Pathfinder Is Still Bad

MisterDee · Post by **MisterDee** » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:14 am

Fuck. I'm going to have flashbacks to Legacy of Fire again.

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:18 am

You might want to smash your head into a brick wall. That's what I plan to do, if those memories don't get wiped by tomorrow.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:01 am

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lf ... -Community

Paizo released some of their old demon art for community use to encourage more people to buy the Worldwound adventure path.

K · Post by K » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:59 am

They are going to need to do a little more than release some art. The last few adventure paths were pretty half-assed, and I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they'd burned through a substantial amount of good will.

magnuskn · Post by **magnuskn** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:46 am

Can't say I think that Reign of Winter was half-assed. The two middle modules didn't do it for me personally, but Rasputin Must Die! was excellent and the last one certainly was up to par with the other good AP finales.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:57 pm

Yeah, I really liked the Russian Time Travel path, more than I expected. I'm looking forward to the demon path because the Worldwound is a pretty big deal in the setting, but the issue has mostly been danced around in the past.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:47 am

And I just bought Worldwound Incursion today. I'm liking this path more than my modestly optimistic expectations, though I haven't gotten more than a third of the way through the book yet and am skeptical about the mythic and mass combat rules.

flare22 · Post by **flare22** » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:14 am

ooh id love to try playing in that ive got a sweet idea for a character that's perfect for a demon adventure

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:16 am

I'm tempted to run it. Have you looked at the Player's Guide?
http://paizo.com/products/btpy919c?Path ... yers-Guide

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:33 am

Demon punching should never not be fun.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:33 pm

The Mythic Adventures book for Pathfinder has come out, and it sounds like it's living up to the high standards of the Epic Handbook, with fighter types getting abilities like "slightly improved version of the Diehard feat" and casters getting abilities like "you can cast even more spells per round and you win the game".

magnuskn · Post by **magnuskn** » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:32 pm

So far I haven't seen anything which let's you cast more than twice per round (Quicken Spell already included), although you can add additional targets to single target spells and other stuff like this. But there are plenty of ways which make your spells less likely to be resisted, be it through enhanced DC's or by circumventing resistances or immunities.

Martials all get easy access to additional standard actions, so "run up and full-attack" in the same round isn't restricted to Barbarians and shapeshifters anymore. Lots of special maneuvers, but of course if you are a caster you get better ones called "mythic spells".

Mythic monsters actually seem really weak compared to what player characters can do.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:02 pm

magnuskn wrote:So far I haven't seen anything which let's you cast more than twice per round (Quicken Spell already included), although you can add additional targets to single target spells and other stuff like this.

(Okay, so I was exaggerating a bit.

)

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:52 pm

They just announced another class splat. Advanced Class Guide. Now you can play a Slayer and be a sucky Ranger/Rogue. Also, more class bloat. (Still not reaching 3.5 levels yet.)

magnuskn · Post by **magnuskn** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:16 pm

TOZ wrote:They just announced another class splat. Advanced Class Guide. Now you can play a Slayer and be a sucky Ranger/Rogue. Also, more class bloat. (Still not reaching 3.5 levels yet.)

Well, I'd wait to see what the actual Slayer looks like, before declaring it sucky. IMO, the after-core classes from Paizo heavily lean towards "better than core". Except when weighed against the core full-casters and Paladins, of course.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:18 pm

Paizo folks have claimed that there are still tons of creative ideas for brand new books...and here they are with the Advanced Player's Guide 2.

I can't complain; I liked the first APG, so the ACG should probably be decent as well. It just seems funny when they say things like "we'll publish one book on a subject and that's it!" Ultimate Magic 2, here we come...

Antariuk · Post by **Antariuk** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:07 pm

I'm amusing myself about how the old argument of Pathfinder being more balanced than 3.5 seems to have died a painful death. Maybe its because I rarely frequent d20-related gaming boards these days, but I got the impression that even hardocre Paizo fans learned their lesson of wizard>fighter somewhere between the Second Darkness AP and Ultimate Campaign

But I'm somewhat curious how the whole Mythic Adventures experiment will turn out. A whole AP hinges on how well the audience will react towards MA, and they already have two additional MA supplements in the pipeline.

Voss · Post by **Voss** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:32 pm

TOZ wrote:They just announced another class splat. Advanced Class Guide. Now you can play a Slayer and be a sucky Ranger/Rogue. Also, more class bloat. (Still not reaching 3.5 levels yet.)

They're getting close. And archetypes confuse the shit out of that, as there are pages and pages of random, trivial options that switch out for other random trivial options.

But anyway, this is supposed to add 10 'hybrid' style classes, like the Magus. Taking the total number of classes in PF to 31. (unless I'm missing some in various setting splats)

In addition to your Slayer fuckery, these are apparently confirmed:
-War Priest (Cleric / Fighter)
--Slayer (Ranger / Rogue)
--Hunter (Druid / Ranger)
--Shaman (Oracle / Witch)

So many ways to fail.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:39 pm

How is a Fighter/Cleric hybrid class conceptually distinct from a Paladin?

-Username17

zugschef · Post by **zugschef** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:00 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:How is a Fighter/Cleric hybrid class conceptually distinct from a Paladin?

Hm... Maybe because people expect a code of conduct with a paladin and not necessarily divine (spellcasting) abilities? In DnD terms it's pretty much the same, though.

Whatever · Post by **Whatever** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:12 pm

More importantly, how is a Fighter/Cleric hybrid class conceptually distinct from a cleric?

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:38 pm

Whatever wrote:More importantly, how is a Fighter/Cleric hybrid class conceptually distinct from a cleric?

Isn't it obvious? It'll have delayed casting progression and thus it'll be worse. Duh.

Seerow · Post by **Seerow** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:32 pm

Whatever wrote:More importantly, how is a Fighter/Cleric hybrid class conceptually distinct from a cleric?

A Cleric shouldn't have any martial ability at all.

Of course that hasn't been the case in D&D. But Cleric getting heavy armor, good hp, decent attack bonus, great saves, and self buffs that are exclusive to them that make them awesome are all things that just shouldn't be.

Those should be the realm of the Paladin.

Voss · Post by **Voss** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:38 pm

Given there are so many ways to do that to yourself (take levels in fighter, prestige classes, etc) that it hardly seems worth doing.

Which is the big problem, of course. Systems with a lot of classes aren't necessarily bad, but the classes need to be distinct, which none of these are. Hell, a lot of the basic classes aren't distinct enough to keep around, since you can just build 'wilderness stabby guy' out of a half-dozen classes.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:42 pm

Voss wrote: Which is the big problem, of course. Systems with a lot of classes aren't necessarily bad, but the classes need to be distinct, which none of these are. Hell, a lot of the basic classes aren't distinct enough to keep around, since you can just build 'wilderness stabby guy' out of a half-dozen classes.

So how would PF look with distinct classes in your mind?