Challenge the player or the character part MMMCDXLIVIVMM

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:45 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFtlDhksGHA

This video discusses D&D as a problem solving game. so PBS is the biggest Grognard... there now you dont have to say it but think.. finally maybe.

Take the example about climbing a mountain. the character had the intelligence, but when does the DM let the player play the game? because the character knows all this stuff about the world, is the DM a teacher to explain how to make the rope elevator, or should the player participate in his character?

1. 4th edition showed the lists of lists wasnt how to play by just picking options. where has the will to play the game gone?

2. where is the choke point of the game, where the player can no longer come up with any idea and the DM must give them an answer based on character knowledge?

3. what did you get from this video, and why do you think would WotC put it in their RSS feed?

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:44 am

First Challenge: Correct usage of Roman Numerals.

Leress · Post by **Leress** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:30 am

Josh_Kablack wrote:First Challenge: Correct usage of Roman Numerals.

MMMMMXLVIII

shadzar wrote:
1. 4th edition showed the lists of lists wasnt how to play by just picking options. where has the will to play the game gone?

To other games, that's why 4th was a failure.

2. where is the choke point of the game, where the player can no longer come up with any idea and the DM must give them an answer based on character knowledge?

That varies game to game.

3. what did you get from this video, and why do you think would WotC put it in their RSS feed?

I got nothing new, and it was for promotion of 5th.

K · Post by K » Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:30 am

3. WotC is desperate for press. Don't overthink it.

Desdan_Mervolam · Post by **Desdan_Mervolam** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:01 am

Why in the Nine Hells did you people respond to this? This thread, rambling pointless and leading as Shadzar ever is, should have sunk to the bottom of the forum unresponded.

Mistborn · Post by **Mistborn** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:42 am

I want to know how exactly you "challenge the player" without MTP or bullshit like making the BBEG the Riddler.

Fuchs · Post by **Fuchs** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:29 am

Lord Mistborn wrote:I want to know how exactly you "challenge the player" without MTP or bullshit like making the BBEG the Riddler.

I think some people use the combat system to challenge players in a tactical encounter.

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:38 pm

Desdan_Mervolam wrote:Why in the Nine Hells did you people respond to this? This thread,....

Because sometimes it's fun to see what happens when you fail a challenge.

Foxwarrior · Post by **Foxwarrior** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:29 pm

Lord Mistborn wrote:I want to know how exactly you "challenge the player" without MTP or bullshit like making the BBEG the Riddler.

Well, you can get the players to build an aircraft out of magic items. Really nothing much the characters can do other than save you money and parrot the players' thought processes.

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:15 pm

Lord Mistborn wrote:I want to know how exactly you "challenge the player" without MTP or bullshit like making the BBEG the Riddler.

MTP is a moot point because it will exist in ANY RPG you play. it cannot be removed.

the riddle bit is a tricky place but off the topic of the video, so i wont address it here, there is other places where riddles have been discussed to death.

remember the video is about a) social skills, and b) interaction with your surroundings. not everything in real life is presented in multiple choice with the correct answer always among them like some versino of D&D presents itself to be.

also "page 42" and the like always exists and has been discussed to death, which proves MTP is not possible unless you go for full randomization including the character actions removing players wills.

the cliff example was a good one and really isnt MTP as much as people make it out to be, or "Mother May I" as many use MTP to mean as a negative connotation for it.

the way to get rid of the "Mother/DM May I?" is to agree on a decent DM, and dont try ridiculous nonsense that you know good and well will not return the "lulz".

so imagine the cliff situation. why should a player NOT be able to try the rope elevator described in the video? if you answer: "because the books dont say anything about rope elevators", you are missing the point of the game, and the video itself.

Previn · Post by **Previn** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:31 pm

Desdan_Mervolam wrote:Why in the Nine Hells did you people respond to this? This thread, rambling pointless and leading as Shadzar ever is, should have sunk to the bottom of the forum unresponded.

I was going to respond about it having 96 views and no replies, but then decided not to. I blame Josh.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:55 am

Desdan_Mervolam wrote:Why in the Nine Hells did you people respond to this? This thread, rambling pointless and leading as Shadzar ever is, should have sunk to the bottom of the forum unresponded.

Mike Rugnetta wrote:There are some deeply ingrained stereotypes about Dungeons & Dragons, and those stereotypes usually begin and end with people shouting "NERD!!!" But the reality of the D&D universe is a whole lot more complex. Rather than being an escape from reality, D&D is actually a way to enhance some important real life skillz! It's a chance to learn problem solving, visualization, interaction, organization, people management... the list could go on and on. Plus, there are some very famous non-nerds who have declared an affinity for D&D, so best stop criticizing and join in if you want to be a successful at the game of life.

...That's why.