Pathfinder Is Still Bad

[Avoraciopoctules]

PCs often do horrible things when they think they are outclassed. Sad, but not super-surprising. Assuming I wasn't playing an evil jerk, I'd probably just bolt and leave the villagers alone in that kind of situation. Even if the vampire goes after the party again later, the chance of getting a more level-appropriate encounter with some spawn or another tier of spells available to the PCs might make a difference. It's still kind of horrible that you are sacrificing a town to buy time for your escape, but there's not much you can permanently do to a vampire at level 4.

[K]

Yeh, a level 8 vampire + a group of dominated villagers is like an EL 10 encounter for a level 4 party.

Killing some villagers and reducing the encounter to a "mere" EL 8 and making it so you can get away, and also maybe getting enough XP to get to 5th level, is the smart move.

I mean, this a party who is rocking a Dhampire Wizard.... they suck ass and should not be doing EL +4 fights and EL +6 is a death sentence.

[icyshadowlord]

I just wonder who was the dumbest fuck in that group, as in the one who suggested running away in the first place.

Then again, the DM was probably the biggest moron, with the way he calculated the vampire's abilities and whatnot.

[hogarth]

Paizo's "mythic" level playtest document is out now:

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5le ... s-Playtest

[K]

Mmm, it's like you get to gestalt your PrC, but also get stupid crazy powers to boot.

Nice to see the love that Sorcerers got.

[nockermensch]

Paizo's "mythic" level playtest document is out now:

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5le ... s-Playtest

Since I like high powered stuff I keep wanting to like this, but mythic trials are videogame Achievements and this is beyond silly.

[Juton]

If I was stupidly optimistic, I'd hope that this would be some backdoor way of powering up the martial classes. I haven't read it yet but I'm going to guess the abilities casters get are going to be a lot better than what non casters get.

[K]

Paizo's "mythic" level playtest document is out now:

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5le ... s-Playtest

Since I like high powered stuff I keep wanting to like this, but mythic trials are videogame Achievements and this is beyond silly.

Not just silly, but arbitrary. They reward good dice rolls AND sucking the DMs dick.

At least with video-game achievements you can work on them instead of having the DM make up some things that you may or may not be able to do.

For example, killing an enemy in one round with one spell is super easy for a SoD-focused caster, but the combat control guy is going to never do it if the DM picks that as one.

[virgil]

The 9th tier power is fairly close to the same power of the Tome's Revenant. Recuperation is stupidly better for casters, bringing the Frank cheat to its greatest prominence yet. The way Hubris is written, getting immunity to fear makes this 'weakness' for naught.

Component Power seems like it would be an awesome use for abusing wealth , especially with stuff like fabricate. True Archmage is the route to infinite mythic power points. A lot of the fighter-type abilities pale in comparison to getting a free spell with a boost.

One thing that I'm noticing is that a lot of the mythic talents would be nice as feats instead of what we have to deal with for feats to begin with.

So many of the trials are crappy Achievement feat malarkey.

[Slade]

One thing that I'm noticing is that a lot of the mythic talents would be nice as feats instead of what we have to deal with for feats to begin with.

So many of the trials are crappy Achievement feat malarkey.

On that Lesser ones are crappy achievements, but the Greaters seem fine.

Like in Red Hand of Doom taking out the bridge while under fire is a Greater Trial to me. You got archers on the towers shooting at you, hell hounds breathing fire, hobgoblin soldiers meleeing, a green dragon breath strafing around you (Flyby Attack), etc.

[K]

One thing that I'm noticing is that a lot of the mythic talents would be nice as feats instead of what we have to deal with for feats to begin with.

So many of the trials are crappy Achievement feat malarkey.

On that Lesser ones are crappy achievements, but the Greaters seem fine.

Like in Red Hand of Doom taking out the bridge while under fire is a Greater Trial to me. You got archers on the towers shooting at you, hell hounds breathing fire, hobgoblin soldiers meleeing, a green dragon breath strafing around you (Flyby Attack), etc.

Yeh, but Frank and I won that encounter by locking down all the shit and not being under fire at all.

Does that mean that we wouldn't get the Greater Trial because we were smart and a little lucky?

