Choosing a Time period; or People don't know history

[PhoneLobster]

Long story short, PL is completely full of shit. This never happened.

Except that time it totally did. And guess precisely WHICH poster was a prominent asshole in the ongoing mysogynist/anti-trans campaign that lead to a head in that very thread, who in fact posted a bunch of asshole bullshit in that thread.

I mean it couldn't have been Kaelik, it's out of character! And certainly he wouldn't then transparently lie about it not ever happening! I mean someone might dig the thread up and point it out, that would be SO embarrassing for him.

[codeGlaze]

around people's feelings comes from? It's a conservative strawman, and it exists solely so that conservatives can mock people for suggestions as outlandish as "we shouldn't propagate the idea that black people are all violent thugs, because it causes police to disproportionately target them and juries to disproportionately convict them and judges to disproportionately sentence them."

I'm sorry, you opened your mouth and shit fell out.

Some of the biggest problems with 'thugs' being discriminated against are probably media hype, jaded law enforcement, the terrible terrible truth behind a certain sector of our judicial system (judges who have no law background deciding... civil cases(?) ) and self-reinforcing stereotypes.

I don't know how many police officers you've known but they deal with the fucking scum of the earth on a daily basis and they see patterns. It's EXTREMELY difficult to separate yourself from the microcosm you are exposed to EVERY DAY and well... the good society around you. It doesn't matter what skin color that cop is, by the time he's 10 years in he's seeing criminals under every hoodie paired with jeans flying underneath your ass cheeks.

There's also the CULTURE that spawns, and reinforces, the stereotypes that people dislike and fear. A culture that breeds irresponsibility and violence. It's not even a skin-color thing, it's an *urban* thing.
Any British person can tell you about their Neds. (I forget the other nicknames for them) Shit, Koumei could probably cite the Australian equivalents of the tracky wearing, club swarming, violent, worthless wastes of space.

Not to mention a media that will go WAY out of it's way to incite racial tension where none should really exist. Let's touch on that Zimmerman bullshit. The guy could clearly have been promoted as being Hispanic; early news reports fucking LIGHTENED HIS SKIN TONE and created a new racial category for him. "White Hispanic".

Then you have the section of our judicial system that requires no law background to act as judge. Judges who have the power to jail you. Which DOES allow for some of your crazy-ass "the man is out to get you" shit to happen.

[DragonChild]

You know, the sheer number of blatant racists is really making me reconsider posting to the Den.

codeGlaze, the fact that "stop and frisk" laws catch white people with drugs more often then black people, yet the politicians defending them say black people aren't being targeted ENOUGH really proves that you are a worthless piece of shit.

[Kaelik]

Except that time it totally did.

Thanks PL, for linking to the thread where you throw around baseless accusations. It saves me the trouble.

As I said. What you claimed happen did not in fact happen. What happened is you threw a shit fit when people didn't cow to your will and admit to being bigots for unspecified reasons under justifications that constantly changed as it was pointed out that you and Crissa engaged in all the behaviors you pretended to detest.

[codeGlaze]

You know, the sheer number of blatant racists is really making me reconsider posting to the Den.

codeGlaze, the fact that "stop and frisk" laws catch white people with drugs more often then black people, yet the politicians defending them say black people aren't being targeted ENOUGH really proves that you are a worthless piece of shit.

Good job equating me with some (unknown) mentally challenged politician, assbag.

My entire point was that there are several points of failure that people never bother to acknowledge when it's just so much easier to scream 'THAT'S RACIST!' and then try to pigeon-hole an entire section of a population as defacto racists. Which is pretty bigoted and horrifically ill informed.

[DragonChild]

Or, you know, the fact that the media is full of racist shit and that huge sections of the population ARE racist and are blatantly open about it, and people who try to poo-poo it as "overreacting" are really just trying to cover up and defend those racists while pretending to be above it all.

[John Magnum]

Does codeGlaze seriously think that the category "White Hispanic" was invented to disparage Zimmerman?

[codeGlaze]

Or, you know, the fact that the media is full of racist shit and that huge sections of the population ARE racist and are blatantly open about it, and people who try to poo-poo it as "overreacting" are really just trying to cover up and defend those racists while pretending to be above it all.

Did you not read what I fucking said? The media is one of the WORST offenders in terms of race-baiting. FFS!

[DragonChild]

Or, you know, the fact that the media is full of racist shit and that huge sections of the population ARE racist and are blatantly open about it, and people who try to poo-poo it as "overreacting" are really just trying to cover up and defend those racists while pretending to be above it all.

Did you not read what I fucking said? The media is one of the WORST offenders in terms of race-baiting. FFS!

You portrayed it as "The news tries to make it sound like things are racist when they aren't", and not, you know "News casters openly call a black man in a suit someone who 'looks like a crack dealer' and expects to get away with it" which actually happens.

[codeGlaze]

Not to mention a media that will go WAY out of it's way to incite racial tension where none should really exist.

