Pathfinder Is Still Bad

[K]

This seems like a weird idea -- turning an adventure path into an audiobook. Is there really an audience for that?

Now they can share their shitty writing with blind people. Hurray?

Apparently, people must be telling them that they read the adventure paths for the thrilling prose and don't use them for adventures.

In other words, lies and damned lies.

[Antariuk]

This seems like a weird idea -- turning an adventure path into an audiobook. Is there really an audience for that?

Not to mention that it is FVCKING RISE OF THE RUNELORDS again! I am completely lost on that. Why, why, why are they repeating this one AP so goddam often? The comic line? RotR. The card game? Will be RotR. Two AP's in their line are connected with RotR, not to mention the anniversary edition of RotR, although that one was ok since the original had been written under the 3.5 rules.

[hogarth]

Apparently, people must be telling them that they read the adventure paths for the thrilling prose and don't use them for adventures.

In other words, lies and damned lies.

I have no doubt that there are some people out there buying adventure paths and not getting a chance to play them. I fall in that category -- I've bought PDFs of Rappan Athuk Reloaded and War of the Burning Sky and I haven't gotten around to GMing them yet.

But it's a stretch to go from reading D&D adventures as literature to listening to someone reading fan fiction based on the same D&D adventure.

[K]

I have no doubt that there are some people out there buying adventure paths and not getting a chance to play them. I fall in that category -- I've bought PDFs of Rappan Athuk Reloaded and War of the Burning Sky and I haven't gotten around to GMing them yet.

But it's a stretch to go from reading D&D adventures as literature to listening to someone reading fan fiction based on the same D&D adventure.

Oh, I've bought a lot of adventures that I've never played and have no plan to ever play (like the whole Rise of the Runelords AP). Adventures are fun to look over from a design standpoint.

The problem is that audiobooks aren't a format for adventures. You can't look at the map, can't figure out how areas are supposed to connect to each other, and they don't stand up as prose because there are only components of a story and not a story.

Do you really want to listen to an audiobook where it's saying "Area 13b Two orcs are playing dice. AC: 13, Att: 1, Dmg: 2d4....."

Just listing the first set of monster stats will be enough to make you want to claw your own eyes out (and Paizo loves full stat-blocks like they come with blowjobs).

[Avoraciopoctules]

I have no doubt that there are some people out there buying adventure paths and not getting a chance to play them. I fall in that category -- I've bought PDFs of Rappan Athuk Reloaded and War of the Burning Sky and I haven't gotten around to GMing them yet.

But it's a stretch to go from reading D&D adventures as literature to listening to someone reading fan fiction based on the same D&D adventure.

Oh, I've bought a lot of adventures that I've never played and have no plan to ever play (like the whole Rise of the Runelords AP). Adventures are fun to look over from a design standpoint.

The problem is that audiobooks aren't a format for adventures. You can't look at the map, can't figure out how areas are supposed to connect to each other, and they don't stand up as prose because there are only components of a story and not a story.

Do you really want to listen to an audiobook where it's saying "Area 13b Two orcs are playing dice. AC: 13, Att: 1, Dmg: 2d4....."

Just listing the first set of monster stats will be enough to make you want to claw your own eyes out (and Paizo loves full stat-blocks like they come with blowjobs).

It's described as a "full-cast audiobook drama" based on the modules. Like Hogarth says, it's not an adventure, it's fanfiction.

Basically, some people at Paizo want to dress up their campaign logs and sell them.

[hogarth]

It's described as a "full-cast audiobook drama" based on the modules. Like Hogarth says, it's not an adventure, it's fanfiction.

Basically, some people at Paizo want to dress up their campaign logs and sell them.

Come to think of it, the first Dragonlance novel was basically a (terrible) DM describing the results of an adventure. And I'm sure someone, at some point in time, has listened to an audiobook version of Dragons of Autumn Twilight. So maybe there is an audience for stuff like that.

[MGuy]

It's described as a "full-cast audiobook drama" based on the modules. Like Hogarth says, it's not an adventure, it's fanfiction.

Basically, some people at Paizo want to dress up their campaign logs and sell them.

Come to think of it, the first Dragonlance novel was basically a (terrible) DM describing the results of an adventure. And I'm sure someone, at some point in time, has listened to an audiobook version of Dragons of Autumn Twilight. So maybe there is an audience for stuff like that.

I've never been too familiar with dragonlance. Are the books just stories inspired by their own games like Record of Lodoss?

[Sashi]

I've never been too familiar with dragonlance. Are the books just stories inspired by their own games like Record of Lodoss?

