4rries .... Dafuq?!

[Kaelik]

I genuinely think that trying to fight a battle against aggression and insult through the use of changing the politically correct titles for the retarded and whatnot.

I don't think that trying to change the politically correct titles for the developmentally handicapped, blacks, gays, women, ect, is not perfectly valid.

I think that doing so is completely different from arguing that words should not be used for derogatory meanings that have nothing to do with those people.

Bitch has a meaning that may not be gendered, and I am on the fence about its use. [EDITED] obviously has no non racial use, so it is straight out. My anecdotal experience with developmentally handicapped people indicates that they do not actually care about the use of the word retarded to described people who are fucking stupid, and retarded pretty obviously has a meaning, derogatory though it is, independent of those people, but I am open to changing my opinion based on more evidence. I'm leaning against [EDITED] on the same principles of which I am on the fence about bitch, but there seems to be some genuine argument about it.

But in absolutely none of those cases, do I object to changing the way we are "allowed" to refer to people from retarded to developmentally handicapped (or from retarded to mentally challenged to developmentally handicapped), from [EDITED] to black (or African-American where appropriate and preferred), or from bitch to woman. (Obviously that last one is weird, but seriously, there are people who think bitch is an appropriate thing to call all women, just in general, not when insulting them specifically for qualities which are "bitchy." As for calling them bitchy, see above.)

[Josh_Kablack]

As a straight white male.

Might I suggest:

"Honky", "Cracka", "Redneck", "Hillbilly", "White Trash", and "Breeder" - and I'm sure there are some others that can be applied, based on your nation of ancestry.

However, your general point is right on -- slurs against groups which have assimilated into the cultural mainstream tread the line between amusing and annoying while slurs against groups who have not assimilated into the cultural mainstream serves only to oppress and further divide.

[fectin]

Well, the big problem with 'retard' et al. is not that the word is appropriated as an insult, it's that the concept is. [British cigarette], [lady parts], and so forth are all appropriating transgressive language to pejorative effect.
'Retard' is (usually) actually comparing something to the actions taken by someone incapable of considering them. It's not just about picking a random, emotionally-loaded term, so switching to new terms will not solve that problem.

</armchair psychiatry>

[Stubbazubba]

Retard is one of those terms that is on a different spot on the euphemism treadmill every so many years.

[wotmaniac]

Currently working with developmentally disabled adults, here's my experience:
DD individuals (well, the ones that actually understand the word) generally don't take too well to the word "retard" (as in, you got a fucking fight on your hands); though, the "higher-functioning" individuals seem to be okay with it when directed towards non-DD people.


Side note: (at least in the state of Arizona) if you're licensed as a DD caregiver, it is technically a fucking crime to directly address a DD individual as a "retard" and such.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

I gamed with a guy that developed a learning disability after having a jagged piece of metal shoved through his eye socket into his brain. He used the term "retard" all the time.

I felt bad for him, because he could remember when he was a computer programmer before his car accident, and now the only place he could work was a place for mentally disabled adults. One that had no heat, no AC, and paid less than minimum wage (because you don't have to pay people with mental disabilities minimum wage, look it up if you don't believe me).

[zugschef]

I gamed with a guy that developed a learning disability after having a jagged piece of metal shoved through his eye socket into his brain. He used the term "retard" all the time.

I know people with maximum cutaneous pigmentation who frequently use the term "nig ger".

[Mask_De_H]

Do they use it with an "a", zugschief? It's very important to note the socio-cultural implications of as and ers.

Josh is right and he forgot "Peckerwood" for straight cis whatever whatever white people.

[Mistborn]

While this social justice derail is fascinating could we possibly get back to complaining about how terrible 4e fans are.

[Guyr Adamantine]

While this social justice derail is fascinating could we possibly get back to complaining about how terrible 4e fans are.

Playing 4e for extended periods of time shrinks your genitals. Discuss.

[ishy]

Well what part of 4e do you want to talk about?
I mean, fuck, even the wizard articles prefer talking about 3.5

We could talk about how much 4e tried to sell out to videogames and yet what are we left with today?

[nockermensch]

I played 4e once and my dog died.

[ishy]

I thought you couldn't have animal companions in 4e?

[CapnTthePirateG]

You can. They just suck.

[Foxwarrior]

Eagles can lift over a hundred pounds. Given the general lack of flight in the game, that's pretty handy.

[Koumei]

We could talk about how much 4e tried to sell out to videogames and yet what are we left with today?

And somehow it manages to be the only D&D game that doesn't actually have its own video game that theoretically uses the rules. Even Pathfailure sort of has one in the works, even though it's not looking good.

Unless you count that Flash game someone made that is "as close as you can get to 4E without actually treading on any copyrights and stuff".

[nockermensch]

We could talk about how much 4e tried to sell out to videogames and yet what are we left with today?

And somehow it manages to be the only D&D game that doesn't actually have its own video game that theoretically uses the rules. Even Pathfailure sort of has one in the works, even though it's not looking good.

I was talking about this with my gaming group another day, and the irony here is deafening.

Eagles can lift over a hundred pounds. Given the general lack of flight in the game, that's pretty handy.

I'm surprised they left weights in the game, since they removed almost everything else that allowed non-combat physical interactions.

[Foxwarrior]

Now that you mention it, I don't remember things having weights in the game, just carrying capacities.

[wotmaniac]

I had an argument several years back with a 4rry that was trying to figure out how to account for size differences for stuff like intimidation and grappling. I suggested applying a +/-4 per size category, and everyone on the thread just completely lost their shit.
There were to separate shit storms that came out of that one:
- evidently, 4 was just way too big a #; (not knowing much about 4e) I was like "okay, then make the modifier 1 or 2"; but I was still an idiot because 4 was too big ;
- I was then berated with examples of "well, that's bullshit because I know this one person who is really small but can be really scary and can kick a lot of ass" and "that's bullshit because I know this one dude that is really big but he's not scary at all and is a real pussy".

[fectin]

Well what part of 4e do you want to talk about?
I mean, fuck, even the wizard articles prefer talking about 3.5

I like the directions for use: "open and place Spell Compendium next to your Player’s Handbook and use both books’ spell lists for your character’s class to make your spell selections"

"HURR, DERRR, HOW DO I BOOK?"

[OgreBattle]

We could talk about how much 4e tried to sell out to videogames and yet what are we left with today?

And somehow it manages to be the only D&D game that doesn't actually have its own video game that theoretically uses the rules. Even Pathfailure sort of has one in the works, even though it's not looking good.

Unless you count that Flash game someone made that is "as close as you can get to 4E without actually treading on any copyrights and stuff".

There was a D&D facebook game that used lite 4e mechanics. I'm not sure if it's still around though, I remember the "use real money to purchase" currency was 'astral diamonds'

[Doom]

The lack of a 4e computer game has more to do with licensing issues with a stuggling Atari than anything else. It's a shame, too, because 4e as a computer game probably would have been pretty viable.

[Bill Bisco: Isometric Imp]

I'm amazed at how horrible the D&D division did during the 3E and 4E Era electronically. They absolutely needed a 4E game. Part of the problem was that D&D Online was loosely based on 3E and wasn't going to change and that their digital initiatives lost most of their original promises and just stuck on the Character maker for the most part.

Really really shameful, because Digital D&D is the future. It's much easier to game on a virtual TABLETOP in most situations. But alas, that's for another developer to "get"

[CapnTthePirateG]

Wasn't there some Neverwinter Nights 4e game that flopped pretty hard?

[Guyr Adamantine]

Daggerdale, I believe.