You do fucking win at D&D.

[nockermensch]

Hey Mistborn, check this out:

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.

1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability. (aka: nebulous builds, evasive answers, whatever data is actually provided, it's immediately shown to be not as good as claimed)
2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry. (LOL, see above)
3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement. (this one probably doesn't apply. whatever)
4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions. (everybody ELSE is basketweavers)
5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil. (no idea here, you may know better already)
6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances. (same as above)
7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader. (well, threads in the clowns case. Everybody else sees him for what he is)
8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough". (the clown doesn't miss a chance to say your builds are rather weak, etc)
9. The group/leader is always right. (I don't remember the clown ever apologizing, even when caught in clear mistakes like the Shadow/shadow confusion)
10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible. (everybody else is wrong, 95% of D&D players are weak, etc.)

7/10, man, with one of the misses "not applying" to a gaming group and two others that may even be true.

I'd bring my own drinks to their games.

[Mistborn]

Hey Mistborn, check this out:

Go suck a barrel of cocks basketweaver. Going internet psychologist is that last thing you should be doing if you want to get on my good side. Don't think for a second that we're friends you've already made it clear you're not a person that I want to be even vaguely associated with.

Oh, 45. Ok, so that's about oh... 5% (possibly) over what enemies have been hitting you for already many more times a round? So again, why do you care?

Also, if you were remotely competent, and not just looking for someone to follow you'd know that DoTs = prime Extend bait, so bad liar. Stop lying.

Your uber encounter is half a full attack from something the party beat two levels ago. Watch no one care. Except those losers that are like "Holy shit, our all Rogue party has to fight a Sorcerer with Lightning Bolt! What do we do?"

As for you you're campaigns have so many houserules they barely resemble actual 3.5 at all. You know what let's see If you still know how to play real D&D. I've had a little something stated up for a while now so why don't you stat up some 8th level PCs and see if your CharOping skills can back up what you've been saying here. It'll give us all something to do rather than just scream at each other.

[Mr. GC]

Or you could be going full retard again.

What is actually happening is that there are few good players, finding good players is hard, and in addition a strict screening process is required as basket weavers are very prone to meaningless babbling and trolling and the like.

Originally Mistborn seemed to be a good player. I later learned he actually didn't know that much (which is fine, even a total new player can learn if they are willing) and after that discovered some serious character flaws such as valuing being "liked" over what actually matters. So the instant the Den started hating on me he did as well just to fit in. Before I showed up he followed Kaelik about the same way he was following me about. I have no interest in people that insecure and that weak, so all contact was severed immediately upon him proving beyond all doubt he was a lost cause.

And oh yeah, if I was some sort of cult leader (roflmao), Mistborn would be prime mind control bait so first you have to explain why I gave him DAS BOOT instead of keeping him around, and then when you cannot you must then apologize to us all (meaning every member of this board including yourself) for subjecting us to your full retard.

And ya know, if you wanted to bitch and sperg about me making mistakes, thinking Mistborn was worth anything was a huge one. You could totally nail me with that. I wouldn't even argue with you about it. Because unlike the DoTs thing, or the shadow demon thing or the troll thing you'd actually be right. I thought he was a good player and I totally fucking epic failed that shit. Hardcore.

Oh, 45. Ok, so that's about oh... 5% (possibly) over what enemies have been hitting you for already many more times a round? So again, why do you care?

Also, if you were remotely competent, and not just looking for someone to follow you'd know that DoTs = prime Extend bait, so bad liar. Stop lying.

Your uber encounter is half a full attack from something the party beat two levels ago. Watch no one care. Except those losers that are like "Holy shit, our all Rogue party has to fight a Sorcerer with Lightning Bolt! What do we do?"

As for you you're campaigns have so many houserules they barely resemble actual 3.5 at all. You know what let's see If you still know how to play real D&D. I've had a little something stated up for a while now so why don't you stat up some 8th level PCs and see if your CharOping skills can back up what you've been saying here. It'll give us all something to do rather than just scream at each other.

Several things.

1: RAW D&D is a solved equation. All casters, save or loses only, FINAL DESTINATION! Everything else is just different grades of garbage. Meanwhile enemy offense? Enemy offense is actually BETTER in RAW, as they do the same or more damage while you have less HP and AC. You'd know that if you had the abilities I thought you had. So all that changes there is that you have less variety in the party and slightly less variety in the enemies (as they can no longer come at you with stuff like "dual wielding" or "throwing weapons" so they're all casters with two handed melees and archers as filler).
2: I had to correct you about the irrelevance of Rogues among MANY other points, so I have little confidence in your abilities. However, that doesn't matter because...
3: You disgust and disappoint me. Get out of my sight. Neither I nor the Den will accept you.

