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Shatner
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Post by Shatner »

fectin wrote:Is goblinoid a type or subtype?

You call out, "able to subsist on anything organic" as a goblinoid trait, but the various entries contradict that. What is accurate?
Goblinoid is a subtype. All goblinoids are typed as Humanoids. I do use the word "type" as well to refer to the various sorts of goblinoids (gob, hob, daibo, obo). Let me know if that's causing confusion.

I might need to tighten up the wording, but both the general and specific descriptions are supposed to be accurate. All goblinoids are able to digest and derive some measure of nutrition from almost anything organic. The Dai Bakemono and the O-Bakemono have more specialized digestive systems, so while a daibo can eat a salad, he won't like it or get as much from it as a goblin or hobgoblin. Conversely, while a goblin can eat bamboo shoots, he won't like it or get as much from it as an obo.
Last edited by Shatner on Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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momothefiddler
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Post by momothefiddler »

I really don't get why hobgoblins are part of this group at all. Their breeding is different, their coloration is different, their vision is different, and their defining trait (hierarchical) is basically completely unrelated to any of the other three. If not for the fact that they can interbreed, with odd results, I wouldn't expect them to be the same category at all. Is there a reason for this?
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Post by Shatner »

momothefiddler wrote:I really don't get why hobgoblins are part of this group at all. Their breeding is different, their coloration is different, their vision is different, and their defining trait (hierarchical) is basically completely unrelated to any of the other three. If not for the fact that they can interbreed, with odd results, I wouldn't expect them to be the same category at all. Is there a reason for this?
Hobs are the odd goblinoids out deliberately. The fact that they stand out to you is intentional because they're supposed to seem wrong. Goblinoid morphology, as well as the fact that no one much cares if a bunch of goblins go missing, means that when some evil wizard wants go all Island of Dr. Moreau, goblins are their first choice of test subjects. Conversely, if someone decides they want to create a breed of loyal servants and soldiers, goblins make a decent base stock. So the hobgoblins are included for three main reasons: because they're iconic monsters with an interesting nation-building approach, they're very definitely goblins (its even in the name), and because their weirdness is a consequence of goblinoid morphological variability.

And hobs aren't THAT different from goblinoids, they've just had their traits nailed down instead of being dictated by their environment. They're still quiet, omnivorous, orange-skinned, quick breeders, short-lived, capable of drinking hemlock, and capable of siring goblinoids both big and small. The only truly unique things about them is that the genes that were magicked into them are very recessive, and their goblinoid "goblins good, others bad" got reprogrammed into "the boss is good, others bad".

The hope is that they would be weird, but compellingly so, and are a natural result of the goblinoid morphology. I mean, mad scientists evil wizards are going to experiment on something!
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momothefiddler
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Post by momothefiddler »

Huh. Well, if it's intentional, good work.
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Post by Lokathor »

Laertes wrote:With the exception of some stuff on mining, that's basically the end of my geology knowledge. If people are interested in reading about medieval mining then I can write another monologue on it; otherwise I think those are done. I hope you enjoyed it and I hope it was applicable to your game.
Yes, the actual mining processes are probably at least as important as the geology and what you might look for.

However, going from mundane mining to magical mining would come down to be campaign setting specific and even site specific (not all sites actually have all magics). So it's probably best to have an explanation of what you do with mundane equipment, and what you'd want to do if you could but that you can't do with mundane equipment, and then we can take it from there based on location and resources.
Laertes wrote:On the other hand I have some stuff about transhumance, flood-plain agriculture, sky islands and wetland forests which I think I could write up in a similar way if anyone's interested in seeing trees and soil get the same treatment.
Agriculture would be great. Differing biomes would be really great. Perhaps some stuff on how a "dead" biome (via irradiation, evil magic, etc) would interact with nearby biomes (in terms of lack of ground cover causing more frequent mudslides, or dust storms, or whatever).
Shatner wrote:Goblinoids
So, I play a hobgoblin in a weekly game. They're one of my favorite races actually. You get to be totally sweet and japanese and have pointy ears.

