Warning Signs: Yellow Dawn - The Age of Hastur

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Ancient History
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Warning Signs: Yellow Dawn - The Age of Hastur

Post by Ancient History »

I ran across Yellow Dawn - The Age of Hastur while surfing for Lovecraftiana on the web, and it stuck out at me because I had never heard about it before, nor had several other Mythos roleplayers I know. So I decided to investigate.

Yellow Dawn is based on the work of David J. Rodger, a writer of Mythosy novels involving zombie apocalypses, cyborgs, and general cross-genre weirdness. Based on the wikipedia page history, I rather strongly suspect Rodgers wrote it himself, though I can't prove it. While ruminating on the (biased?) reviews for this game, I've been trying to figure out what this thing says about the warning signs of a bad RPG.

0) The Sell
The Earth has been ravaged by viral pathogens, the death of billions observed by the orbital colonies and deep-space habitats that were largely unaffected by the Outbreak. Terrified of infection, nobody came to help. Less than 30 percent survived the first few weeks. Then came the 2nd Wave of infection, spreading steadily outwards from the impact points, and that was when the horror really began...

YELLOW DAWN: This book is crammed with everything you will need to create characters, run scenarios and experience horror and adventure in the fictional world of David J Rodger.

FEATURES: The Influence of Hastur; Medical theories on the Infection; Zombie surges; Comprehensive scavenging system; Computer hacking and drug abuse; Non-human characters; Enhancements through cyberware and bioware; Weaponry, equipment and armour; Complex political, corporate and quasi-religious tensions; Schools of Elemental Magick, occultism, demonology, and the alien horrors of the Outer Chaos – the Cthulhu Mythos.
This is a little par for the course, though "Schools of Elemental Magick" is worth a raised eyebrow.

1) Never Heard of it Before
This doesn't mean it's bad, just that it isn't terribly popular or is really obscure. People can generally name plenty of weird games they've never played - Kult, Nephilim, Paranoia, Bunnies & Burrows, Dogs in the Vineyard, Toon, Tunnels & Trolls, etc.

2) This is Edition 2.5
Wait, what? This thing is so obscure I've never even caught a whiff of it, but it's been popular (?) enough to go through a major revision and a half?

3) Single Author
Again, not necessarily a warning sign, but generally books that are properly done have more people involved...but let's not be hasty, let's look at the interior credits...

4) Yup, Vanity Project
Not to be mean, but it's an RPG that Rodgers wrote based on his own world he's written two novels in, based on the Mythos. The interior credits have playtesters, a front cover artist, an internal illustrator, ambiguous "acknowledgements", a rambling statement on political opinions*, notes on who created what in the Mythos that Rodgers is borrowing from, a big chunk on Rodgers himself, and a dedication to his parents. Noticeably lacking: Editor.

*
A number of political, religious, racial and cultural statements are made in the Yellow Dawn rules. These are not the personal opinions of anybody involve in the production of this game. They are fictionalised opinions of the world 'to be'--following the events of Yellow Dawn. Finally this game does not endorse or condone drug abuse of any kind.
Reminder: Rodgers is the only writer on this project. That he feels a need to say that is a Warning Sign.
5) Weird Reviews
While most RPG makers would really love good reviews of their stuff, fewer than one fan in a thousand actually sets words to paper or internet, and even then reviews tend to be rather half-assed affairs, with some displaying a rather alarming lack of literacy. So actual good, well-written reviews for a product on the selling page tend to suggest the author is writing the review himself through one or more sockpuppets. I can't guarantee that's what's happening, but I also cannot figure out how the people that wrote those reviews misunderstood the star system.

6) The Preview
Okay, all that just amounts to "Okay, this is a vanity project, and maybe the author wrote some reviews and heavily cross-promotes it with his novels." That doesn't mean it's bad, we just need to look at the system and the setting - the guts of the game. But first, the forword:
Yellow Dawn is more than a role-playing game. It is a diverse world to occupy and epxlore, either as an RPG or though the raft of novels and short stories being written within it. Yellow Dawn delivers acute fear and genuine horror, but also great hope. The world of Yellow Dawn can be used as a setting for your own role-playing game; or used as a stand-alone system to run your favourite scenarios - from other RPGs - within.
Pro: Doesn't feel the need to explain what an RPG is.
Con: Pretty much everything else. I've yet to see an RPG that delivered more than a bit of anticpation or maybe a bad-touch feeling from games like FATAL.

The system itself uses standard spectrum of D&D dice (d4/6/8/10/12/20) and a roll-under percentile dice skill system. I can't tell what the rest of the system is like from the preview, but that's a little worrying - not the roll-under percentile system (that's basically ripped from Call of Cthulhu or any other percentile-skill RPG), but if you're using 2d10 for skill rolls pretty exclusively, and there's a lot of other dice listed, that suggests either a fairly idionsyncratic (i.e. lot of weird little subsystems) and/or based heavily on early D&D-based RPGs. Not a game-killer by any means but again...this has "lives in the back shelf at the game store for years" written on it. Maybe next to copies of BloodDawn.

