New Edition: Iconic Characters

[Username17]

If we're referencing D&D races at all, I think I'd rather reference the Yak Folk than the Giff. I mean seriously:



No contest, right?

If the Yaks are righteous enough they don't even need to have committed a crime. They could just have made a deal where they were allowed to hang out in Naraka to help some people and now the Rakshasa are holding them to it because it's funny.

-Username17

[CatharzGodfoot]

How about making gnomes an insect race? Their form would be about the same as a small human with hard shiny skin designed for articulation (because they're completely exoskeletal/endomuscular). The sin is that they were a hive mind governed by queens, and some sought individuality and procreation.

I mean, what better form for a gnome than a polished statue with jeweled eyes?

[Bigode]

LOL at dromites.



No, I wasn't serious.

OTOH, I was thinking about the sin being that they "mined" a slumbering deity*, but that's awesome.

*: before anybody asks, I had the idea today, at work; hence not having talked about it yet.

Frank: I barely even know what a giff was - do you really consider important to mind something from the distant past? But I could see either of the white races working.

[Orion]

How about Undead Bodhisattvas?

in this cosmology, being undead would be a Bad Thing -- in that it makes your quality of lfie go right down. When you're dead, something's wrong with your soul so you can't be truly happy. Plus, you'r ein permanenet violation of your dharma, can't have children, etc. So basically, you're much better off with reincarnation.

So white undead gave up their shot at a happy artferlife/reincarnation because they were just that loyal to their society. BUt thanks to some catastrophe, eventually they all died, so the entire race is made up of undead who swore their unlives to the service of the living.

Some of them have this crazy ritualistic society where they just keep going on as if their lords and amsters had just stepped out for a smoke and would be back any minute. Some abduct other humanoids and make them their pets.

There are two kinds that become adventurers. Either they go out into the world to help people or to get themselves killed.

[Cielingcat]

I don't think White gets undead at all; that's a Black thing.

[Orion]

Well my theory was that Black is about self over group, and white group over self.

So making undead slves is Black, while sacrificing your afterlife for the common good is white.

[Cielingcat]

Black is about the self, but it also has its own brand of magic that has a monopoly on necromancy.

[Bigode]

I liked it, and the fact that they're undead doesn't mean they have to be necromancers themselves. Also, with divination at white, there's a pretty damn good spot for white necromancy.

[JonSetanta]

1199323254[/unixtime]]
I'd hit it.

/d/

[Koumei]

Yak folk might have slightly stupid faces (which is more or less because the same can be said of yaks), but they're a million times better than hippo-people. Sure, the hippo kills more people per year than just about any other animal, hell, it kills more Australians (note: we don't have any here. People apparently travel overseas just for the privilege of getting killed by hippos) than any other animal. But it's still not as cool.

And I like the idea of the yak-folk or hippo-folk or whatever being righteous, but the Rakshasa screwing them over because they thought it was funny.

Djinn: Dude, they didn't even do anything wrong. Why the fuck did you do that?
Rakshasa: I did it for the lulz.

[Bigode]

Sure, the hippo kills more people per year than just about any other animal, hell, it kills more Australians (note: we don't have any here.

Are you serious? Fvck, hippos would be a plague if humanity didn't get the title ...

[Username17]

Interesting note: any particular caste (that is, a pre-made character type) is going to have a power source and a varna. Which means among other things that it has a built-in heraldry system because both source Loka and varnas have a color.

Since we're going to like Mahabarata Vedism, we don't have to worry about Sudras and Dhalit, which leaves us with just 3 varnas to worry about:

• Brahmin – “Scholars and Magicians,” the color of Brahmin varna is white.
  
• Kshatriya – “Warriors and Leaders,” the color of the Kshatriya varna is red.
  
• Vaishya – “Merchants and Artisans,” the color of the Vaishya varna is yellow.

Which means that essentially "might" flavored castes have Red in their heraldry, "Magic" flavored castes have White in their heraldry, and "Trickery" flavored castes have Yellow in their heraldry.