Except this version of the Hobgoblin that you've come up with is just way weaker than the Tome version. And the Tome version wasn't even way fantastic or anything, just average. Immunity to Ingested Poisons (which, I'll note, is usually a signature ability of Orcs, not goblins), is simply not worth a -4 to Wisdom.

You also reduced the speed of the standard Goblin, which was one of their cool features to have as a Small creature.

Why the nerfs man?
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Post by Shatner »

Lokathor wrote:
Shatner wrote:Goblinoids
So, I play a hobgoblin in a weekly game. They're one of my favorite races actually. You get to be totally sweet and japanese and have pointy ears.

Except this version of the Hobgoblin that you've come up with is just way weaker than the Tome version. And the Tome version wasn't even way fantastic or anything, just average. Immunity to Ingested Poisons (which, I'll note, is usually a signature ability of Orcs, not goblins), is simply not worth a -4 to Wisdom.

You also reduced the speed of the standard Goblin, which was one of their cool features to have as a Small creature.

Why the nerfs man?
First off, of all the stuff in my Goblinoids post, the stats are the part I'm least invested in. I haven't actually settled on a balance point for this battery of changes so when I was sketching everything out I just went for a net +0 for stats.

Yes, the "eating anything, even poison" thing belongs to the Tome orcs. However, I have other plans for the orcs (being obligate carnivores, for one, with the many social and historical changes that would entail). Furthermore, I felt like being able to eat garbage was more appropriate for the goblinoids, given that their schtick here is the ability to live damn near anywhere.

Now, if you look back over this thread you'll know that I am totally in the pro-Hobgoblins camp. Those guys are awesome and the game should represent that. That said, I do want the hobs to have something which shows that they are easier to command. -4 wisdom got that point across mechanically, though I could have gone with a malus to resist compulsions or something else. Again, the stats are the most unpolished part of that post, so I welcome discussion on just how much the race you put on your character sheet should get you. At the moment I'm going with equal stat advantages and disadvantages, with one largish non-stat benefit and at a couple of minor but theme-rich non-stat benefits.

Concerning the goblin movement speed... I agree it's neat but them being speedy always struck me as kinda odd, or at least unexplained. It was just sort of there, I guess because they were mook-monsters for 1st level players so 10ft of move speed didn't matter either way. I figured giving them an increase of +2 con over their Tome stats along with the poison eating ability helped offset the speed loss.
Last edited by Shatner on Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Laertes »

Here's some stuff from my morning commute. It can basically be seen as the first two Elf Monologues, to complement the Dwarf ones.
Sky Islands

The mountain is high, my friend, and the desert is all about us. Let us discuss life.

To the dwarf, the stone calls. To the human, the plains are open. To the halfling, the waterways are home. Each chooses their own place of life freely and without coercion, but each asks different things of where they dwell and to each a different place responds. Each sees beauty in a different thing. Life, then, is the study of beauty. So it is with people, and so it is with all things. Pines and alders see beauty in different places and dwell in those places, just as do insects and deer and all others.

The desert is beautiful to a few: long-rooted sage which is able to quest into the aquifer for water; cactus which is able to hold water within itself. When the winter storms come then the desert blooms briefly - but fiercely! Such an explosion of life! But it does not last. Survival in the desert is no easier for plants than for people.

Where the mountains grow from the desert, a curious thing happens. Higher up the air is cooler and more moist, and so as one ascends the slope it is as if one walks northwards. From the desert one passes through scrub forest, then broadleaf forest, mixed and then montane forests, until finally one approaches the lands where snow falls in winter. The trees here are sturdy creatures, able to find beauty in the cold places, and while one loves to walk among them it is not far until one reaches the place where even they cannot grow. Here there are grasses and bushes, for while the air is cold the sun is still that of the desert below us and so life will leap to meet it, even if it is the life of the tundra. But the snow kills all, and above here we find the place where the snow lies even in summer.

