Equipment for a troll creature.

[RadiantPhoenix]

I assume he wants to troll his players ^_^

Why?

[Prak]

Because players have a tendency to be plot ruining assholes?

[RadiantPhoenix]

Because players have a tendency to be plot ruining assholes?

Maybe that's because you're apparently a railroading asshole.

A, "plot," should be one of the following in an RPG:

• Backstory (i.e., "this happened, now the game begins!")
• A backup plan if the players all wind up going, "well, I dunno, what do you want to do?"

Plot does not get any special protection in a good RPG.

EDIT: Fixed tags

[Prak]

I'm not, actually. I roll with tangents and detours. I just get perturbed when it takes my group two months to follow up on a call to adventure...

[...You Lost Me]

Troll. The species. Holy crap, half these posts are off-topic (Radiant) or about something entirely different.

K's water-walking idea was cool. You could also have the troll wear a ring of darkness and fit it with a level of that true fiend class so it gets See in Darkness. Some contingent effect(s) to protect it from fire/acid damage so it doesn't go down in 1 round would be useful. Perhaps a one-shot fire shield, but then again that makes it a consumable and consumables are bad...

[RadiantPhoenix]

Troll. The species. Holy crap, half these posts are off-topic (Radiant) or about something entirely different.

Troll = function of monster, not species of monster.

I'm pretty sure the original intent was, in fact, to figure out how to troll players with a monster.

[LeadPal]

Troll. The species. Holy crap, half these posts are off-topic (Radiant) or about something entirely different.

Troll = function of monster, not species of monster.

I'm pretty sure the original intent was, in fact, to figure out how to troll players with a monster.

I assumed he meant a closet troll, as in a generic melee rape monster.

[...You Lost Me]

Troll. The species. Holy crap, half these posts are off-topic (Radiant) or about something entirely different.

Troll = function of monster, not species of monster.

I'm pretty sure the original intent was, in fact, to figure out how to troll players with a monster.

>.>
<.<

Troll. As in I don't know how to read.

Gonna just leave now...

[Mr. GC]

In before K has some sort of nerd meltdown. Good ideas. I can't say how many of those I will use or already have used as the people I'm going to use it on read this board.

Have you considered being polite to people who are trying to help you? Maybe not make assumptions about them?

Sure I have. But when people come in and say things like:

If you hate PCs enough to use trolls, just go the whole way and hand them magic full plate and some way to be proficient in it.

Hating PCs enough to stock a monster with consumables is probably too much hate.

If you don't hate PCs, toss on some fun item and make the encounter around it. For example, a Ring of Water Walking is super cheap and would be fun to have the troll use in a swamp environment where it ran around with some javelins or something while it regenned and the PCs splashed around trying to get to it.

In which you go out of your way to insinuate that I must hate the party for even considering this, and making assumptions about me you clearly have no interest in actually helping and are just getting mad about it.

That being said, my point was twofold:

1. Consumables cheat PCs out of treasure, thus making the encounters feel less satisfying even if you add extra treasure to make it up.

I shouldn't respond to this at all, but I will anyways. Only if they sit there and let them buff instead of coming after them right away. You'll also notice I said I'd rather not do that, so I'm not sure why you're still bitching about it.

2. Consumables boost monster power well outside of the range of other magic items, making monsters unfairly hard in most situations. They don't make monsters more interesting and screw with CR calculations you were using as a benchmark for encounter challenge and rewards for the encounter. All of that is bad.

Enemies have very limited wealth. Consumables make good use of that, and if the party is sitting around giving enemies 5+ buff rounds then perhaps they should fight something much stronger than normal. Though, again, I said I'd rather not do that.

And I said troll creature instead of just troll to try and curb any misunderstandings about what I meant...

[Soyweiser]

Yeah, but what if those trolls used their magical DM vision the consume all those consumables before the combat started? Then the party is cheated! Cheated I say!

Why do you hate your players? Leave your players alone!

But seriously, does your group find troll monsters fun? When I DM'ed and used them, it was for my own benefit. Most of the times they didn't think they where fun.

[fectin]

K's actually one of the more levelheaded and laid back folks around here. If you're antagonizing him, you're probably doing it wrong. Actually, acting thin-skinned around here is doing it wrong anyway.

Trolling your players is really straightforward though: aboleths.

Also, for grappling, let me blow your mind: were-squid.

[Mr. GC]

K's actually one of the more levelheaded and laid back folks around here. If you're antagonizing him, you're probably doing it wrong. Actually, acting thin-skinned around here is doing it wrong anyway.

He doesn't act like it. And I'm amused, not offended.

[Soyweiser]

Also, for grappling, let me blow your mind: were-squid.

Weresharksquidbear: https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2564/39 ... 896877.jpg

[RobbyPants]

Troll. The species. Holy crap, half these posts are off-topic (Radiant) or about something entirely different.

Troll = function of monster, not species of monster.

I'm pretty sure the original intent was, in fact, to figure out how to troll players with a monster.

I assumed he meant a closet troll, as in a generic melee rape monster.

I'm pretty sure this is the case, too. From the OP:

I'm drawing a blank here. I can't think of anything to give him except mass consumables... which I'd prefer to avoid.

19.5kish, and this is for a melee brute that has no opposable thumbs in its standard form but can assume a form that has them. I could just say screw it and throw on some basic stat boosting items and call it a day but I'd prefer something more imaginative than that. I'm just drawing a blank on what non stat boosting items are actually useful.

[Mr. GC]

Yes, it's a melee monster. That I would like to have mess with the party. I've already gotten some good ideas on how to go about doing that.