The first three novels are explicitly this. Which is why a lot of weird shit happens in those novels (at one point Raistlin pulls out the only scroll ever used in the entire history of the setting ... in order to Charm Person a gully dwarf)

[Chamomile]

The novels and the games split halfway through. In the giant annotated version I read in middle school, the authors mention that both the novels and the game improved significantly after this. I disagree strongly. Their ideas of drama and characterization are really stupid, but a halfway decent gaming group manages decent character interactions most of the time.

[Maxus]

They also sorta edited out the mishap. I think they said that the original game session of the first book, Tanis fumbled the staff and it fell down the well and made a loud sound and woke up the black dragon which MurderRaped all of them.

[OgreBattle]

They also sorta edited out the mishap. I think they said that the original game session of the first book, Tanis fumbled the staff and it fell down the well and made a loud sound and woke up the black dragon which MurderRaped all of them.

Riverwind had to die to make up for that.


And in Lodoss War, the "Woodchuck lolwut" ending hahah.

[FatR]

By the way, any news on that Mythic ruleset?

Is it as bad as the Epic Level Handbook, or is it even worse?

In terms of balance it is not as bad. Even if that's only because of lower overall power level.

In terms of impact on the game it is worse. ELH and Deities&Demigods had the only redeeming quality of being automatically contained to "no one cares" levels, so their negative impact on the game as a whole was relatively small, and it was relatively easy to convince people that the concept of a whole new power tier above level 20 is fucking dumb.

Mythic Rules actively shit up the main game, by introducing an arbitrary "You must have these powers to play basic high fantasy plots" distinction, that literally does nothing but segregate the setting into player zones, whose actual differences are about as meaningful as monster colorswaps in CRPG, but one of which is aribtrarily excluded from doing anything interesting or genre-apporpriate ever.

Here's a description of behavior of a mythic red dragon, an entity with the highest available Mythic power from the book:

"Their destructive impulses and wrathful fiery rampages
surprise and delight the most heinous demons. These legendary dragons demand annual royal sacrifices or tribute in slaves , and think nothing of working their underlings to death.

An older mythic red dragon spends little time out of its lair, and when it does emerge it prefers to attack humanoid settlements away from the immediate vicinity, burning down buildings , dropping peasants from great
heights , and demanding coins and other treasures . This raiding pattern makes it difficult for would-be dragonslayers to find the creature's actual lair." (c)

You might notice that this is not a slightest bit different from what an absolutely normal young red gragon does. You might also notice that motherfucking Smaug accomplished much more. (And you can bet your ass, that Smaug will be again used as the chief measuring stick for evil dragons soon enough.)

So literally the only thing the Mythic rules are supposed to do, is to contaminate the game with a "you must be this high to enter" barrier.

[hogarth]

The first three novels are explicitly this. Which is why a lot of weird shit happens in those novels (at one point Raistlin pulls out the only scroll ever used in the entire history of the setting ... in order to Charm Person a gully dwarf)

My favourite part is where they meet a giant slug and it's beating the shit out of the party because no one can consistently hit AC 0, so the DM has it get bored and wander away. That reeks of (bad) tabletop D&D to me.

[K]

I have no doubt that there are some people out there buying adventure paths and not getting a chance to play them. I fall in that category -- I've bought PDFs of Rappan Athuk Reloaded and War of the Burning Sky and I haven't gotten around to GMing them yet.

But it's a stretch to go from reading D&D adventures as literature to listening to someone reading fan fiction based on the same D&D adventure.

Oh, I've bought a lot of adventures that I've never played and have no plan to ever play (like the whole Rise of the Runelords AP). Adventures are fun to look over from a design standpoint.

The problem is that audiobooks aren't a format for adventures. You can't look at the map, can't figure out how areas are supposed to connect to each other, and they don't stand up as prose because there are only components of a story and not a story.

Do you really want to listen to an audiobook where it's saying "Area 13b Two orcs are playing dice. AC: 13, Att: 1, Dmg: 2d4....."

Just listing the first set of monster stats will be enough to make you want to claw your own eyes out (and Paizo loves full stat-blocks like they come with blowjobs).

It's described as a "full-cast audiobook drama" based on the modules. Like Hogarth says, it's not an adventure, it's fanfiction.

Basically, some people at Paizo want to dress up their campaign logs and sell them.

That sounds worse. Adventures don't have to be good to be fun to read, but stories based on adventures are usually really bad.

On the bright side, they might work as unintentional comedy.

