-god movie agent. If Parker Brothers can get a $200 million dollar version of Battleship, DnD can get something far better than what it's ever done.

[Desdan_Mervolam]

It's time for 5th edition. 4e had so little life in it that it's already dying and letting Pathfinder eat you alive for another 3-5 years is no solution.

If that is true, it's only because there is so little interest in tabletop RPGs in general right now. The last thing we need is churn, telling the audience that if they like what's going on now they're out of luck because a new edition is about to come out every few years. 1e came out in '77, 2e was 12 years later in '89, 3e was in 2000 (11 years later), and then 4e was in '08. I appreciate that 4e was a failed experiment, but do we really want to be putting out ground-up relaunches every 5 years, instead of 10?

[shadzar]

As for movies, DnD needs an honest-to-god movie agent. If Parker Brothers can get a $200 million dollar version of Battleship, DnD can get something far better than what it's ever done.

Parker Brothers doesn't exist. Battleship is by HASBRO. HASBRO already owns ALL the old board game companies, PB, MB, Avalon hill (via wotc via TSR).

also Coutrney Soleman pretty much screwed WotC on the D&D movie rights, so nobody can make another movie without his permission due to the name of his movie. his being part of Wrath of the Dragon God, was the only wya sci-fi could do that. DragonLance doesnt have D&D in the movie title, which bypasses Solomons rights to video D&D.

so he pretty much screwed the chance for even a TV series, or cartoon.

now if you fire the morons that did the CGI/cell-shaded mix form Dragonlance, and get some real animation, it could be possible to do some of those settings and stories. why let all of Elminsters life go to waste? easier in computer-aided graphics than cell-shaded though, but still not quick. and the cost for live-action is ridiculous with the amount of make-up that would be needed for a series or CG for monsters that cant be done by actors. add to that MoCap os dead thanks to Mars Needs Moms and the morons behind it. tho Jackson will still be using MoCap for Gollum in the Hobbit. so it hasnt been abandoned yet, jsut needs people that understand it to be allowed to use it. Cameron is surely going to keep using MoCap in avatar 2,3,4(?).

it would be great to see human-centric D&D stories, but adding elves and jsut the effects starts costing. just look how much effects have been cut in MErlin. only his eyes light up and every other flashy thing has been cut where magic you only see the end result, not the whole stream.

it is needed though since so many fantasy shows are coming back around and movies. and D&D the movie was MUCH better than Battleship. take the realm of fantasy away form being in Disney's pocket...or hell try to get Disney to do it...and it would go very far. just stay away from money grubbers like big name actors that want lots of VA pay, and go to places that already do VA work and get some of those "big names" that will work for less than say Kiefer Sutherland, or Nancy Cartwright (Bart Simpson); but the smaller big names like Crispin Freeman, Greg Ayres, Steve Blum, Jessica Boone, Tara Strong, etc.

the lack of good story is NOT something D&D has, jsut the ability to make something work like the original D&D cartoon. it may be dated, but at that time, there was NOTHING that compared to it except maybe Wizards the movie.

[Username17]

It's time for 5th edition. 4e had so little life in it that it's already dying and letting Pathfinder eat you alive for another 3-5 years is no solution.

If that is true, it's only because there is so little interest in tabletop RPGs in general right now. The last thing we need is churn, telling the audience that if they like what's going on now they're out of luck because a new edition is about to come out every few years. 1e came out in '77, 2e was 12 years later in '89, 3e was in 2000 (11 years later), and then 4e was in '08. I appreciate that 4e was a failed experiment, but do we really want to be putting out ground-up relaunches every 5 years, instead of 10?

Well, they really are stuck with disastrously terrible decisions made between 2003 and 2008. There is nothing they can do about the fact that they used up much of their good will by making a non-revision redo of 3e in 2003 or that they attempted to kill their flagship product with a new edition that turned out to not work and basically be unfixable in 2008. That fucking happened, and crying about how it shouldn't have happened is appropriate but unproductive.

In order to get things going again, they need to make a "hard break" like in 2000 and get buzz going. Their last edition didn't just peter out, it was DOA and went down flaming like the Hindenburg. Fundamentally, what they need to do now is to convince people that they "get" why 4e failed. They have to do a fucking apology tour, because when they go on about how maybe 4e was too balanced or some shit they just alienate their potential fanbase even more.

4e's marketing was way too negative about 3e. But moving forward they have to admit that mistakes were made and convince people reading interviews in gaming magazines that they know what those mistakes actually were. Yes, they need something like D&D Next. But they need to fire everyone working on it right now and make a new edition headed up by people who can offer insight into the actual things wrong with 3e and 4e.