Can we move on from debating the semantics of the word troll and whether or not I should suck a barrel of cocks for doing this?

[K]

2. Consumables boost monster power well outside of the range of other magic items, making monsters unfairly hard in most situations. They don't make monsters more interesting and screw with CR calculations you were using as a benchmark for encounter challenge and rewards for the encounter. All of that is bad.

Enemies have very limited wealth. Consumables make good use of that, and if the party is sitting around giving enemies 5+ buff rounds then perhaps they should fight something much stronger than normal. Though, again, I said I'd rather not do that.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume that you are woefully ignorant of forum terminology for DnD stuff.

For example, a consumable is not a potion. It's a magic item that is destroyed after use.

This means that a monster with attack spells on scroll, a Scarab of Protection, or Arrows of Spell Storing is considered to be using "consumables" despite none of those things going into his mouth. Note that they don't use buff rounds at all.

While these things do make best the use of a monster's treasure, they also distort the monster's power level in a way that was not intended.

This is why we should continue the conversation about why you should go suck a barrel of cocks. If you want to challenge players more, just use bigger monsters. If you want to challenge them more and not appear to be doing so, this is not possible since they will figure it out the instant some tricked-out monster appears.

If you are just minmaxing for the sake of minmaxing, go suck a barrel of cocks.

If you are trying to make fun encounters for players, there is a slight possibility that there is still enough goodwill left to provide you with suggestions.

[Soyweiser]

K's actually one of the more levelheaded and laid back folks around here. If you're antagonizing him, you're probably doing it wrong. Actually, acting thin-skinned around here is doing it wrong anyway.

He doesn't act like it. And I'm amused, not offended.

[Mistborn]

If you are just minmaxing for the sake of minmaxing, go suck a barrel of cocks.

Is there any other reason to minmax. ^_^

If you are trying to make fun encounters for players, there is a slight possibility that there is still enough goodwill left to provide you with suggestions.

Hey, he still has plenty of good will with me. I happen to enjoy encounter that are minmaxed.

[virgil]

I like the idea of the Sentinel, from the Wildspace Spelljammer supplement. It's a 6m tall Gundam suit, for beholders! You should totally create a variation on this as a magic item, akin to the apparatus of Kwalish, and have your troll jump out like candy from a pinata.



Assault Apparatus
This item appears to be an inert stone golem, 30' in height, but it has a secret catch (Search DC 20 to locate) that opens a hatch in the torso. Anyone, one Large character is the maximum capacity (or two Medium), who crawls inside finds ten (unlabeled) levers: The device has the following characteristics: hp 200; hardness 20; Spd 30ft; Space/Reach 15 ft/15 ft; AC 26 (-2 size, -4 Dex, +22 natural); Atk +22 melee (4d6+15, slam), +8 ranged touch (4d6, 2 light rays, 50' max range, no increments); Wave Motion Beam (10' wide, 100' long line, 16d6 magic missile damage, Fortitude DC 18 for half, 1d4 round cooldown)

Lever (1d10)	Lever Function
1	Charge target
2	Attack adjacent target
3	Total defense
4	Withdraw
5	Wave Motion Beam at target
6	Fire light rays at target
7	Stand or drop prone
8	Open/close 'eyes' with continual flame
9	Lift/drop adjacent target
10	Open/close hatch

Operating a lever is a full-round action, and no lever may be operated more than once per round. A verbal command is required, in Undercommon, to designate a target or direction for movement when a lever is pulled. If none is provided when a lever is pulled, a valid target is chosen randomly or a 1d8 is rolled for a direction moved. The device can function in water up to 900 feet deep or in the Plane of Vacuum. It holds enough air for a crew of two to survive 1d4+1 hours (twice as long for occupant).
Strong evocation and transmutation; CL 19th; Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Construct, animate objects, continual flame, web, magic missile, searing light, creator must have 12 ranks in the Knowledge (architecture and engineering) skill; Market Price: 90,000gp

[K]

If you are just minmaxing for the sake of minmaxing, go suck a barrel of cocks.

Is there any other reason to minmax. ^_^

Sure. You can minmax to make a fun character concept possible, you can do it cover important roles that the party/monsters need, and you can do it as a proof of concept for a game concept you think needs revision or support.

If you are doing it to make encounters harder, you can just make encounters harder. It's not like the players are not going to catch on to the fact that minmaxing a monster is increasing its power dramatically. It just makes you look like a douche for trying to pretend that the encounter should not be worth as much XP and treasure for its actual difficulty and that PCs are weak sauce for not being able to beat it easily.

Hence, go suck a barrel of cocks.

DMs can't "win" the game by beating players, cheating them out of treasure, or making them feel bad. In fact, these are forms of losing.

[Mistborn]

If you are doing it to make encounters harder, you can just make encounters harder. It's not like the players are not going to catch on to the fact that minmaxing a monster is increasing its power dramatically. It just makes you look like a douche for trying to pretend that the encounter should not be worth as much XP and treasure for its actual difficulty and that PCs are weak sauce for not being able to beat it easily.

Hence, go suck a barrel of cocks.

DMs can't "win" the game by beating players, cheating them out of treasure, or making them feel bad. In fact, these are forms of losing.

Well in my expirence if you're giving monster lot's of consumables even if some of them are consumed players tend to reap a bountiful harvest of consubles and that tends to make people happy. Spening wealth on consumables has been in my expirence the only way to make encounters with humanoids anything like a real chalenge. Unless your players are totall basket weavers then they should be fine.

What it's not like you're running this game because you like them or anything.