Savage Species: Fuck you, you fucking fuck.

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Ted the Flayer
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Post by Ted the Flayer »

Quick correction: The area attack feat deals "significant" damage, not "massive". Everything else stands.
Prak Anima wrote:Um, Frank, I believe you're missing the fact that the game is glorified spank material/foreplay.
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Post by Koumei »

Come on, next chapter! We need to see the rage. What is next, anyway? The magic items and nonmagical equipment (including handy alchemical crap for Rogues)? The bad prestige classes? The racial progressions? Fun With Templates?
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Post by Ted the Flayer »

Chapter 5: Equipment

You know what? I don't recall using one goddamn item out of this book I'm assuming its because they are shit. Let's see if my prediction is correct:

It starts by saying people that sell equipment to "monsters" have to deal with angry mobs and such. Considering that the DMG mentions that humans trade with orcs during times of warfare and such, I don't think that applies anymore. /sigh, I didn't buy this book for anti-monster bias.

The sidebar says something that I didn't realize and I've been playing this game for years: ghost touch weapons/armor can and do pass through solid objects when being wielded by an incorporeal creature. It's sad that I've been playing this game for longer than some of my relatives have been alive and I still don't know things.

There's a chart for sizing weapons, and for crossbows. Here's an honest question, why the fuck do they have crossbow and weapon charts when they essentially say the same thing? Seems needlessly complex to me.

Also something interesting: Having more than 2 arms lets you add an additional +1/2 of your str bonus to damage for each one past the second. A marilith with an greatsword deals 3 and 1/2 her strength bonus. Seems like a better deal than using six weapons.

Anyway, enough blabbing. time for the actual shit!

First is new types of weapons. Most are pretty standard monster weapons (thri-kreen throwing wedges and double-staves, sticks made by bat-people, metal spears for salamanders). A few stick out as being interesting-

Howler Javelins: If the target fails a reflex save (DC 16), they get a -1 to D20 rolls, or take 1d6 damage to remove the barb. They're kind of expensive (2 gp each), and they break when used, but I'm sure all of you can find a use for throwing a volley or two.

Barbed chain: It's a medium weapon that deals 2d6 damage, that's kind of rare. Not worth setting a feat on fire, but interesting.

Scissors Sword: A triple=bladed sword used by mariliths, can grapple on a critical hit. Mariliths are already grapple-oriented monsters.

Snake Chain: A weapon for medusae that doesn't require the use of arms. Seriously, someone really had a thing for the scaly little minxes in this book.
Image
Chuul Lasher: It adds a 15' range to a chuul's paralysis attack. I remember WotC tried really hard to push the Chuuls over considering it was a new to 3E monster, did it ever work? I have never used one.

The next section is special and superior items. There are some gems here.

Aboleth Mucus: Requires a touch attack and a DC 19 fortitude save, but it makes the target unable to breath air for 3 hours. So basically if you're not near water it kills you, it just takes an unrealistically long time to do so in 3E.

Breathing Mask: Lets you breath without air for 4 hours. It costs 950 gold to recharge. It is retardedly expensive for an item of its nature. Note that the weird bat people from the 3.0 adventure path get a LOT of attention in this book. Does anyone care about these guys?

There's a lot of desmodu fapping in this section, and I'm skipping it because the items are kind of boring other than the breathing mask.

For the most part, the weapons and armor are SO fucking boring that I'd rather choke on someone else's vomit rather than talk about most of them. There's a spiked gauntlet that transfers its enhancement bonus to claw attacks for cheap (it's a +2 weapon for 9k and some change, that's pretty cheap for such a thing). There's also a weapon that gives a rogue using the the ability to blink at all times which is awesome. There's a lot of weapons that grants +4 to some stat if the user is of the right type, there's a greatsword that grants +4 to int, with +2 to wis and cha as long as you're holding it in your hand (why not a staff?). All in all, they're lame, although the whip that entangles people is pretty neat.