7) Supplements
RPG Geek lists 8 supplements released in '08 and '09 - that would be for edition 2.0 I guess - and the sparsity is astounding. No owned copies, no reviews, on RPG Geek because these are all Lulu items.

While I may be wrong and this is an awesome diamond in the rough flying below most everyone's radar, I can't help but look at this book and feel I've stepped in something.
Last edited by Ancient History on Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Doctor_TOC »

First off, since it appears you're the suspicious type, I am not Dave Rodger. I am however a member of Dave Rodger's gaming group and a friend. I'm also the author of the wikipedia page that you suspected he'd written. I've contributed to quite a few others, which you'd have noticed if you'd bothered to look. I've got a fairly extensive Internet history, which you can trace quite easily if you need confirmation that I'm not a sock puppet.

I've played Yellow Dawn for going on for four years now. It's not without it's faults (the book badly needs an index) but it's a pretty good game, better than a lot of stuff on the market today.

To be honest, reading your comments makes me feel like I stepped in something. Dave is a hardworking, honest and decent guy, entirely underserving of your rather unpleasant accusations. He's a good friend and a talented writer. He self-publishes out of choice; there's been serious interest from at least one major RPG publisher while I've known him, but he's doing quite well without them and at this stage seems quite happy going his own way without compromising. It's a route that's worked quite well for several authors in the last few years, after all (David Wellington and the author of 50 Shades of Gray being notable examples). You and your gamer buddies may not have heard of him or his game because he relies on word of mouth and social networking.

And honestly, you think that clear, well-written reviews are a sign that the author himself is writing them? You haven't been looking very hard, because those reviews aren't just on Dave's site. Also, it seems like you've got what seems like a fairly low opinion of gamers. Yellow Dawn (and Call of Cthulhu before it) tends to attract literate, intelligent players. It's hardly surprising that a few of them can string a sentence or two together!

I can understand why you formed the opinion you have. I hope you can understand why I dislike seeing someone make unsupported allegations about a good friend. Dave's been featured in SFX magazine among others (easily viewable online), so don't take my word for it.

So, to sum up; yes, you're entirely wrong and this is an awesome diamond of a game flying below the radar, though hopefully it'll start to make a bigger impression soon.
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Post by Dr_Noface »

*rolls eyes*
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Post by Doctor_TOC »

*rolls 'em right back* You might need those..
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Post by name_here »

Okay, serious question: How do the people who publish RPGs online find this place so fast? Does someone refer them? Do they really have google set to tell them whenever someone mentions their game on the internet? Wouldn't that take a lot of time to sort through?

I mean, it's not implausible that they lurk here and are compelled to come out when someone mentions their game, except that most of them don't seem to be familiar with this place.
Last edited by name_here on Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Ancient History »

Doctor_TOC wrote:First off, since it appears you're the suspicious type, I am not Dave Rodger.
Good to know, but you can probably see how I might be suspicious. After all, Dave Rodger runs around with a handle not too dissimilar to yours, and most of your other edits on Wikipedia seem concerned with variant daleks.
To be honest, reading your comments makes me feel like I stepped in something. Dave is a hardworking, honest and decent guy, entirely underserving of your rather unpleasant accusations. He's a good friend and a talented writer.
Not saying he isn't any of those things. But Yellow Dawn does have a lot of hallmarks of a vanity project, and it had surprised me that I hadn't heard even a peep about it before this.
You and your gamer buddies may not have heard of him or his game because he relies on word of mouth and social networking.
Well, here's the weird thing: I have heard of him...as a novelist. Haven't read any of his work yet, but I do run across his stuff for sale on my regular trawls of Lovecraftiana and Mythosy stuff on Amazon.com, which is why I was doubly weirded out that I hadn't run across Yellow Dawn before. Before I posted this I did do a search through the Yog-Sothoth.com forums, which led to maybe half a dozen threads - all of them basically the same "WTF, has anyone heard of this?" bit. Ask your mate Dave, I know he's posted there a bit.
And honestly, you think that clear, well-written reviews are a sign that the author himself is writing them?
Sometimes, particularly if it's an obscure product, yeah. Again, in my experience very few games receive any kind of literate, solid review, no matter what the quality of the art, writing, or product of the whole. I worked as a freelancer for Shadowrun for five years with, and I don't mean to be a dick, a much larger audience than Yellow Dawn, and most of the Shadowrun products were lucky to get a coherent sentence or two on Amazon.com. So seeing a bunch of solid reviews on the Lulu page did set off small warning bells. Not saying it was Dave - might just have been his kind friends in his gamer group, or devoted fans. But it is unusual.
You haven't been looking very hard, because those reviews aren't just on Dave's site.
I wasn't pointing to Dave's site (http://www.davidjrodger.com/ everybody!)
Also, it seems like you've got what seems like a fairly low opinion of gamers. Yellow Dawn (and Call of Cthulhu before it) tends to attract literate, intelligent players. It's hardly surprising that a few of them can string a sentence or two together!
Big difference between "can" and "will."
So, to sum up; yes, you're entirely wrong and this is an awesome diamond of a game flying below the radar, though hopefully it'll start to make a bigger impression soon.
Fair enow.
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Post by Avoraciopoctules »

Does "Schools of Elemental Magick" mean Derleth-style elemental alignment for the Old Ones?

