Minor game stuff from around the web for commentary...

tussock · Post by **tussock** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:18 am

You folk should know there's a link to his blog in the first post of this "minor game stuff" thread, that people here followed that link, and that he gets trackbacks for which links people came in from via blogger.

That's how he got here last time, I linked his blog. So make your sig a link to his front page, hope a few people click it now and then, and he'll be back soon enough. Hastur, Hastur, ... wait, isn't this a bad idea?

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:13 am

tussock wrote:...he gets trackback...

Yeah he was arguing that with dedication and technicalities right up until I pointed out it does not explain the times he has turned up here without link backs when his name was mentioned. Then, as with everything else he just dishonestly shut up, walked away and pretended it never happened.

He either has Google alerts, a dedicated informant, or personally lurks waiting for his name to be mentioned. The trackback shit may be true, but only in addition to something that explains the threads where he turned up on name alone, and that HAS happened.

...and he'll be back soon enough... wait, isn't this a bad idea?

I'm not sure Maxus's intention is to bring him back so much as to throw chaffe into his narcissism radar.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:04 am

Damn right it is. I'm not linking anything, I'm mentioning terms I'm sure he's watching for, and I purposefully minimized the font to make it unobtrusive to the casual glance. It's too much to hope that he'd get pinged with all 6000+ of my posts, but I post regularly so he'll get some. If another few regular posters join in, I'm pretty sure his alerts will pile up in a hurry.*

*I don't actually use Google Alerts myself, so I'm unsure of the format the notification takes.

Count Arioch the 28th · Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:35 am

I'm not sure what kind of juvenile person does something like that...

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:38 am

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:I'm not sure what kind of juvenile person does something like that...

Ones who could very plausibly have narcissistic personality disorder.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:45 am

Some people are just fucking insane.

Count Arioch the 28th · Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:55 am

-misunderstood something-

GnomeWorks · Post by **GnomeWorks** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:17 am

Kaelik wrote:Ones who could very plausibly have narcissistic personality disorder.

You know... that gets tossed around quite a bit, so I decided to do some reading on this point, just for kicks.

DSM IV-TR wrote:Diagnostic Criteria for 301.81 Narcissistic Personality Disorder

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

Requires excessive admiration

Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

I think that he has illustrated a pretty high opinion of his work in the OSR movement, so I guess that hits 1.

2 is really hard to gauge from his posts, so let's just give him the benefit of the doubt and assume it's not the case.

His tendency to jump at the chance to classify people as assholes - people like me, who said nothing horrible to him, but because I post here I become an asshole - leads me to believe that he hits 3 pretty well. Though this diagnosis seems to be looking for thinking that you're more important... let's count it as a half, because he seems to fit it if you squint at it.

I'm not sure he requires excessive admiration. You could make an argument that people who do the blogging thing are in it for exactly that, but it's become something of a ubiquitous thing, so it's really not that abnormal. I'll give him a pass.

Sense of entitlement... he definitely has a thing where he doesn't seem to hold himself to the same standards of behavior as everyone else. He'll ban you from posting on his blog if you refuse to answer direct questions, but then he'll go and do the same damn thing and apparently think nothing of it. So yeah, I'll give it to him.

Interpersonally exploitative... hard to say. But given the industry he works in, I'm going to give him a pass on this, because that seems like the kind of thing that would get you in some serious trouble in that line of work.

Lacks empathy... hard to say over the internet, but given the rarity with which that condition comes up, let's give him a pass.

He certainly seems to think that we're envious of him, given his sig. However, there is something to be said for that being a bit justified; it's not like he's a garbage-truck guy. So let's count it as a half.

Arrogance... well, he calls people assholes at the drop of a hat. However the environment here is - from his POV - kind of toxic, so that could just be a defense mechanism. Let's give him a half point again.

So, 3.5 points, from a back-of-the-napkin analysis of his behavior here on these boards and in a few select instances of which I'm aware. On the MMPI, you're probably looking at a... 60ish? If I had to guess, though I'm not sure off the top of my head if the MMPI measures for narcissistic personality disorder. Which would put him at the high end of the normal population, but still insufficient to warrant a full-on diagnosis of NPD.

There's also a number of assumptions here, because I'm honestly not aware of a wide spectrum of his behavior. I'll admit that I lean towards assuming people are "normal" until proven otherwise, when working with psychological diagnoses. If it can be demonstrated that he hits even one more of these points, though, or more demonstration of two points that I gave him half-points on, either would put me pretty well into agreement with the notion that he's got NPD.

Count Arioch the 28th · Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:28 am

What's wrong with being a garbagemen? Those guys get paid pretty good... I've actually applied several times to get on the garbage crews for the city I'm in...

GnomeWorks · Post by **GnomeWorks** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:33 am

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:What's wrong with being a garbagemen? Those guys get paid pretty good... I've actually applied several times to get on the garbage crews for the city I'm in...