The rings are kind of boring (a ring to grow a size, a ring to shrink a size, and a ring you don't care about), the staves are boring as always, the wondrous items are... interesting. There's a vest that gives you an extra pair of arms, but gives you -2 to all d20 rolls when you're stressed (what's with the save penalties this book is in love with? I could see getting -2 to attacks and skills when using the arms specifically, but I don't understand why it makes you more susceptible to mind control or being bit by a snake. There's a mask that lets you see invisible things and protects you from sneak attacks from rogues of less than 10 levels. There's an item that has 1d100 fake gold pieces that costs almost 5k to make. Because dicking over the players is always a popular choice. There's a glove that when wore over a forelimb gives you hands (someone call Lyra, I have a better gift for her than that horn cozy someone made her). Speaking of ponies, there's a set of horseshoes that gives a horse nightmare abilities and +10 to int. The Necklace of Natural Weapons specifies that you only multiply by the number of magical weapons the creature has (too bad the idea that "monks have one" never caught on). Although I have to say my favorite item is the Render Bait, that lets you make friends with a Grey Render. That's fucking awesome and you know it.

Next is spells, but I require much more booze to get through that, the magical item chapter was literally the most boring magical item chapter I've ever read, and magic items give me chubs. Too many of them dealt with those fucking bat people that I don't give a shit about, there's too many monster manual reprints, and most of them are just fucking boring. I know this probably wasn't my most entertaining writing in my OSSR career, but I don't have any fucking thing to work with here! Savage Species: Fuck you, you fucking fuck.
Last edited by Ted the Flayer on Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Prak Anima wrote:Um, Frank, I believe you're missing the fact that the game is glorified spank material/foreplay.
Frank Trollman wrote:I don't think that is any excuse for a game to have bad mechanics.
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Post by Koumei »

Ted the Flayer wrote:A marilith with an greatsword deals 3 and 1/2 her strength bonus. Seems like a better deal than using six weapons.
Totally. When playing Rock Paper Scissors with Maraliths, be careful, because those scissors will hurt.
The next section is special and superior items. There are some gems here.
I can't remember if it's related to the bat things or not, but they have "Acid flasks, ONLY BETTER". It's normal (or slightly better?) against fleshy stuff, but against metal, earth and stone/gem type creatures, it just gets better and better (more dice and bigger dice). Granted, 99% of what you fight will be fleshy, but I'd still recommend carrying a few so that even non Sneak Attackers can murderise golems, and Sneak Attackers with the right wand or bracers will just obliterate them.

I think it also gives us "Alchemist Fire, except Cold!"
All in all, they're lame, although the whip that entangles people is pretty neat.
Which one? There's the vine whip that entangles people, and the spiderweb whip that entangles people. D&D loves whips. Like, basic whips are shit, so it made about seven variants that aren't as shit, and several magic whips that are special in various ways, and a few prestige classes for them.

I'd give the equipment section a little bit more credit than you did, but it's not that special.
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Post by Ted the Flayer »

The assassin vine whip uses some version of entangle where you use grapple rules, and the grapple bonus is only +8. I didn't mention it because I thought it sucked.

EDIT: I missed that Delver Slime did damage to organic creatures as well. So I change my mind on the Delver Slime, it's pretty cool. I stand by my opinion that I don't really care about the alchemist's cold.

Also, anyone else think that alchemist's fire/cold/whatever should keep burning/freezing/whatever until it's put out? I always thought that was needlessly lame.
Last edited by Ted the Flayer on Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Prak Anima wrote:Um, Frank, I believe you're missing the fact that the game is glorified spank material/foreplay.
Frank Trollman wrote:I don't think that is any excuse for a game to have bad mechanics.
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Post by hogarth »

The item from Savage Species that I remember using was the sharktooth staff -- a two-handed weapon that basically gives you Improved Grab.
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Post by Ted the Flayer »

D'oh! I was going to talk about that too, I need to start putting more time into these rather than opening the book and a couple beers and doing stream of consciousness crap.

