Races of War

[CalibronXXX]

:jawdrop: Capn'...the Edge is explained in the first page of this very thread.

[Captain_Bleach]

Sorry, I am just used to explanations being consolidated in one place. The first page is very long, so I would have to use Ctrl+F to find what I'm looking for.

[JonSetanta]

The Edge is like the benefit of a free PHB Fighter feat; opens new opportunities, like having Improved Disarm or Improved Trip without the +4 bonus. It's conditional (whoever has higher BAB), but there's ways of steering it in your favor.
Could have sworn though that The Edge is only gained against others specifically with lower BAB or other condition such as "they have lower DEX", not against all combatants just because you beat one with higher BAB...

[SunTzuWarmaster]

There are a number of different ways to get The Edge, consolidated for her pleasure:
- Have a higher BAB (for free!)
- Hit an opponent twice, have +16 BAB, have the Combat School feat
- Fight a monster larger than you, have +6 BAB, have the Giant Slayer feat
- Have a larger Wisdom than an opponents Wisdom and Dexterity, have +1 BAB, have the Insightful Strike Feat
- Have a larger Dexterity Modifier than your opponent, have +1 BAB, have the Weapon Finesse feat
- Be at least level 13, have 4 levels in Dragon Lancer, be fighting a dragon
- have 18 ranks in Knowledge(nature), fight an opponent with less Dexterity than your ranks in Knowledge(nature), wield a Vine Shield

-----------------------The following use other feats/abilities on this site, but not in the F+K Tomes---------------------------
- have 4 ranks in climb, have higher ground than your opponent, have the Super Scaler feat

[Prak]

New Armour:

Lina Thorax
You torso is incased in 14-16 layers of linen with a leather core, and it's Greek Kevlar. Seriously.

Code: Select all

[br]AC  Max Dex  ACP  ASP[br]+4     +6     0   0[br]

BAB Benefit
+1 You gain DR 10/Bludgeoning. The Linen and Leather are pierced by arrows at point blank range, but the tip barely scratches you.


that's all I've really got... Just saw it on "Ancient Discoveries and they tested it...

[Voss]

15 odd layers, with leather at the bottom? I take it that it doesn't cover any joints whatsoever, otherwise you'd be a damn turtle. And thorax suggests that it doesn't. I think i'd be too worried about losing a limb to accept that high dex cap and 10/bludgeoning

[JonSetanta]

In any fantasy setting, I'd rather focus on not getting hit at all.

[JonSetanta]

I have a suggestion for the Tome Samurai "Kiai".

Rather than auto-crits pushing optimizers towards selecting very non-samurai weapons such as the scythe or pick, it might scale better with a bonus to damage dice similar to the Tome Barbarian, or even a set amount.
Then replace the x/day limitation with one of a 'charge time' similar to the Assassin death attack. After one round of aiming at a target, they make the Kiai (for massive damage), or maybe even just restricting the Samurai to a full-round action for it.

SunTzu's struggle in picking the right weapon pointed the flaw of Kiai out clearly, that katanas are simply subpar for this ability.

[CatharzGodfoot]

1198194606[/unixtime]]I have a suggestion for the Tome Samurai "Kiai".

Rather than auto-crits pushing optimizers towards selecting very non-samurai weapons such as the scythe or pick, it might scale better with a bonus to damage dice similar to the Tome Barbarian, or even a set amount.
Then replace the x/day limitation with one of a 'charge time' similar to the Assassin death attack. After one round of aiming at a target, they make the Kiai (for massive damage), or maybe even just restricting the Samurai to a full-round action for it.

SunTzu's struggle in picking the right weapon pointed the flaw of Kiai out clearly, that katanas are simply subpar for this ability.

Kiai has the advantage of forcing you to choose between a high-crit weapon (scythe), something that offers more versatility (spiked chain), or TWFing but not getting the 2x strength (heavy pick and kusarigama) and a tough choice for ancestral weapon.

Katanas are sub par in general, and I don't see that changing much with a change of kiai.

[Surgo]

I don't understand why the scythe or pick have to be considered "non-Samurai weapons" anyway.

[JonSetanta]

Cmon. What weapons do most people associate with samurai?
Both culturally, and in entertainment (anime, for instance)

Hell, watch Kurosawa movies.
See any scythes or picks being used, other than peasants?