The apology tour needs to have quotes like this in it:

• "Fighters in 3e did not perform at high level because the players and monsters had battlefield defining abilities and there was no guaranty that they could even get close enough to swing a sword. Moving forward, Fighters need to have abilities that matter in epic battlefields."
• "Multiclassing had a lot of promise in 3e, but mixing Warrior and Wizard levels never really worked out. Moving forward, we're going to fix the "multicaster" problem in the PHB."
• "4e Skill Challenges didn't work at all. You could end up hurting your team's chance of success by trying to do things you were good at. Moving forward, player contributions to out-of-combat action should be positive."

You know, something that would make it clear that if they were intent on making mistakes, that they would at least be different mistakes from the ones that were made in the past. Because right now, they can't expect people to buy their books without the assurance that the mistakes that made those people not buy the last set of books aren't being made going forward.

It's a tough road, and they need to eat a lot of crow. But if they don't do it, they're just going to get the same response that they are getting to D&DNext right now: "They still don't get why their last D&D sucked, why should I care about their new D&D?"

Basically, they need three things:

• A product to hype.
• A fucking apology to get that hype a second glance.
• Some hype content that makes it look like the new edition is something people might actually want.

-Username17

[Midnight_v]

I think... and I'm not being funny here. I think in every organization there's someone who come up with the idea "maybe we should just admit where we were wrong". I don't think that guy get to talk anymore after that.
I'm with you though.

Also, the one thing I'd do is make "The legend of Drizzt" into an anime or a movie etc.
I know you guys tend hate him, but it's because he's the from what I can tell "Wolverine" of D&D. I been hearing "Drow elf ranger" since I was 12, I'm 32 now. He sells apparently.
Alternatively you can do something with Dragonlance but I'm not sure who owns that or if its D^D any more.
Thats what they'd need to move it. Movies/anime. Focus on "Cool"/"Pop" characters.

Also and/or Alternatively, I'd hire other big names in sci-fi fantasy etc... to write novels set in the D&D universe. Neil Gaiman comes to mind but there are plenty others. Fuck I'd get a book of short stories/anime's written, and I'd get Steven King to put his name on "ONE" of our products.

The universe of D&D would be "shared world" and we'd get new people in by using: Big Name Writers, Popular Characters, Anime/Toons, and if that works over time get a good director and make the avengers movie but with D&D instead.

Though selling it to disney seems like a damned good Idea to get these things done.

[Desdan_Mervolam]

Something else I'd do. Start promoting gaming in general within the public consciousness. That's something that needs to happen but noone's doing anywhere within the hobby.

Role-Playing isn't exactly seen anymore as a satanic cult ritual, but in some ways the public perception is worse: It's something that under-socialized dorks get together in their mom's basement to play. It's not a cool thing to do. And that needs to change. Someone needs to point out that roleplaying is good for socializing and developing imaginations.

[shadzar]

Though selling it to disney seems like a damned good Idea to get these things done.

disney sucks at live action fantasy, though they make pretty solid cartoons. so like you are saying make a cartoon out of Drizzt, they might be able to do. for live-action, i still think WB works the best with fantasy. Dreamworks or Lucas-Arts might be able to do animation better than Disney cell-shaded. or maybe even Luxas-Arts for live-action. either way ILM will end up doing the special effects on any live-action.

D&D doesnt need anime-ification as the characters already exist, they dont need a stylized change to them. Dragonlance only real problem was the chopping out bits and the CG mixed with cell-shaded didnt work like most anime companies can make it work. the CG was added OVER the cell-shaded is the problem for Dragonlance, rather than doing the CG and then having the "cell-shaded" dont over it and the CG blended properly.

Iron MAn cartoon looks off, and to much like flash animation, and seem similar to the problems that Dragonlance has, so Disney shouldnt be working with it for D&D, likewise the midget Avengars are too heavily blacklined.

IF Thundercats new animators, could remove the anime-ification for D&D and do the characters as they should look, then that would be able to work. androgenous males, just dont cut it for D&D.