Here's a bonus:

Sharktooth Staff: In addition to giving you the improved grab, it automatically deals damage every round without making a grapple check. To be honest, this is one of the few exotic weapons worth setting a feat on fire.
Prak Anima wrote:Um, Frank, I believe you're missing the fact that the game is glorified spank material/foreplay.
Frank Trollman wrote:I don't think that is any excuse for a game to have bad mechanics.
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Post by Meikle641 »

I seem to recall the aboleth snot being decent. If you hit the target they begin to suffocate or something.
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Post by Ted the Flayer »

Chapter 6: Spells

I actually remember there being a lot of funky spells in this chapter. Many of which got reprinted in other sources, but I will give this book credit for this chapter. What can I say, I'm a bit of a sucker for spells that do weird things.

Let us crack this open then, I actually am looking forward to this and the next chapter (next chapter is prestige classes, and they're terrible enough to be freaking hilarious)

I won't mention every spell because there's a lot of them, just the ones that stick out in my mind.

First there is a handy chart of PHB spells without verbal components. Neat, I wish they'd have one for somatic components too, but it's a neat list to have. Next are spells that can be made permanent, which I have never fucked with because I don't want to spend that much gold on something that can be taken away permanently with Dispel Magic. YMMV, of course.

Awaken Undead: The first edition of the spell. This one is better than the Libris Mortis version in that this version gives the undead skills and feats. Very worthwhile to cast. Note that the sister spell, Awaken Construct does not grant feats and skill points for golems and constructs. Also an interesting note is that Awaken Undead is an [Evil] spell, while Awaken Construct is note (despite reuiring a humanoid brain as a material component!). D&D morality, I tellz you...


Blindsight: This spell is the cat's tits, I tell you. Blindsight is pretty uber, combine with Reach, Chain, and Persistent Spell for awesomeness.

Blood Wind: A spell that makes a natural attack into a ranged weapon? It has uses. Requires a full attack to use, so I can't see a druid using this when they can natural spell ranged weapons, but a monk can at least play when things are at range. It for some reason can't be used on animals (the target must have an intelligence of 4 or higher. 4 is a random-ass number to pick. Are there monsters with a 3 in int that they didn't want using this spell?)

Bridge of Sound: You make a bridge. Out of sound. It's even more retarded than what I'm making it sound like. It was reprinted in the SpC as an Illusion [Shadow] spell if I'm not mistaken, where it makes more sense.

Crawling Darkness: You make a tentacle armor. It gives you a miss chance, +4 to grapple and other skills, as well as Feather Fall. It's not a bad multi-purpose spell.

Dream Casting: It's a bit high level for what it does, but it's interesting, with one little stinker. You invade someone's dream and you get 4 effects: Fear, Charm, Rage, and... Harrow. The first three have well-defined mechanical effects, Harrow gives the target two random personality traits. And when they see you, they act "bewildered". No, I don't know what the fuck that means, maybe they meant confused? Because that would be pretty cool.

Extend tentacles: Extends your tentacle attacks. Also gives a medusa longer snakes, the scaley cutie-pies.

Flame Whips: Turns your forelimbs into flaming whips. they deal 5d6 + Caster Level, which might be shit or awesome, depending on if the attacks are ranged touch or ranged. The book doesn't say. It's 8th level, but if you have lots and lots of forelimbs this spell becomes more worth it.

Fuse Arms and Girallon's Blessing: These two spells deserve to be mentioned together. Mostly because they work best when used together. Girallon's Blessing gives you extra arms (which can cause save penalties again and can't make any attacks anyway) up to a maximum of 5 pairs, except it's limited by size, and there's no size that lets you have more than 4 pairs of arms. Fuse Arms takes your extra arms and translates it to strength bonuses, +4 for every pair fused (untyped). Make a bunch of arms and then fuse them back together.

Holy Star: Another multi-use spell. Gives you spell turning, +10 to AC, or shoots lasers, but you can only do one at a time. Very useful in a lot of different situations.