Heh, they definitely do. But I imagine that people aren't exactly envious of a garbageman the same way some folks might be envious of working in the porn industry, you know?

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:34 am

His insistence that people just misunderstood and need to ask for clarification hits three pretty well in the "can only be understood by" part.

As to interpersonally exploitativeness, his repeated attempts to make us contact his players seems to fit enough for a half point at least.

GnomeWorks · Post by **GnomeWorks** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:44 am

TiaC wrote:His insistence that people just misunderstood and need to ask for clarification hits three pretty well in the "can only be understood by" part.

That's a solid point. It had slipped my mind that he does that constantly; then ignores it when they finally ask a direct question that would force his hand.

That brings us up to 4.

As to interpersonally exploitativeness, his repeated attempts to make us contact his players seems to fit enough for a half point at least.

I'm not so sure. I don't think he actually believes anyone here would do so; even if we did, it's probably a trap of some kind. So I don't think it's an honest go at interpersonal exploitation.

I think it's just a really shitty rhetoric tactic on his part, because then he can continue to tell us that his players all really enjoy his shit rulings and such, when it's nigh-impossible for us to actually corroborate that statement with real evidence.

Now if he manipulated one of his players into posting here solely for the purpose of propping him up, then that I would definitely count. But as it stands, I don't think there's enough evidence for this point.

So that leaves us at 4 out of the 5. And I guess now is a good time to point out that while the DSM really, really likes the whole "x out of y means z," these are all guidelines and sometimes people fall through the cracks, or manage to illustrate every single point of a single diagnosis while not actually having it. Psychology is a science, but doing what we're doing here - trying to diagnose a guy we've only communicated with over the internet, who's not willing to divulge personal things to us (and definitely not going to demand he does) - really is outside its specific range of efficacy.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:49 am

I'm going to disagree really hard with your prognosis in a couple places.

GnomeWorks wrote:I'm not sure he requires excessive admiration. You could make an argument that people who do the blogging thing are in it for exactly that, but it's become something of a ubiquitous thing, so it's really not that abnormal. I'll give him a pass.

His eagerness to viciously attack anyone who disagrees with his views no matter how mildly and dismiss said people as incapable of being part of any real discourse certainly at least hints at this. He needs people's adulation to feel fulfilled and so takes any dissenting voice as an attack. He warrants at least half a point on this criterion.

Interpersonally exploitative... hard to say. But given the industry he works in, I'm going to give him a pass on this, because that seems like the kind of thing that would get you in some serious trouble in that line of work.

As has been pointed out he has, multiple times, encouraged people to pester his players in the hope that said players will defend him or at least complain about the pestering. And that does seem at least a little exploitative.

He certainly seems to think that we're envious of him, given his sig. However, there is something to be said for that being a bit justified; it's not like he's a garbage-truck guy. So let's count it as a half.

I'll object on the grounds that working in the porn industry sucks.

Arrogance... well, he calls people assholes at the drop of a hat. However the environment here is - from his POV - kind of toxic, so that could just be a defense mechanism. Let's give him a half point again.

But it's not just here, remember there was a link to his blog on this board, certainly putting said blog post inside the realm of your analysis, where he literally called someone a pig fucker for... saying they would have to disagree and then proceeding to disagree with him.

GnomeWorks · Post by **GnomeWorks** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:03 am

darkmaster wrote:I'm going to disagree really hard with your prognosis in a couple places.

That's definitely fine. I'm certainly not an expert on all things Justin Bieber. I didn't post my analysis to say anyone calling him narcissistic was wrong, just wanted to get a bit of scientific rigor into the discussion.

His eagerness to viciously attack anyone who disagrees with his views no matter how mildly and dismiss said people as incapable of being part of any real discourse certainly at least hints at this. He needs people's adulation to feel fulfilled and so takes any dissenting voice as an attack. He warrants at least half a point on this criterion.

The problem is the second half of this statement. We have the evidence - he immediately gets aggressively defense the moment anyone questions him. But the question is why; if it's for the reason you posit, then I'm totally on board with you. But it might not be, which is why I'm hesitant.

As has been pointed out he has, multiple times, encouraged people to pester his players in the hope that said players will defend him or at least complain about the pestering. And that does seem at least a little exploitative.

Yes, but again, it may just be a really shitty rhetoric tactic, and not being intentionally exploitative. Intent matters, for which you need to be able to get inside his head - and in this environment, that's going to be really hard, for a number of reasons.

I'll object on the grounds that working in the porn industry sucks.

It really boils down to what kind of people he interacts with, and how most people react to it.

I'm pretty neutral on the topic; I'm sure it has its perks, but it probably also has some shitty elements that aren't obvious or advertised. But some people may only see the perks, and thus be jealous of him for that.

But it's not just here, remember there was a link to his blog on this board, certainly putting said blog post inside the realm of your analysis, where he literally called someone a pig fucker for... saying they would have to disagree and then proceeding to disagree with him.