[Winnah]

What is actually happening is that there are few good players, finding good players is hard, and in addition a strict screening process is required as basket weavers are very prone to meaningless babbling and trolling and the like.

How introspective of you.

[Chamomile]

I dunno, the Den seems about as chill with LM as with anyone else.

[Mistborn]

So you're going to pussy out that's disappointing. Let me make one thing clear if I cared about being liked why would I be making enemies on both sides of this debate. As for you I have no interest in people who talk themselves up to the degree to witch you do and then fail to deliver when their bluff gets called.

Like I said before I base my positions own concrete evidence and rational analysis and you haven't provided that all you've done is preen and talk about how awesome you are. So are you going to post some statblocks or not.

You posted contextless numbers and you been crooning about how awesome your numbers are but give the amount of houserules you campaigns operate on those numbers are meaningless. Yet you expect everyone to bow down to your giant numbers.

[Mr. GC]

I dunno, the Den seems about as chill with LM as with anyone else.

Perhaps now. When 1: He was siding with me. 2: The boards were not. they were coming down on him as hard as they were coming down on me. He quickly distanced himself from me because he wanted to make friends with people here. Like that would happen.

The game he keeps talking about is being run by someone else and I'm even more interested in protecting their group than myself because I can handle myself, so if someone wants to come at me for being me whatever. Other people being caught in the crossfire and targeted just for being associated with me? Not acceptable. So why am I protecting them and kicking Misty to the curb? Well there's this neat concept called loyalty to a friend... You should try it sometime.

[Orion]

Dude, Mistborn can totally be friends with us if he just stops yelling about basketweavers and tries to actually participate. Which he shows some signs of doing? I mean, given that he's throwing down a closed-book optimization challenge, he still doesn't quite get it, but at least he's got some intellectual honesty.

[Mistborn]

Listen GC your persecution complex is getting old. I have no intrest in pissing in your cheerios but if you going to make a big deal out of yourself and then not back it up with facts that this is the response your going to get from me. As long as you keep acting the way that you're acting then this is how it's going to be. I know you can actually back up your points I've seen you do it in the distant past.

If your hubris is a the point where you thing making real arguments is beneath you that frankly I'm doing you a favor by calling you out on your bullshit. Don't confuse me with the idiots here I never claimed that the rogue was good so don't lump me in with those wankers.

[Kaelik]

GC, when Mistborn was siding with you we came down hard on him because he was wrong on the internet. Everyone here has been wrong on the internet many times, so we have all been attacked by everyone else.

Get over yourself. The reason you don't fit in here but Mistborn probably will is that no one here has to brag about how awesome they are in every post.

You are projecting your own insecurity onto your opinion of him.

Copy catting is a bit annoying, but will fade with time.

[K]

It's pretty clear at this point that GC was never trolling us. He was trolling himself.

It's the only explanation for this blatant rules mistakes, his obvious mischaracterizations of everyone's motives and positions, and his unwillingness to provide any supporting evidence. He wants us to tell him that he's a bad boy who deserves punishment.

[Seerow]

It's pretty clear at this point that GC was never trolling us. He was trolling himself.

It's the only explanation for this blatant rules mistakes, his obvious mischaracterizations of everyone's motives and positions, and his unwillingness to provide any supporting evidence. He wants us to tell him that he's a bad boy who deserves punishment.

So what, he's a masochist and we're the free replacement for the hooker he can't afford?

[Mistborn]

Well it looks like I no longer have a group, unfortunate. Despite my willingness to sign of for bad gaming instead of no gaming I'll chose my principals such that they are over even good gaming any day of the week. To be honest severing my ties to GC may be a good idea.

More and more he's reminding me of someone else I used to argue with, Declan McManus. They both share the same seething hatred toward people with playstyles they dislike and the same generalized vitriol toward people they disagree with. I really hope that you made that account to go full retard GC because I'd prefer that to the alternative.

So I'll admit it I've been Poed. GC went as far to the extreme as possible with the anti-basketweaver thing and I still defended him from criticism. I guess that means I'm the one who's frozen fast this time.

[Korgan0]

Honestly, I've just been viewing this thread in the same way that one might view an incredibly melodramatic soap opera.

[Seerow]

Honestly, I've just been viewing this thread in the same way that one might view an incredibly melodramatic soap opera.

I've seen soap operas that are less melodramatic.

[Maxus]

Dammit, where's that pipe-organ-chord effect, I swear I had a link to it...

[MGuy]

Honestly, I've just been viewing this thread in the same way that one might view an incredibly melodramatic soap opera.