[nockermensch]

If I was stupidly optimistic, I'd hope that this would be some backdoor way of powering up the martial classes. I haven't read it yet but I'm going to guess the abilities casters get are going to be a lot better than what non casters get.

Mythic Spells (Mythic)
You have learned how to unlock the power of your spells, combining them with your mythic power.
Prerequisite: Ability to cast spells, 1st mythic tier.
Benefit: Select a number of spells equal to your mythic tier. They must have mythic enhancements and be on your list of spells known or in your spellbook. You can now use your mythic power when casting these spells. Whenever you gain a mythic tier, select a new spell to add to this list.
Special: You can select this feat multiple times. Each time you select this feat, you must select different spells.


Power Attack (Mythic)
Your attacks are truly devastating.
Prerequisite: Power Attack, 1st mythic tier.
Benefit: When you use Power Attack, you gain a +3 bonus on melee damage rolls (instead of +2). When your base attack bonus reaches +4 and every 4 points thereafter, the amount of bonus damage increases by +3 (instead of +2). In addition, the bonus damage from this feat is doubled on a critical hit.

So... Martial guy deals literally +1 damage above his non-mythical friend, while the Spellcaster guy picks among 1-10 spells to be mythically enhanced (mythical spells start by gaining +2 DC /+2 vs SR). This is what a mythically enhanced spell looks like:

INVISIBILITY
The effects of this spell can’t be detected with detect magic or other spells that detect magic auras. In addition, the invisibility can’t be penetrated or dispelled by spells of 2nd level or lower, such as see invisibility or glitterdust, though true seeing and dust of appearance can reveal your presence.
Greater: If you are at least a 3rd-tier mythic character, you can expend two additional uses of mythic power when casting this spell. In addition to the above effects, you are also undetectable by blindsense, blindsight, scent, and tremorsense.

Pathfinder joke book? Pathfinder joke book.

[Koumei]

...yeah, were I running Pathfinder, I'd kill myself probably actually look at Mythic Abilities (the good ones, anyway) and allow them to be taken as feats. For Fightery types... maybe offering entire feat chains as feats (ala Tome - or for half of them, just granting everything up-front, no scaling. "Here, you get all of the Cornugon Style feats, have fun", "Okay, you get all feats related to grappling, enjoy").

[hogarth]

So... Martial guy deals literally +1 damage above his non-mythical friend, while the Spellcaster guy picks among 1-10 spells to be mythically enhanced (mythical spells start by gaining +2 DC /+2 vs SR). This is what a mythically enhanced spell looks like:

INVISIBILITY
The effects of this spell can’t be detected with detect magic or other spells that detect magic auras. In addition, the invisibility can’t be penetrated or dispelled by spells of 2nd level or lower, such as see invisibility or glitterdust, though true seeing and dust of appearance can reveal your presence.
Greater: If you are at least a 3rd-tier mythic character, you can expend two additional uses of mythic power when casting this spell. In addition to the above effects, you are also undetectable by blindsense, blindsight, scent, and tremorsense.

Pathfinder joke book? Pathfinder joke book.

Note that mythic Power Attack, while it clearly sucks, doesn't require any mythic power uses, whereas a mythic spell requires at least one. And some mythic spells are just stupid. Would you really bother using one of your mythic power uses per day to make Cure Light Wounds heal twice as much plus one point of ability damage?

[icyshadowlord]

So, are these Mythic Level rules better or worse than the Epic Level Handbook?

I know both seriously just suck, but I was just curious about which one sucks more, and why.

[hogarth]

So, are these Mythic Level rules better or worse than the Epic Level Handbook?

I know both seriously just suck, but I was just curious about which one sucks more, and why.

They're hard to compare. But I'll go with the ELH rules sucking more because there are more of them and the variation in power level is insane (e.g. epic fighter abilities vs. epic spellcasting, or how a CR 35 creature might be a big dumb bag of hit points or it might be a level 36 spellcaster)

[ishy]

What exactly are the mythic rules supposed to do? I don't have a paizo account so I can't download them myself.
But according to that blog, they seem to just be a power up for characters, like hero points. No matter what level you are.
While something like the ELH was trying to give rules for lvl 20+, this doesn't appear to do so?