Illusory Pit: It's a permanent Silent Image that can only make a pit. I guess it could be useful to disguise an actual pit (maybe make it look like it's full of acid-breathing sharks when it's the trap door to your basement). Or maybe make it look like a root cellar when it's full of acid and acid-breathing sharks.

Improved Enlarge/ Improved reduce: I couldn't tell you what the fuck these spells do. They both make references to "As Enlarge/Reduce, except as noted above". Except there aren't any spells called enlarge or Reduce. Do they mean Enlarge/Reduce Person? Maybe this book had an improved version that didn't require it to be case on humanoids? Who knows.

Incarnate Construct: Makes a construct into a real boy. You don't want to do that. Ever. We'll be discussing this further in the Monster chapter (another one I can't wait to talk about, there's both awesome and ass-screwing going on).

Minor Servitor: Why isn't this spell core? It lets you turn your stuff into servants (walking teakettles, mops that mop the floor by itself, and so forth). Like Animate Objects, but costs EXP, is permanent, gives the objects intelligence, and is at a low, low 5th level for wizards. This is something wizards in folklore do fairly frequently, and I am disappointed that it took an obscure splat at the end of 3E's lifecycle with no reprint afterwards.

Skeletal Guard: This spell kind of pisses me off, because it's awesome sounding but like Ghoul Gauntlet it reduces the number of undead you control. You throw fingerbones down (up to 1 per level), and they spring up instantly as entire skeletons. Tell me, is that awesome, or is it THE MOST AWESOME THING EVER? Sadly, it reduces your undead controlled to 2 hd per level. LAME. Uses some 3.0-isms, but ask your DM to house-rule some sense into it, because it's AWESOME if you can use it.

Sonorous Hum: Cast this spell, and your next concentration spell will be taken over by this instead, freeing your actions while having the concentration spell. Useful to keep handy.

Spell Flower: Lets you hold the charge of different touch spells in each of your forelimbs. Could be useful in the right builds.

Vipergout: It's a 7th level spell that summons a couple of CR 1 monsters! You know how you can cast Summon Monster 3 to get a bunch of things off the Summon Monster 1 list but you never do because it's stupid? Well, this one is higher level! How the fuck did this get through?

Alright, that's enough of spells.
Last edited by Ted the Flayer on Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Prak Anima wrote:Um, Frank, I believe you're missing the fact that the game is glorified spank material/foreplay.
Frank Trollman wrote:I don't think that is any excuse for a game to have bad mechanics.
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Post by Prak »

You know what Spell Flower is great with?

Hivemind from BoVD.
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You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Ted the Flayer »

Chapter 7: Prestige Classes

This is another chapter that I have been wanting to review. There isn't a useful prestige class in this book. NONE. There's two that break the game right in half in the right hands, and the rest are indefensible from a powergaming perspective, or a roleplaying perspective. Or to justify the fact that trees died to bring them to us. If they desecrate my corpse in such a way you're goddamn right I'm coming back to haunt them.

Anyway, let's get started:

Emancipated Spawn: There is no reason to take the third level of this class. NONE. Two levels let you get back your feats, class features of one class, and some of your spells and spellcasting. The third level gives you the "bonus" if a jump in ECL. Yes, this fucking book calls it a fucking bonus. You are better off taking two levels, and taking levels in something else. Also, I've heard of an obscure build that uses two levels of this. It was a big deal at the time...

Illithid Savant: Funny how the two classes that break the game in half are right next to each other. This lets a mind flayer take class features from the brains that it had eaten. It picks up skill ranks, feats, class features, and special monster abilities. This is the closest thing to a Blue Mage that D&d has, and it has SO much potential but the system its in has wildly different and arbitrarily powerful skills/abilities in it. This class actually could be awesome if it wasn't disruptive.

Swarmshaper: This is a bug related class. Sounds cool? It's not. Or rather, getting to the cool bits requires taking a lot of levels in something you don't care about. It lets you shift into insect swarms (which a druid can do already), and at high levels lets you charm and awaken vermin (a unique ability, but lots of nothing to get there), and lets you teleport through different swarms (which seems like something that would sound cooler than what it is).