My intention was to convey that they make situations worse. Turning situations into white v black, or... shit, old v young. Anything to create a buzz.

[Starmaker]

I mean, I had to ask about the Asiana Airlines gaffe because my brain literally didn't understand why people were pulling out the racism card. Even after reading the explanations, I still don't get it.

"Haha *fingerpoint* people of a particular nationality have hilarious/stupid names" is racist. The vast majority of Korean names are in no way hilarious or stupid in Korean. Demanding that every single foreign name and word sound pleasing in your language or else it will be subject to scorn and ridicule is racist.

As opposed to "Dick Pound has a hilarious name", which is simply insensitive (adult people may have personal reasons for not changing their awkward names, and kids are simply victims of their parents' stupidity). Because Dick Pound is an Anglophone.

[zugschef]

Americans tend to value freedom of speech over freedom from [hate] speech.

What the *beep*?! This is a bunch of *beep*! You can't be *beep* serious!

[flare22]

Long story short, PL is completely full of shit. This never happened.

Except that time it totally did. And guess precisely WHICH poster was a prominent asshole in the ongoing mysogynist/anti-trans campaign that lead to a head in that very thread, who in fact posted a bunch of asshole bullshit in that thread.

I mean it couldn't have been Kaelik, it's out of character! And certainly he wouldn't then transparently lie about it not ever happening! I mean someone might dig the thread up and point it out, that would be SO embarrassing for him.

after reading over the thread in question I have determined poster your referring two was you that you were the asshole you were alluding to.
may be next time read through your evidence to make sure it does not paint you as a bigger asshole then the person your trying to insult.
In addition as someone who actually suffers from Tourettes I found the post you made on page six especially insensitive.

[Maj]

"Haha *fingerpoint* people of a particular nationality have hilarious/stupid names" is racist. The vast majority of Korean names are in no way hilarious or stupid in Korean. Demanding that every single foreign name and word sound pleasing in your language or else it will be subject to scorn and ridicule is racist.

As opposed to "Dick Pound has a hilarious name", which is simply insensitive (adult people may have personal reasons for not changing their awkward names, and kids are simply victims of their parents' stupidity). Because Dick Pound is an Anglophone.

And see... I don't get this at all. I don't even see how the crass jokes were saying, "Koreans have hilarious/stupid names." They weren't real names, though. They were English words mocking the pilot for his failure, just written to look like Asian names. It's like how people spell "fish," G-H-O-T-I.

What the hell Dick Pound has to do with being an Anglophone is beyond me. Hell, what the hell Dick Pound has to do with the example is also beyond me because Dick Pound is an actual person. As opposed to Ho Lee Fuk, who may or may not be a real person, but probably isn't.

Americans tend to value freedom of speech over freedom from [hate] speech.

What the *beep*?! This is a bunch of *beep*! You can't be *beep* serious!

That's ironically not hate speech. It's just profanity. I mean stuff like Westboro. What they get away with is actually illegal in many countries.

[zugschef]

Americans tend to value freedom of speech over freedom from [hate] speech.

What the *beep*?! This is a bunch of *beep*! You can't be *beep* serious!

That's ironically not hate speech. It's just profanity. I mean stuff like Westboro. What they get away with is actually illegal in many countries.

The point I wanted to make is that at least the American media doesn't value freedom of speech. Or did I get you wrong?

[Shrapnel]

Unfortunately, what classifies as hate speech as opposed to plain "offensive profanity" is a very blurred line in the US.

[RobbyPants]

"Haha *fingerpoint* people of a particular nationality have hilarious/stupid names" is racist. The vast majority of Korean names are in no way hilarious or stupid in Korean. Demanding that every single foreign name and word sound pleasing in your language or else it will be subject to scorn and ridicule is racist.

As opposed to "Dick Pound has a hilarious name", which is simply insensitive (adult people may have personal reasons for not changing their awkward names, and kids are simply victims of their parents' stupidity). Because Dick Pound is an Anglophone.

And see... I don't get this at all. I don't even see how the crass jokes were saying, "Koreans have hilarious/stupid names." They weren't real names, though. They were English words mocking the pilot for his failure, just written to look like Asian names. It's like how people spell "fish," G-H-O-T-I.

(unless I'm misreading what you're saying)

The difference here is a scenario where a real name results in a funny pun (whether it's an English joke on an American name like Dick Pound, or an English joke on an Asian name like Long Wang) or a scenario where it's a made up name that is funny in another language (like an English joke on a made-up, Asian-sounding name, like Ho Lee Fuk).

The first one is (likely unintentional) humor due to a real name. The second is an example of someone saying, "Ho Lee Fuk sounds like something an Asian might name their kid, and is funny in English", which is pretty much one step away from saying "Lol, Asians talk all stupid like ching chong chong ching ching!"; the humor is based on a cultural misunderstanding/ignorance/stereotype in this case. In the first case, it's just the end result of how names and other words are pronounced.