Hmm... yeah, I suppose that calling that genuine arrogance is probably a fair analysis, then.

So at 4.5 out of 5 (if you go by my numbers still), that's... probably enough to say that he most likely has it, or some variant of it. I don't know if NPD has subtypes like antisocial does (my copy of the DSM does not hint at anything like that), but this would be the point where I'd start examining those in detail and figuring out which one he fits best.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:17 am

He definitely gets a full point for the envy and the arrogance. You may have missed his earlier thread about how every single ruling he ever made or would make was literally perfect and better than what any designer could possibly put in a book given time to think and test and revise - but arrogance doesn't even begin to cover it. He ascribes to himself levels of talent that it is theoretically impossible for someone to have. And he has stated repeatedly that the people calling him on his bullshit are envious because they aren't as awesome as him and don't get laid as much.

Also on the empathy thing. I don't know if you want to call his repeated attempts to get random internet acquaintances to contact and harass women who are supposed to be his friends as exploitation, but it is certainly a callous disregard for their lives and desires. He's been attempting to get his 'friends' harassed by internet kooks in order to be able to make a rhetorical point that he has friends. That's amazingly insecure of course, but it's also an amazing lack of understanding or care for the comfort of people he supposedly likes. He would be willing to give Stoya multiple creepy internet stalkers in order to prove that he has friends to some people on a message board that he doesn't know or like.

Shitmuffin totally hits the major criteria for narcissism. Now you can't really diagnose someone for psychiatric disorders over the internet. On the internet, no one knows you're a dog, and 'Zak S' could be a carefully constructed persona. But if, as seems pretty likely due to consistency and repetition, shitmuffin actually believes the things he says he believes, then narcissistic personality disorder is a very likely diagnosis.

-Username17

zugschef · Post by **zugschef** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:36 am

Or he is simply on coke, which of course doesn't rule out narcissism but could explain his behaviour on its own.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:37 am

Well, more pertinently we can't diagnose shitmuffin for narcissism because doing so would require the behavior to be present across multiple aspects of his life which we cannot actually analyze. But he certainly shows the classic signs in his internet and in that regard we can say with authority, Zak, seek psychiatric attention, it might really help you.

Stubbazubba · Post by **Stubbazubba** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:25 pm

darkmaster wrote:Zak, seek psychiatric attention, it might really help you.

Because we care, Zak. Really.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:16 pm

Another gem:

If this week has taught me anything it's that I'm doing exactly the right thing and don't need to change my behavior at all.

Cyberzombie · Post by **Cyberzombie** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:45 pm

darkmaster wrote: His eagerness to viciously attack anyone who disagrees with his views no matter how mildly and dismiss said people as incapable of being part of any real discourse certainly at least hints at this.

That applies to the majority of posters here.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:06 pm

Cyberzombie wrote:
darkmaster wrote: His eagerness to viciously attack anyone who disagrees with his views no matter how mildly and dismiss said people as incapable of being part of any real discourse certainly at least hints at this.
That applies to the majority of posters here.

My experience has been that being somewhat polite, reasonably thick-skinned, and either novel, interesting, or brief is enough to avoid that entirely.

Covent · Post by **Covent** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:13 pm

fectin wrote:
Cyberzombie wrote:
darkmaster wrote: His eagerness to viciously attack anyone who disagrees with his views no matter how mildly and dismiss said people as incapable of being part of any real discourse certainly at least hints at this.
That applies to the majority of posters here.
My experience has been that being somewhat polite, reasonably thick-skinned, and either novel, interesting, or brief is enough to avoid that entirely.

I have to agree with fectin.

I have been posting for a very short while, but even with some of the very stupid shit I have posted, people have been remarkably reasonable here.

I put it down to the fact that I know I can be full on stupid sometimes, and am willing to admit fault and my own ignorance. *Wince*

Stubbazubba · Post by **Stubbazubba** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:57 pm

Cyberzombie wrote:
darkmaster wrote: His eagerness to viciously attack anyone who disagrees with his views no matter how mildly and dismiss said people as incapable of being part of any real discourse certainly at least hints at this.
That applies to the majority of posters here.

But Zak does this everywhere else, too. I don't think that's the case for most of us.

Count Arioch the 28th · Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:21 pm

There are times when the worst of us choose not to act like assholes...

talozin · Post by **talozin** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:41 pm

fectin wrote:
Cyberzombie wrote:
darkmaster wrote: His eagerness to viciously attack anyone who disagrees with his views no matter how mildly and dismiss said people as incapable of being part of any real discourse certainly at least hints at this.
That applies to the majority of posters here.
My experience has been that being somewhat polite, reasonably thick-skinned, and either novel, interesting, or brief is enough to avoid that entirely.

I'd also advise "don't assume you're the smartest or most knowledgable guy in the room." And especially don't get all condescending when people don't agree with you.