Scaled Horror: You get an accelerated version of ranger spellcasting, some decent DR/-, but the real reason you would take this class is 2 levels for improved grab and freedom of movement (that only works underwater), then you don't take any more levels.

Siren: I'll give this class a little wiggle room, because I'd say it works for what it does. It gives Harpies better singing abilities. Some of them are interesting, like the Phantasmal Killer, Flesh to Stone, and Death songs. You get the +2 to sonic attack save DC's feat, plus you get charisma bonuses (it tops out at +5 for some reason, so make sure you have an odd charisma when you go in). I'm going to take back my previous assertion that all the classes were shit, this is a great NPC monster class (although one might argue this is the book for PC monsters, so it fails on that metric).

Slaad Brooder:
Image
Is there anyone wanting to play a Slaad? Is this needed? It's a slaad, who is better at breeding. Note that the sample slaad brooder is male, and I'm pretty sure Slaad don't have genders. Also, the concept seems kind of rape-y and it squicks me out.

Survivor: You have D6 hit dice and no BaB increase. No, not like a wizard, you don't get a single point of BaB out of 5 levels. You get DR, evasion, uncanny dodge, and good saves. There is no reason to take this class, at all. You will not survive better with low HP and no armor.

Sybil: Oi vey... Alright, you get shit HP, shit BaB, shit saves, all just like a wizard. Instead of spellcasting, you get a bonus to your wisdom and intelligence score (but taking enough levels of this class for them to matter takes a shit on your spellcasting), you get the ability to cast divinations, but the subject must answer a riddle or take stat damage. You know something? No player would take this class, and if the DM simply just SAYS some random lillend or dragon or your mum has ability as an oracle they're not going to check the NPC's class features to make sure they can do it "for real". Seriously, no need to exist.

Waverider: The illustration of this is actually kind of badass. You don't think of mermaids as badass, but here you go. I wouldn't have designed her quite so wasp-waisted, but by D&D standards it's pretty good.
Image
The PrC is atually something I could see being played in a game as a PC, for a surprising change. It's kind of like being a Cavalier with a paladin's mount: you get mounted combat bonuses, you get the ability to leap out of water to attack things in the air, your 7th ability doesn't actually do anything, and at the capstone you summon water elementals because why the fuck not? My only problem is that your class abilities are based off the Jump skill. Why not Swim?

Yuan-ti Cultist: It's a cleric PrC that grants spellcasting every level, except it only grants d4 hit dice. Eventually, you'll get turned into a Yuan-Ti Abomination (Does it grant the enhanced stats and psionic abilities that they have? If so, it might be worth it). It's an odd little class.

That's it for PrC's.
Last edited by Ted the Flayer on Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Prak Anima wrote:Um, Frank, I believe you're missing the fact that the game is glorified spank material/foreplay.
Frank Trollman wrote:I don't think that is any excuse for a game to have bad mechanics.
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Post by Koumei »

Ted the Flayer wrote: Illithid Savant
IIRC, there's this hilarious thing where, if you're a SUPER EVIL mind flayer (as opposed to the normal kind) and your MC has the BoED, the upper planes can send a special clone of you (except better) after you. It has an [Ex] ability where it is 100% unaffected by anything except you.

So if you manage to kill it and eat its brains, next time Illithid Savant gives you a special ability, you take that ability and now you're the only creature that can affect you.

I'm pretty sure I read it on the WotC boards, so I'm confident there are three ways it doesn't work like that, but if so, that makes this class hilarious.