[Midnight_v]

@Desdan: I think that might be a pretty big hurdle to jump. TTRPG's involve reading, and it's easier in so many ways to play darksouls or whatever the most popular rpg is right now. Rpg's seem to mostly appeal to the Reader's out there that group includes undersocialized dorks. I agree with you that i'd be nice buuut... making it "The cool thing to do" puts it at odds with going out and joining the mating rituals of the area, mall, club, football games, meeting with whoever it is you want to bone and boning them in your mom's basement instead. "Cool" is about posturing to get notice more than anything, TTPRG's is about something else right?
Parents get your kids to play D&D at least they're not out getting laid, or doing violence. . . *uh... wait...*

@shadzar ... I don't know if you're responding to me or to Desdan, I don't see what you write.

[Prak]

Something else I'd do. Start promoting gaming in general within the public consciousness. That's something that needs to happen but noone's doing anywhere within the hobby.

Role-Playing isn't exactly seen anymore as a satanic cult ritual, but in some ways the public perception is worse: It's something that under-socialized dorks get together in their mom's basement to play. It's not a cool thing to do. And that needs to change. Someone needs to point out that roleplaying is good for socializing and developing imaginations.

I vote for as many celebrity endorsements as possible. Not just the obvious people, like Wheaton or Felicia Day, but mainstream people who play like Vin Diesel and Robin Williams.

[OgreBattle]

I really don't see any possibility of a tabletop roleplaying expansion in America. It's as big as it's going to be, every college campus has folks who play D&D.

I don't really know how useful the name is anyways, I'm just going to create my own RPG giant in China.

I'd be more interested in controlling the Games Workshop IPs

[Username17]

Games Workshop's IPs are almost worthless. Games Workshop's ironfisted ownership of distribution rights in European hobby stores is worth mad bank.

-Username17

[Midnight_v]

I had been playing dark souls for a while now and it hit me that it really is just a dungeons and dragons game by another name, and frankly there's soo much of that but this one really takes the cake slimes, mimics, demigods, death no saving through (artorius ring). Seriously though I don't see why they don't make D&D a video game franchise that works.

Another thing I'd do is get w/capcom and re-release D&D tower of doom purchasable for downloadable X-box360 arcade /Ps3 network Content. 4 player Home and online play.

[Lago PARANOIA]

I really don't see any possibility of a tabletop roleplaying expansion in America. It's as big as it's going to be, every college campus has folks who play D&D.

If D&D or the Tabletop Game Industry in general is going to avoid sinking to permanent niche status like the toy railroad or slot car fanbase, it needs to do three things:

[*] It needs to get children involved. Now I understand that you don't want to exclusively market to children; you want a bit of edge to your product to make your product cool (or at least not-embarrassing) to teenagers and young adults while still making it appropriate for children to pick up. I'm talking more FiM or Kingdom Hearts or Star Trek: TOS/TNG and less Halo or Star Trek: DS9. Even though DS9 is the fucking boss.

The violence and gore really needs to come down but at the same time it needs to not be overly kiddy. That's a really hard needle to thread, but it's possible. I suggest deconstructing the typical fantasy tropes and/or introducing more horror themes. If you really think you're up to it you can also slightly sexualize the artwork more, too -- more like primetime nippleless shounen fanservice anime and less like World of Gor or even Highschool of the Dead. But stuff like d20 Modern showing a shredded and cannibalized Santa Claus torso or a giant sentient cockroach ripping out of someone's flesh, while rad to the fucking max, limits how strongly you can market to 10 and 11 year olds.

[*] It needs to entail less of an initial sunk cost. I keep pushing having three full-sized core books on newsprint for ~30 U.S. Dollars and a 20 dollar boxed set. I mean it, too. The D&D core books are fucking expensive to someone not already hooked by them.

[*] The basic prose for the book needs to be good. Because D&D is already really damn wordy and you're not going to get it below 50,000 words per core book, I suggest having more comics in the basic book and getting someone like Frank or Tweet or NIS to make the writing punchier and witty. You need to have a handful of good editors/technical writers, those whose sole job is to pass through all of the books and submitted material and jazz up the writing. D&D right now treats 'editor' as 'proofreader' and that shit has to stop. Idea guys should be lower on the totem pole than editors.

[Neurosis]

I had been playing dark souls for a while now and it hit me that it really is just a dungeons and dragons game by another name, and frankly there's soo much of that but this one really takes the cake slimes, mimics, demigods, death no saving through (artorius ring). Seriously though I don't see why they don't make D&D a video game franchise that works.

You're right; not just that, Dark Souls is D&D exactly as I imagine it should look aesthetically...and with a DM who is a real dick.

Great game, though!

[Judging__Eagle]

Good fucking grief.

It's been 31 years, and one of the best current video games is... still a Roguelike of one kind or an other.

Honestly, that's pretty awesome.