Also, I don't get the "fish"/G-H-O-T-I reference.

[Ancient History]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghoti

[DSMatticus]

I mean, I had to ask about the Asiana Airlines gaffe because my brain literally didn't understand why people were pulling out the racism card. Even after reading the explanations, I still don't get it.

"Haha *fingerpoint* people of a particular nationality have hilarious/stupid names" is racist. The vast majority of Korean names are in no way hilarious or stupid in Korean. Demanding that every single foreign name and word sound pleasing in your language or else it will be subject to scorn and ridicule is racist.

Wat? That's not the joke. The joke is that Korean names (or more likely, names which sound vaguely Korean to Americans who have no idea what Korean sounds like) are homophones for English words/phrases, and that makes a pun. Someone might go on to conclude from this cross-language pun that "Korean people have stupid names," but that's not the premise the joke operates on. Contrast that with jokes about racial stereotypes, which genuinely do operate on racist premises and fundamentally cannot be separated from them. That's not to say you can't broach those topics in a tasteful and constructive way, but even when you do you are still tackling the issue of how people feel about a particular group, while jokes about how Bang Ding Ow sounds maybe kinda sorta Korean and is also a comically understated onomatopoeia for an airplane crash say absolutely nothing about how people feel about Koreans.

But you can make compelling arguments that certain jokes will reinforce a preexisting racist narrative. If society already has the tendency to think Koreans/Asians are 'silly weird people,' (it does) then jokes about their language could reinforce that notion and cause problems (and probably does to some extent). But on its own, a pun that crosses a language barrier does not imply any valuation of anything and if we didn't already have that particular racial stereotype to deal with it would not be a problem. It's just an uncomfortable truth that people who are racist (overt or otherwise) will find justification for their beliefs in things that are otherwise not racist, and that can make tackling racism more difficult. People cite statistics on crime to justify the mistreatment of minorities all the time, and yet it's clear that those statistics are not racist (at least, not when accurate and truthfully represented).

Aside: humor does not imply scorn or ridicule. To use the Dick Pound example, the vast majority of the people who have laughed at his name give zero fucks about the man. They certainly don't harbor ill will towards him, and if they do, it is for some reason other than his name. Plenty of humor, even humor directed at individuals, is completely innocent.

[Maj]

The point I wanted to make is that at least the American media doesn't value freedom of speech. Or did I get you wrong?

No. I got what you said. But profanity is one of those weird cases where hate speech crosses over. Profanity is weird to me, and I don't entirely understand it.

To pull again from the Asiana case... I found it hilarious that "fuk" was OK to show on the screen at first, but once the prank was realized, ensuing coverage on other TV stations blurred out the fake name.

Ultimately, though, I don't think the media would care as much if people didn't. People who gripe to the FCC about TV shows and such have weight with media companies because the media doesn't want to lose viewers and the advertising-related revenue. If I recall correctly (and I may not), violating the decency regulations on the air will not result in jail time for anyone, but will result in fines. It's also usually back by Republicans who want to save the children.

But it's totally OK to go on TV and declare your unending hatred for X group of people. You just can't call them <insert desired expletive here>.

The second is an example of someone saying, "Ho Lee Fuk sounds like something an Asian might name their kid, and is funny in English", which is pretty much one step away from saying "Lol, Asians talk all stupid like ching chong chong ching ching!"; the humor is based on a cultural misunderstanding/ignorance/stereotype in this case.

No. The second is English dressed up to look like something else. Like a font. It just happens to be using the romanized alphabet.

[MGuy]

You know, the sheer number of blatant racists is really making me reconsider posting to the Den.

codeGlaze, the fact that "stop and frisk" laws catch white people with drugs more often then black people, yet the politicians defending them say black people aren't being targeted ENOUGH really proves that you are a worthless piece of shit.

Good job equating me with some (unknown) mentally challenged politician, assbag.

My entire point was that there are several points of failure that people never bother to acknowledge when it's just so much easier to scream 'THAT'S RACIST!' and then try to pigeon-hole an entire section of a population as defacto racists. Which is pretty bigoted and horrifically ill informed.

code, in your explanation you cited cops being racists and judges being racist as both being problems. It doesn't really matter 'why' they are racist to the people pointing out that they are. Trying to find out why is important for people trying to solve the issue or reform them but the first step to solving a problem is admitting that there is one.

[K]

Long story short, this is what a Racism Landmine field looks like. We couldn't even have a discussion about representing race/culture in a game without getting into a pointless and unproductive argument about race.

Honestly, just make your "exotic place" steampunk section of your setting a place where lizard-people or rock-men live. The line between racist parody and faithful model is so thin that you won't ever be able to see it and you'll get accused of racism regardless of your design.

[fectin]

Oh, that's been crystal clear.

Thanks for providing such an object lesson to go along with your answer.

[fbmf]

[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
I'm just not seeing in value in leaving this thread open.
[/TGFBS]