So Asuraloka is Blue, meaning that the Marshall caste has a caste uniform which has blue and red.
Naraka is Black, meaning that the Warlock has a caste outfit which is Black and White.
Tiryagyoni is Green, meaning that the Skin Shifter has a caste coat of arms which is Yellow and Green.

But Yâma is... Brown? It can't be White, because that's literally and importantly already taken.
Pretaloka is... Purple? I'm not even sure.

Each power source is looking to have 2 extra planars, 2 player character races, and one group of intermediates.

Asuraloka, for example, sponsors:

• Asura (giants)
  
• Dragons
  
• Merfolk
  
• Gremlins
  
• Trolls

Tiryagyoni sponsors:

• Yaksha
  
• Gandharvas
  
• Vanara
  
• Dryads
  
• Bugbears (actual bears!)

Yâma sponsors:

• Spenta
  
• Sphinxes
  
• Garudas
  
• Bodhisattvas (who started as insects?)
  
• Yak Folk (Complete with time storage)

Pretaloka sponsors:

• Djinn
  
• Naga
  
• Humans
  
• Gnomes
  
• Something

Naraka sponsors:

• Wraith
  
• Rakshasa
  
• Tieflings
  
• Hobgoblins
  
• Something

And what if Gnomes were so inquisitive that they made a deal to be allowed to explore Naraka without being forced to move on and now it's enforced on them even when they actually die?

D&D of course has a metric ass tonne of monstrous races which want inclusion. Aboleth, Kuo-Toa, Elementals, Gnolls, Formians, Sylphs, Shades, and yes... even Centaurs. As monstrous races of Pretaloka and Naraka they seriously aren't constrained by the limitations of normal playable races. They don't have to adventure with the team, so they can be big or small, or immobile, or non-standard in shape. They could be golems or the giant animals from Princess Mononoke. You know, crazy crap.

-Username17

[virgil]

I really like that idea for the gnomes.

As an aside, why are humans the ones who steal fire? From what I recall, it was the Vanara who stole flame, and even in Grecian myth someone else actually stole fire and then gave it to the humans.

I like the Kuo-Toa as you described them in the Dungeonomicon, as that's just so depressing.

Some kind of shapeshifter race would be nice to see (doppleganger, therianthrope, phasm, demon, etc), though it might be odd trying to reconcile them with a shapeshifting class if you're keeping that around. It's curse could be the fact that it is unable to ever change its dharma because its shapeshifting actually wipes them clean like an Etch-n-Sketch.

[JonSetanta]

Asuraloka has big potential as the iconic 'empire of villains' even if not intended as such, but Yama are still vague.
I'm not seeing connection between Sphinxes (Lammasu too?), Yakfolk, and holy bugpeople (Thri-Kreen or not.).

[SunTzuWarmaster]

Yes, I want a playable Centaur. Please? Centaurs kick ass, but not at crippling level adjustment. Just give them:
size: Large (Long) + all the bad things that come with it, on Strength bonus
+2 Dex
+1 to all ranged weapons
+1 to all Knowledge (astronomy)
-10 to all Craft checks with regard to creating buildings or structures
Automatic proficiency with all bow/bow-like weapons
40' movement speed.

They can be the nomadic prairie race that hunts in packs and avoids any type of organized conflict by simply running away from it. Their sin is that of thievery/covetting. Knowing the astronomy and the time to strike the gods above, they saught out a set of magical bows in order to overtake the prairie-lands from the other dominant races. Foolish and arrogant, they thought that the gods could not keep up with their speed while being pummeled with arrows. The gods chased them all day and all night with the arrows holding them at bay, but the centaurs had forgotten that the Gods above have infinite patience and would chase them to the ends of the earth. Alone and helpless, many collapsed from exhaustion only to be overtaken. As punishment, the gods cursed them to run the plains forever, and to never possess the strength or knowledge to build any permanent structure.

[CatharzGodfoot]

1199405468[/unixtime]]
But Yâma is... Brown? It can't be White, because that's literally and importantly already taken.
Pretaloka is... Purple? I'm not even sure.

There's no need to go with heraldry as stipulated in the Vedas. I'd keep the magic coloring scheme for ethos, and then use the best untaken colors for caste (purple, yellow, and probably orange).