Several of the classes here were good ideas - Swarmshaper, Siren, Yuan-ti Cultist etc. Shame about execution. And were I to do a PrCl for Slaad, I'd probably make it "The weird Chaos Mutant of Giant Frog". So rather than "you're better at making weak minions", it'd be "you have more racial spell-likes and gain Giant Frog powers and even if you're a crappy Slaad, you end up casting like a Death Slaad".
Survivor:
Hilariously, as the only class with "your stats must be this LOW", it can be accessed by a first-level commoner. It's kind of funny to use on low-level opposition.
Eventually, you'll get turned into a Yuan-Ti Abomination (Does it grant the enhanced stats and psionic abilities that they have? If so, it might be worth it). It's an odd little class.
I'm pretty sure you DO get all the modifiers, but note that you have to be a proper Yuan-ti to begin with, you can't cheat your way in via an Extaminaar (LA +0) or Tainted One (LA +1).
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Post by Username17 »

The best part about Survivor is that it makes you fail its own entry requirements, which in 3rd edition technically meant it lost its own abilities. That was fixed in 3.5, but several 3.5 expansion books tried to unfix it because people are retards.

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Post by Kaelik »

FrankTrollman wrote:That was fixed in 3.5, but several 3.5 expansion books tried to unfix it because people are retards.
Wasn't one of those books Complete Divine, the one that gave a PrC that granted Divine Casting and had a pre-req of no Divine casting?
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Post by Username17 »

Kaelik wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:That was fixed in 3.5, but several 3.5 expansion books tried to unfix it because people are retards.
Wasn't one of those books Complete Divine, the one that gave a PrC that granted Divine Casting and had a pre-req of no Divine casting?
...Yes.

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Post by Koumei »

And once you un-meet the requirements, you lose the class features forever. So Ur-Priesting doesn't throw you into a paradox, it just means you lose your Ur-Priest abilities forever, fuck you.
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Post by K »

Koumei wrote:And once you un-meet the requirements, you lose the class features forever. So Ur-Priesting doesn't throw you into a paradox, it just means you lose your Ur-Priest abilities forever, fuck you.
You regain class features if you get the requirements back.

The only question is: "on what side does the infinite loop end on? Does the loop end on no class features or on getting class features despite the conflicting requirement."

Clearly, they intended people to get class features that should cause you to lose requirements, but in this case you don't. The Survivor and Ur-priest are not even the only PrCs that do this: Dragon Disciple turns you into a dragon and the requirement is that you aren't a dragon and that shit is Core.

It's actually really common. Lots of race-specific PrCs grant shapeshifting of various sorts.

On the bright side, this means that you can become an Illithid Savant as a human or anything else if you can find an Illithid Savant Emancipated Spawn who is currently in a form via it's class-based shapeshifting that can have it's brains eaten. (The logic is tortured, but it works.)

But since this is a game, I think the DM could and should just let you play an Illithid Savant from level 1 and make it balanced by only letting you pick from level-appropriate enemy powers (and nix the brain eating which is gross) and allowing some power trade-outs and upgrading for those times when you have long periods during adventures with no good powers to steal.

Yeh, I spent a lot of time thinking about how to make a Blue Mage in DnD.
Last edited by K on Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Koumei »

K wrote:You regain class features if you get the requirements back.
You'd think so, but actually, it's only Feats that "return" when you re-meet requirements (so getting bad-touched by an undead won't steal your Power Attack permanently). The books are silent on what happens if you lose class features then requalify.
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Post by Emerald »

Ted the Flayer wrote:Improved Enlarge/ Improved reduce: I couldn't tell you what the fuck these spells do. They both make references to "As Enlarge/Reduce, except as noted above". Except there aren't any spells called enlarge or Reduce. Do they mean Enlarge/Reduce Person? Maybe this book had an improved version that didn't require it to be case on humanoids? Who knows.
This is one of those problems caused by SS being a 3.0/3.5 hybrid. In 3.0, enlarge person was just enlarge, worked on creatures of any type (and objects as well), and increased things up to 150% height and 340% weight based on CL; same with reduce person/reduce, but in reverse, obviously.
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Post by K »

Koumei wrote:
K wrote:You regain class features if you get the requirements back.
You'd think so, but actually, it's only Feats that "return" when you re-meet requirements (so getting bad-touched by an undead won't steal your Power Attack permanently). The books are silent on what happens if you lose class features then requalify.
There are too many PrCs that can lose their class features for violating oaths and can get them back to say that the books are entirely silent. It's pretty safe to say that "if you no longer qualify for a class" means that you get back your features if you get the requirement since "no longer" is a period of continuing time. "Do you no longer have X?" can only be answered one way if you lost something and then got it back.