[hogarth]

What exactly are the mythic rules supposed to do? I don't have a paizo account so I can't download them myself.
But according to that blog, they seem to just be a power up for characters, like hero points. No matter what level you are.
While something like the ELH was trying to give rules for lvl 20+, this doesn't appear to do so?

Adding some mythic levels ("tiers") is like adding a template to your character, sort of. So the idea is that a level 16 character with 8 mythic tiers will be fighting CR 24 enemies, or something like that.

So in a sense it's giving you rules for ECL 20+, not level 20+.

[Slade]

What exactly are the mythic rules supposed to do? I don't have a paizo account so I can't download them myself.
But according to that blog, they seem to just be a power up for characters, like hero points. No matter what level you are.
While something like the ELH was trying to give rules for lvl 20+, this doesn't appear to do so?

Play epic pre=epic because actual epic is broken. I mean, really it is hard to balance late teens and 20 for DMs (not impossible but hard).

So if you add epic before then players can have the epic play they want at later levels with less broken.

Yeh, but Frank and I won that encounter by locking down all the shit and not being under fire at all.

Does that mean that we wouldn't get the Greater Trial because we were smart and a little lucky?

No, you still won it, you just did it with style

I do wonder how it went down. Did you somehow be undetected by the dragon?

[Ice9]

So I took a look at the Mythic rules. I wasn't at all surprised that martial classes got shafted, because - well - it's Paizo. I was somewhat surprised that even the casters barely get anything cool.

On the Archmage, for example, you've got one ability that's visibly mythic, 3-4 that could be depending on how you use them, and the rest are just numeric power-ups, ranging from useful to terrible (seriously, poorly scaling Mage Armor as a mythic ability?). Most Mythic spells are ass, dealing 3d10 damage instead of 3d6 damage and calling that mythic, for instance.


The entire thing seems to be classic Pathfinder - tons of crap stuff with a few good ones mixed in at random. If you strained through it though, there's a couple pages of cool (although not incredibly mythic) stuff in there, like the ability where you jump into the air and tackle dragons to the ground.

One thing I can't believe they missed is the "smack the ground and make an earthquake" ability. That ability is fucking "Mythic 101" - it's one of the basic ones people will spontaneously come up with if you ask them to think of mythic/legendary stuff. But hey, it's Paizo.

[Slade]

One thing I can't believe they missed is the "smack the ground and make an earthquake" ability. That ability is fucking "Mythic 101" - it's one of the basic ones people will spontaneously come up with if you ask them to think of mythic/legendary stuff. But hey, it's Paizo.

ToB and Psionics both have it already.

1/2 Giants have it as a racial power.
https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinde ... half-giant
https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinde ... rs/s/stomp
"Your foot stomp precipitates a psychokinetic shock wave that travels along the ground, toppling creatures and loose objects"

Although the power just knocks people prone and deals nonlethal.

[Ice9]

That would be ok for maybe the 1st rank Mythic ability, but by a few ranks in it should be an actual earthquake that causes actual devastation. To a city, not a small cone.

[Slade]

That would be ok for maybe the 1st rank Mythic ability, but by a few ranks in it should be an actual earthquake that causes actual devastation. To a city, not a small cone.

True, I agree if granted as Mythic power: it should increase with Mythic Tier.
Something like?
Using one of your Mythic power uses a day, you can shake the world around you. When you slam your foot or weapon unto the ground.
You can choose which effect as your Tier rises: (DC is 10+ Mythic stat mod+1/2 HD)
Tier 1: As Stomp with 30 ft area (instead of 20), caster as character level+1.
Tier 3: As Greater Stomp, caster as character level +1.
Tier 5: Earthquake as 20 ft radius otherwise as spell, caster as character level.
Tier 7: Earthquake as spell, caster as character level.
Tier 9: Earthquake has double the area and deals double damage to structures, caster as character level.

[Dean]

The simple fact that being Mythic means you get to go twice every round seems nuts to me. Also Heirophant's "Sustained by the Divine" power (or whatever it's called) is ridiculously baller

[hogarth]

The simple fact that being Mythic means you get to go twice every round seems nuts to me.

You don't. You can go twice every time you spend a mythic power point, and you have a limited number of those.

The "nuts" part is that taking an extra turn and doubling the healing of Cure Light Wounds are both supposed to be considered valuable uses of a mythic power point.