Any weapon could potentially be used by samurai, but why even bother calling it such when there's no fuckin katana-optimization.

Note: this is not an invitation for yet another katana-are-godly-and-should-all-be-unstoppable-artifacts debate. I hate katanas. They're just bastard swords with flavor.
However, my argument is that this class, the Tome Samurai, encourages players to not even use katanas as the game supplies them.

[Surgo]

There's nothing you can really do to make a katana with D&D stats good anyway. Your best bet is to just make a new weapon and call it the katana.

[JonSetanta]

And what, give it crit x4?

Kiai is still broken.

[Surgo]

That doesn't really change the fact that few people would use the bastard sword anyway because it kind of sucks...

[CatharzGodfoot]

Well, it is ironic that the closest weapon to a katana in D&D, the scimitar, is actually one of the worst choices due to kiai.

[SunTzuWarmaster]

The DM-altered stats for a katana in my game are acceptable (if inferior)

1d8, 20, x3

Note: also the same as a Warhammer IIRC.

Yes, it sucks that the Samurai is getting abilities like "Subtle Cut" when Dual-Wielding Extending Light Picks (probably the mechanically optimal choice).

Perhaps a blurb about "A samurai's Kiai ability is always treated as a critical of x3, regardless of weapon chosen" or something similiar?

[CatharzGodfoot]

1198264690[/unixtime]]The DM-altered stats for a katana in my game are acceptable (if inferior)

1d8, 20, x3

Note: also the same as a Warhammer IIRC.

Yes, it sucks that the Samurai is getting abilities like "Subtle Cut" when Dual-Wielding Extending Light Picks (probably the mechanically optimal choice).

Perhaps a blurb about "A samurai's Kiai ability is always treated as a critical of x3, regardless of weapon chosen" or something similiar?

Subtle cut is an awesome feat. You need to start looking at these abilities as versatility rather than liability. Assuming you can use extending weapons, a decent choice is to focus on picks (probably 1 light and one heavy, the heavy being your ancestral weapon). On the other hand, using a single extending scythe (call it a no-daichi), you get the advantage of having all your attacks come from your ancestral weapon, 1.5x strength, and better base damage. You probably would want to use some exotic bow as well to take advantage of Subtle Cut.

Or you can accept that you won't being doing x4 damage on a kiai. If you're not using extending weapons, that can look good with your AoO options. You can still smack someone for 2d4 Dex damage and hit them with your AoOs worth of attacks at high level.

Or you can take a sub optimal weapon choice (i.e. bastard sword) and still kick ass, because parrying magic, ignoring barriers, and critting at will for x3 damage is badass. I mean, at that point you might as well go all Musashi, but there's nothing wrong with that in a fantasy RPG.

It might be worth adding a line (as in Sniper) that if your weapon gets a good threat range you increase the crit multiple on a kiai.

[JonSetanta]

Yeah I'd agree, a better fix would be to just say "Samurai gets +1 to critical threat range for slashing and piercing weapons every 5 levels"

[CatharzGodfoot]

1198270022[/unixtime]]Yeah I'd agree, a better fix would be to just say "Samurai gets +1 to critical threat range for slashing and piercing weapons every 5 levels"

Yeah, let's rape the shakuhachi-using samurai and make the pick-wielders even more deadly.

I really just meant that a greater threat range could translate directly into a greater multiplier on kiais.

[JonSetanta]

I meant the weapon must be slashing and piercing.

Then the setting would also require SunTzu's katana change.

I'm against the abuse of crit multiplier as a sure-kill, but also as an x/day ability.

[cthulhu]

1198266393[/unixtime]]

Yes, it sucks that the Samurai is getting abilities like "Subtle Cut" when Dual-Wielding Extending Light Picks (probably the mechanically optimal choice).

Perhaps a blurb about "A samurai's Kiai ability is always treated as a critical of x3, regardless of weapon chosen" or something similiar?

Subtle cut is an awesome feat. You need to start looking at these abilities as versatility rather than liability.