If it said something like "if you ever lose the requirement," then you'd be fucked because that's a fixed point in time. "Did you ever lose X?" is also answerable in only one way.

Otherwise, Arcane Archers and Dwarven Deenders would lose all the powers forever when they get polymorphed (not elves or dwarves when polymorphed).

(As a side note, there is an entirely valid argument that a Legacy Champion can get back the powers lost due to losing the requirements of a class since the LC simply gets all class features as if you gained a level in some other class, but they aren't abilities which are dependent on the original class but the Legacy Champion.)
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Rawbeard
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Post by Rawbeard »

Isn't that divine irony, or something? Oh wait, it's shitty rules editing, right.
Last edited by Rawbeard on Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Koumei »

Actually that's a good point. It never specifically states you don't get them back, and there are examples where it does (as you said, Code of Conduct things).
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Post by Red_Rob »

Ted the Flayer wrote:Emancipated Spawn:
Holy fuck, I just read the rules for this piece of shit. What were they thinking? How the fuck is this supposed to work:
Savage Species wrote:For example, Yvine was a 10th-level fighter who became a ghoul spawn and then was freed. He adventures as an ECL 5 character and then takes one level of emancipated spawn, becoming ECL 6. His next level is also emancipated spawn, making his ECL 7. When he next takes the 3rd level of emancipated spawn, his ECL becomes 18
(5 for ghoul + 3 for emancipated spawn + 10 for fighter).
The character jumps 11 effective levels in the space of 1? And since they already got all their class features back at level 2 they just get a bunch of hp and saves for 11 ECL? I seriously cannot see any application of this class that isn't fucked up beyond belief. How any games designer with even a modicum of rules knowledge could write that sentence and not have a "WTF have we done?" moment I don't know.
Ted the Flayer wrote:Slaad Brooder:
The fact this class is here just seems really weird to me. Isn't playing a Slaad unusual enough that you don't need to use one of only 10 Prestige classes you have room for on them? I thought the Prestige classes in this book would be concepts you could apply to a wide variety of creatures to make them more useful, like "any creature with a gaze attack" or "any creature with Natural weapons", not "Must be a Yuan-ti" or some shit.
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Post by Username17 »

Red_Rob wrote:
Ted the Flayer wrote:Emancipated Spawn:
Holy fuck, I just read the rules for this piece of shit. What were they thinking? How the fuck is this supposed to work:
Kind of like this.

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Post by Slade »

Ted the Flayer wrote: Anyway, let's get started:

Emancipated Spawn: There is no reason to take the third level of this class. NONE. Two levels let you get back your feats, class features of one class, and some of your spells and spellcasting. The third level gives you the "bonus" if a jump in ECL. Yes, this fucking book calls it a fucking bonus. You are better off taking two levels, and taking levels in something else. Also, I've heard of an obscure build that uses two levels of this. It was a big deal at the time...
Well, Say you were a 5th level wizard. By being turned into ghoul you can't cast any spells.
By being Emancipated Spawn 2 you get 1 1st, 1 2nd, 1 3rd spell/day. But if you take the 3rd level you get all the normal spells/day of a 5th level wizard. Although, I'm not sure it should be not big of a jump in ECL.

How does it work for Psionics? They use PP system not spells/day: do you just get 1 known/power level?

Slaad Brooder:
Image
Is there anyone wanting to play a Slaad? Is this needed? It's a slaad, who is better at breeding. Note that the sample slaad brooder is male, and I'm pretty sure Slaad don't have genders. Also, the concept seems kind of rape-y and it squicks me out.
Actually, you can be a human Slaad brooder... the preqs don't have Slaad in them. Think about it.
Not sure how useful though.
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