Someone's sitting in the same theater I'm in.

[Avoraciopoctules]

Honestly, I've just been viewing this thread in the same way that one might view an incredibly melodramatic soap opera.

Someone's sitting in the same theater I'm in.

Quick, someone bring up dog rape or centaurs climbing stairs.

[DSMatticus]

Everytime I come back to this thread it gets weirder.

GC: Yes, most of the people here think your "HARD MODE IS THE ONLY MODE" stance is retarded, and since that's what this thread is about people argued to that effect in response. But disagreeing, no matter how passionately, isn't going to earn you anything more than transient contempt constrained to this thread. I think we disagree entirely too frequently around here to hold grudges. Now, when people disagreed with you and your go-to response was "huh, so you're a bunch of basketweavers, then?", yes. That was a fucked up move. That's bullshit pointless ad hominem that does absoluely nothing to further discussion. It was stupid, obnoxious, and assole-ish to do it at all, and it was a fantastic way to go about earning yourself everyone's lasting resentment. If not because they disagreed with you, because you were making it obvious you were perfectly satisfied to just start hurling shitty insults in lieu of making a real point.

And yes, when it turned out that after insulting basically everyone in the thread that disagreed with you for being a basketweaver that you made some very clearly suboptimal choices and we got to point them out to you, that was delicious. And yes, we have ridiculed you thoroughly for it. On one hand, you pretty much deserve it, and on the other hand I actually feel a little bad that you have flipped your shit and made a stupid drama fest. Of course, reading the actual posts where you go batshit insane and accuse Mistborn of trying to throw you under the bus so we will like him and then kicked him out of your game because INTERNET ARGUMENT immediately evaporates that sympathy. Calm the fuck down. No one's out to personally get you. You were being an asshole (that's what you are when your primary contribution to conversation is to insult everyone around you), and turnabout is both fairplay and satisfying. And if you decide to stop being an asshole and actually, I don't know, say things that matter and stop lashing out at people who disagree with you, then eventually nobody will give two shits about anything that happened in this thread.

Though, yeah; Mistborn is going to fit in better here because he actually comes off of as capable of conversation while you're hiding behind 'basketweavers, basketweavers everywhere! Oh god the basketweavery!' You're both trying way too hard, though; between the two of you I think you've mentioned the barrel of cocks more than the entire den over the past year. Let go of the cocks already, you're strangling them. Ehh, the novelty will wear off eventually.

tl;dr sure is awkward up in here.

Quick, someone bring up dog rape or centaurs climbing stairs.

A centaur was going to rape my dog once, but then he ran up some stairs.

So guys, 3d6 or 1d20?

[Maxus]

d6's hate me. I'm lucky to roll a 5.

So d20.

[Dean]

Disagreement, no matter how passionate, isn't going to earn you anything more than transient contempt constrained to this thread. I think we disagree entirely too frequently around here to hold grudges.

I think that is well put. I was going to post my own flavor of that sentiment but DSMatticus has basically got it covered. There really isn't any holdover from thread to thread around here. Only in very rare cases will people cross contaminate one thread here with sentiments from another and that's generally considered poor form as well.

So don't be concerned that "This Forum" is against you because it's not. "This thread" may be but we've all been yelled at a bunch in a thread. That's pretty standard around here. Don't let it stick with you, just find some other thread and write some shit there.

[Maj]

write some shit there

I would like to suggest that in addition to writing some shit, that it please be good shit.

[Dean]

I would like to suggest that in addition to writing some shit, that it please be good shit.

Maj you're like Yoda. You want the -impossible-.

[Avoraciopoctules]

Well it looks like I no longer have a group, unfortunate. Despite my willingness to sign of for bad gaming instead of no gaming -snip-

I've got a lovely Lamentations of the Flame Princess module I've been meaning to run someday. Anybody interested in an experience that makes White Plume Mountain look friendly and reasonable?

[Mistborn]

I've got a lovely Lamentations of the Flame Princess module I've been meaning to run someday. Anybody interested in an experience that makes White Plume Mountain look friendly and reasonable?

I did say I had principals right?

So my stance on that hard mode/easy mode thing. There is a minimum threshold of optimization needed to not lose to stock mobs I think everyone can agree on that. So if people are making bad characters to the point that the DM needs to work to keep the difficulty manageable and that's bad. In that case you're making the DM work harder so you can weave baskets and that's not cool.

As for GC. If he actually wants to be liked I'm willing to bet he can win back a lot of his lost social capital if he posts his houserules on the "It's my own invention forum." Given that according to him they broaden the number of good strategies in 3.5.