I read this as saying 'the name 'subtle cut' is totally stupid in the context of bashing someone with a pick axe

[Rod_the_Worm]

1154936705[/unixtime]]

Combat School [Combat]
You are a member of a completely arbitrary fighting school that has a number of recognizable signature fighting moves.
Benefits:First, name your fighting style (such as "Hammer and Anvil Technique" or "Crescent Moon Style", or "Way of the Lightning Mace"). This fighting style only works with a small list of melee weapons that you have to describe the connectedness to the DM in a half-way believable way. Now, whenever you are using that technique in melee combat, you gain a +2 bonus on attack rolls.
+1: Your immersion in your technique gives you great martial prowess, you gain a +2 to damage rolls in melee combat.
+6: When you strike your opponent with the signature moves of your fighting school in melee, they must make a Fortitude Save (DC 10 + ½ your level + your Strength bonus) or become dazed for one round.
+11: You may take 10 on attack rolls while using your special techniques. The DC to disarm you of a school appropriate weapon is increased by 4.
+16: You may add +5 to-hit on any one attack you make after the first each turn. If you hit an opponent twice in one round, all further attacks this round against that opponent are made with The Edge.

(OR, LESS POWERFUL

Subtle Cut [Combat]
You cut people so bad they have to ask you about it later.
Benefits: Any time you damage an opponent, that damage is increased by 1.
+1: As a standard action, you can make a weapon attack that also reduces a creature's movement rate. For every 5 points of damage this attack does, reduce the creature's movement by 5'. This penalties lasts until the damage is healed.
+6: As a standard action, you may make a weapon attack that also does 2d4 points of Dexterity damage.
+11: Any weapon attack that you make at this level acts as if the weapon had the wounding property.
+16: As a standard action, you may make an attack that dazes your opponent. This effect lasts one round, and has a DC of 10 + half your level + your Intelligence bonus.)

LEADS TO

Murderous Intent [Combat]
You stab people in the face.
Benefits: You may make a coup de grace as a standard action.
+1: When you kill an opponent, you gain a +2 Morale Bonus to your attack and damage rolls for 1 minute.
+6: Once per round, you may take an attack of opportunity against an opponent who is denied their Dexterity bonus to AC.
+11: You may take a Coup de Grace action against opponents who are stunned.
+16: You may take a Coup de Grace action against opponents who are dazed.

THAT IS

Coup de Grace
You may attempt to slay an opponent outright if they are helpless. As a full-round action, you may automatically hit a helpless opponent in melee range. This attack is automatically a critical hit. This action provokes an attack of opportunity.

COMBINED WITH

Insightful Strike [Combat]
You Hack people down with inherent awesomeness.
Benefits: You may use your Wisdom Modifier in place of your Strength Modifier for your melee attack rolls.
+1: Your attacks have The Edge against an opponent who has a lower Wisdom and Dexterity than your own Wisdom, regardless of relative BAB.
+6: Your melee attacks have a doubled critical threat range.
+11: You make horribly telling blows. The extra critical multiplier of your melee attacks is doubled (x2 becomes x3, x3 becomes x5, and x4 becomes x7).
+16: Any Melee attack you make is considered to be made with a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus equal to your Wisdom Modifier (if positive).

Lvl 16 half-orc barbarian - 20 base Str +4 from levels + 4 enhancement, possibly some inherent bonus too from a manual of gainful exercise, but say 28 for now. Armed with a scythe and the three feats above, major villains need to have a good chance of making DC 27 Fort saves or face very painful x7 crits. Either that or be undead .

CR 16, Fort saves, chance of being dazed per hit:
Adult gold dragon has +18 (45% chance)
Cornugon/Horned Devil has +16 (50% chance)
Planetar has +14 (60% chance)
Nightwalker is undead and therefore immune



Does Tharg the Reaper win?

[CatharzGodfoot]

Jesus, just play a Samurai.

[Rod_the_Worm]

OK, so he comes second then


Edit: could the Samurai be made less abusable by making the Kiai auto-confirm crits? That would move it away from high multipliers and actually towards the broader threat range weapons, of which the ideal one could in theory be the katana that fits the class (rivalled by scimitar and rapier).

[Captain_Bleach]

1200860925[/unixtime]]OK, so he comes second then


Edit: could the Samurai be made less abusable by making the Kiai auto-confirm crits? That would move it away from high multipliers and actually towards the broader threat range weapons, of which the ideal one could in theory be the katana that fits the class (rivalled by scimitar and rapier).

I don't see how a Samurai can be abusable in a game with Druids, Clerics, and Wish. It's fine as is.