Like, can Aphoom-Zhah teach you to enchant your uzi with fire so it is Super Effective against the servants of Cyäegha, Nyogtha, Shub-Niggurath, and Tsathoggua?
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Post by Surgo »

name_here wrote:Do they really have google set to tell them whenever someone mentions their game on the internet?
Yes, they do. It's called Google Alerts.
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Post by Prak »

And it's even a fairly reasonable thing to do if you're producing content independently. My dad's an artist and has our last name on Google Alert.
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Post by Surgo »

It was Frank, IIRC, who said that it was a butthurt factory to end all butthurt factories. I'm inclined to agree with him, especially after seeing stuff like this.
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Post by erik »

Prak_Anima wrote:And it's even a fairly reasonable thing to do if you're producing content independently. My dad's an artist and has our last name on Google Alert.
And he has benefited from having done so?

All I could imagine for it being helpful is if someone one the internets says "hey I like this artist but don't know how to google search for his portfolio" and your dad anonymously pops in and says, "let me google that for you."
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Post by Nebuchadnezzar »

At a glance of some of the free stuff on the author's site, it looks like a somewhat modified BRP with a bunch of modular systems (called bolt-ons) available. There 's some fiddly stuff like dividing mass by 10 on the character sheet and changing SAN to COOL, for example, but I won't speak as to that predisposing me against it as being changes made for their own sake. The writing I saw was coherent, well laid out, and engaging.

I will say that the three reviews on lulu following the same format of having a potential tagline in quotes at the beginning of the review lead one to think that if they're not all written by the same person, they at least had input.
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Post by Vebyast »

Prak_Anima wrote:And it's even a fairly reasonable thing to do if you're producing content independently.
I write a little bit of open-source code. Occasionally people will try it out and then write about it on their blogs or on twitter or similar, sometimes including complaints or suggestions that they felt didn't merit an actual bug report or feature request. I still find those ideas useful, so I have an alert set up to tell me when people post about my software.

I also have alerts up to tell me when people mention my papers or cite me. I wish those got triggered more often. :tongue:
Last edited by Vebyast on Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Saxony »

Doctor_TOC wrote:...Dave is a hardworking, honest and decent guy, entirely underserving of your rather unpleasant accusations....
This was actually fairly entertaining in a bit of a depressive way. I'd like you to take your blatant advertising else where (preferably no where).

I guess it's nice to know there are people in the world lower on the totem pole than I.
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Post by erik »

David, seeing as how your name is our newest ID registered. For the love of Hastur, consider what good outcome you could possibly gain by posting here and then consider how likely it is that such a good outcome will occur.
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Post by Ancient History »

Keep your britches on. David registered to offer me a free review copy so I can do a proper review of the game.
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Post by Dr_Noface »

Looking forward to it.
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Post by JigokuBosatsu »

Nebuchadnezzar wrote: changing SAN to COOL
I think that change had to be made. Can change EDU to SMARTZ and LUCK to YEAHHH!!! as well?

And I do the google alerts things as well. It was kind of nice- when my last book came out, I found a a couple of independent reviews I might not have seen otherwise. I suppose there is a world of butthurt waiting for me someday, but I haven't made it there yet.
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Post by Meikle641 »

JigokuBosatsu wrote:
Nebuchadnezzar wrote: changing SAN to COOL
I think that change had to be made. Can change EDU to SMARTZ and LUCK to YEAHHH!!! as well?

And I do the google alerts things as well. It was kind of nice- when my last book came out, I found a a couple of independent reviews I might not have seen otherwise. I suppose there is a world of butthurt waiting for me someday, but I haven't made it there yet.
Shit, maybe I should use that... Hahaha.
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Post by Ancient History »

Just to post the sequel to this: Rodger sent me a copy of the game (shiny!), and I wrote up a review and sold it to The Unspeakable Oath, the quarterly-ish Cthulhu Mythos RPG publication. It was recently printed in the latest issue, #23. Rodger was fairly happy about it: http://davidjrodger.wordpress.com/2013/ ... -of-hastur
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Post by RobbyPants »

So, it looks like you can't post the review since it's included in a paid-for publication? It sounds like it's overall a positive review. Is this a good summary of how you felt?
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Post by Rawbeard »

So... AH finally sold out. :mrgreen:

Would been nice to read this review. This whole thing is just so weird.
Last edited by Rawbeard on Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Ancient History »

Oh, I sold out years ago.

I gave it six screams out of ten, which I felt was fair.
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Post by Rawbeard »

No, my world view is shattered! The last bastion of... I don't even know what... has fallen! :mrgreen:

6 out of 10 sounds solid, unless you are on Metacritic and 8 out of 10 is a massive failure. So... yeah. When I first heard about this I expected far worse.
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