[MGuy]

The novels and the games split halfway through. In the giant annotated version I read in middle school, the authors mention that both the novels and the game improved significantly after this. I disagree strongly. Their ideas of drama and characterization are really stupid, but a halfway decent gaming group manages decent character interactions most of the time.

Where might I find this annotated copy? I wanted to actually look at the original games that inspired lodoss so I could see how far apart they are but I gave up quickly. I'm curious and willing to flush my time down the drain to read the novels to see what they did and how it compares.

[Avoraciopoctules]

@MGuy

http://www.amazon.com/Annotated-Chronic ... 0786918705

[MGuy]

@MGuy

http://www.amazon.com/Annotated-Chronic ... 0786918705

Thank you.

[Voss]

Just wait for Tracy's proselytizing for Mormonism. It is the best part!

Seriously, he goes into a jag about how Mormonism is the only religion that believes in previous incarnations with reincarnation beliefs. It is fairly stupid and obviously wrong, but it gives you some idea of what the fuck was in his head with Paladine and company. And why they're jerks.

[Cyberzombie]

Well that site has its own problem - accessibility. Its really nice that they went to all the rouble of collecting the free stuff, but its impossible to select what you want to see. And its all in there, every single piece from every module, companion, adventure path, you name it. So when you MC says: "CRB, Ultimate Magic, and ISWG only", good luck figuring out your content. I really hope they'll do an upgrade on the sitemap so you can select content sources.

I've always wanted a checkbox to filter the garbage out. Maybe a voting system where people can vote down garbage feats/spells and you can filter it by that. The worst part of making a character for Pathfinder is sifting through all the option bloat. There's maybe 1 feat out of 10 that's worth anything.

[K]

Oh, I've bought a lot of adventures that I've never played and have no plan to ever play (like the whole Rise of the Runelords AP). Adventures are fun to look over from a design standpoint.

The problem is that audiobooks aren't a format for adventures. You can't look at the map, can't figure out how areas are supposed to connect to each other, and they don't stand up as prose because there are only components of a story and not a story.

Do you really want to listen to an audiobook where it's saying "Area 13b Two orcs are playing dice. AC: 13, Att: 1, Dmg: 2d4....."

Just listing the first set of monster stats will be enough to make you want to claw your own eyes out (and Paizo loves full stat-blocks like they come with blowjobs).

It's described as a "full-cast audiobook drama" based on the modules. Like Hogarth says, it's not an adventure, it's fanfiction.

Basically, some people at Paizo want to dress up their campaign logs and sell them.

That sounds worse. Adventures don't have to be good to be fun to read, but stories based on adventures are usually really bad.

On the bright side, they might work as unintentional comedy.

I've changed my mind. I want Rise of the Runelords audio-book fiction.

The scene where the PCs/protagonists get magic power from used dildos will be comedy gold.

[Avoraciopoctules]

Or anything associated with the hillbilly rapist ogres in Hook Mountain Massacre. Not quite LotFP territory, but close.

[MGuy]

Just wait for Tracy's proselytizing for Mormonism. It is the best part!

Seriously, he goes into a jag about how Mormonism is the only religion that believes in previous incarnations with reincarnation beliefs. It is fairly stupid and obviously wrong, but it gives you some idea of what the fuck was in his head with Paladine and company. And why they're jerks.

It'll be closer to christmas before I gift myself anything again but I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how much of a jump was made between the books and their game.Ever since I mentioned it to a friend he's been describing how fucked up Dragonlance as a setting is. All I'd heard about prior were gully dwarves, the mountain thing, and how I shouldn't ever let anyone be or play anything like a Kender ever.

[Slade]

Back to Pathfinder, they are having a playtest in October over the new Advanced Class Guide: there are 10 classes (Slayer, Bloodrager, Swashbuckler, etc). Comes out next August.

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lf ... de#discuss

Basically they are all Hybrid classes (Add Fighter and Gunslinger to get Swashbuckler: basically a Fighter with Grit mechanics that work with non-ranged weapons).
Bloodrager is base class of Rage Mage on CW as far as I can tell (hopefully less sucky).

[Corsair114]

Warpriest: Most religions have martial traditions, and warpriests are often the backbones of such orders. This mix of cleric and fighter can call upon the blessings of the gods to defeat enemies of their faiths.

Is that not just a Paladin without any asinine alignment restrictions?

[ishy]

Nah sounds like they are basically the cleric.
- Edit: possibly with the war domain.
Or a holy vindicator or maybe even a crusader