[Crissa]

Look, centaurs can work being Medium (long) with no strength bonus (they get a carry and stability bonus for having four legs, PHB).

I don't want stats to go with races. Ever. Mechanics, please. If there's a reason a race has many of a class, then give them a stat bonus. Elsewise, no stat bonuses.

-Crissa

[angelfromanotherpin]

1199406961[/unixtime]]From what I recall, it was the Vanara who stole flame, and even in Grecian myth someone else actually stole fire and then gave it to the humans.

In many sources, Agni shows up by himself, but in the Rigveda, Agni is brought to Earth by Matarisvan (or a similar name with more accent marks). Matarisvan is a name variously identified as Agni himself, Vayu (the wind), Shiva, one of Garuda's sons, etc.

But the beneficiary of fire-stealing myths is always humans. Not centaurs, not Asuras, not dogs; humans. So the humans might have a Promethean figure they point at when interested parties come asking where they got the fire, but I'm pretty sure they did it.

[Joy_Division]

I like the idea of Centaurs or even indeed a mishmash of varios taurs as the last race. Especially if modeled after persian magi or Bhojaka

Their dharma problem could be because of not being endogamous enough. If you catch my drift.

[Koumei]

endogamous?

Anyway, I agree with the idea of stat modifiers not being attached to races. At least, the obvious "This is a player character" races. This way, any race seriously can decide to take any ability set, even if their peripheral things are slightly better for this or that.

Then again, that depends on how relevant ability scores even are - and we still don't have that set in stone. I just don't want a repeat of 3E (and earlier, presumably), where you never see an orc wizard unless the player understands that they're fucking him/herself with a rake.

[CatharzGodfoot]

Koumei:- Remember that attributes as planned are hard capped at achievable levels (18), making minor stat adjustments fairly unimportant in the long run.


As far as character race and color interact, how's about giving every race a school of their color? Every member automatically gets the first ability (or, if you want to be special, some other ability from that school), and can freely select abilities from that school in the future (paying with their class slots). That would benefit both elf rangers (acceleration) and elf necromancers (versatility).

It does mess up the standard class progression a bit, though...

[Crissa]

endogamous

-Crissa

[JonSetanta]

If classes get progressive stat bonuses that are way better than racial ones (and don't stack) then the race benefits wouldn't matter as much.
Like, +1 every level to a score appropriate to the type of class; physical for warriors, mental for casters, unless the standard was altered for more of an even spread for abilities in this setting.

[Username17]

None of the player character races would have stat modifiers at all. The fact that Gremlins are small is a special trait which is applied separately from whatever their Strength and Dexterity scores actually are.

---

In any case, there is certainly room for Centaurs being one of the monstrous races. Like Trolls or Bears, they would be large and powerful, and I'm thinking they would come in as potential opposition around level 4 or 5.

There's also room for depressing dying giant frogs of Naraka who are trying to wish everyone dead. Or tribes of Saurians, or escaped giant robots (Hinduism has giant robots by the way, that's not hyperbole on my part).

-Username17

[Koumei]

1199436417[/unixtime]]
(Hinduism has giant robots by the way, that's not hyperbole on my part).

-Username17

What. The. Fuck.

I'm not really a fan of robots in my D&D though. I never use golems, and picture them (when others use them) as being huge elementals formed from chunks of stone and held together by wisps of magic, rather than neatly sculpted robotic things.

And when people play Warforged, I inject hydrofluoric acid into their shins.

The Kuo Toa are cool, though. I'd personally like there to be (as monsters) mind flayers, insane death-cult Yuan-ti that worship huge fuck-off reptillian monsters from beyond and want them to come down and OM NOM NOM NOM everyone else, aboleths (complete with fear of the mind flayers because "one day they didn't exist, one day they did. We don't know what happened. EXPLAIN!!!"), beholders and sahuagin.

And if we can slot Mephits in, presumably as being either minor elemental creatures based on whatever colour owns those specific ones, or being Red (raw elemental little bastards who act on their whims and impulses rather than using all this "stop and think rationally" bullshit), that'd be awesome. The name isn't necessary, just the "crazy little elemental bastards" part.