Kills all, did I say? It is so, for nothing grows in this place, and yet it brings life too. The snow gathers itself into glaciers, the glaciers melt into streams, and the streams flow down the mountain to feed the life upon it. In some places it leads to rivers through the desert which bloom with life, but in others it dissipates into the aquifer. In such places, like the Tooth Mountains of which this is but the most northern outpost, the mountains are separated by desert which no people find beautiful enough to inhabit. The mountains are then not only a place of life: they are the only place of life. They are islands, and the poets call them as sky islands.
Transhumance

To the dwarf in her stone there are no seasons. To the human on her plains the seasons come and go. Winter is to be endured, summer to be celebrated. To the elf, the seasons do not bring different conditions: they bring different places.

In the winter we go down the mountain, to the low valleys where it is warm. We gather the foods of those broadleafed forests and let our animals graze in the meadows. As the spring unfolds and temperature rises, those forests above us which winter had made unappealing become pleasant. Thus it is that we rise up the mountain. In the meadows low down where we grazed our animals in winter we now plant crops, leaving them for autumn as we ascend.

The winter is longer further up the mountain, and harsher too. Yet the days are long, for the sun belongs to the desert, and so it is that those forests which are highest embrace their summer with a fierce joy. Such zest! Such colour! The flowers are the most beautiful and the fruits are the sweetest. High montane forest honey is the most pleasant you will ever taste.

In the highest summer and autumn, we let our animals graze on those meadows which lie under the snow much of the year and only become beautiful briefly. We embrace the land, and then as autumn closes we descend. Where we have planted crops we harvest them, and let our animals graze on the stubble and the grass that grows in its place.

Every season is beautiful. Every season is pleasant. The forests give us what we need, each in their own season; and when that season ends we leave. We do not outstay our welcome. Thus it is that to an elf our whole lives are beautiful, for if we do not see beauty in a place in this season, we go elsewhere and return when the season is more fitting.

If by chance we find ourselves of different tastes to our cousins, so that where they prefer cold we find ourselves drawn to warmth, then we merely go elsewhere on the same mountain. For mountains are round, and have a warm side and a cold side, where light shines more or less fiercely. Each side has its bands of forests and its zones, and we are able to choose the place which is most enjoyable to us most precisely between the two extremes. There we will find the company of others of a like mind, fellow souls drawn to long summers or crisp winters, and where once we suffered through frustration with others now we are among those of a like temperament: the folk of Summer and Winter, of Grey and of White, of Dawn and of Dusk and many more. So it is with elves: we do not seek to build beauty. We believe it exists already, and we seek to find it.
I'm not quite as happy with these as pieces of writing. That's mostly because the voice of the dwarf narrator was very negative in a way that's fun to read as he gleefully describes the horrible place he lives and abuses the listener; while the elf is written as a guy who's taught himself to ignore anything that isn't pleasant because that's what his people do. I don't want to rewrite them in the dwarf voice, but as it lets me actually use temperatures and distances and stuff, and dwell on the negatives for comedic effect, then it might be both more fun to read and more informative.
Lokathor wrote:Yes, the actual mining processes are probably at least as important as the geology and what you might look for.

However, going from mundane mining to magical mining would come down to be campaign setting specific and even site specific (not all sites actually have all magics). So it's probably best to have an explanation of what you do with mundane equipment, and what you'd want to do if you could but that you can't do with mundane equipment, and then we can take it from there based on location and resources.
I agree. I'm not really comfortable discussing D&D magic, even when (in the Dwarf Monologues) I assume there is some otherwise nobody would be able to live even a shallow distance down. However, low-magic medieval tech is something I know an, ahem, certain amount about.
Lokathor wrote:Agriculture would be great. Differing biomes would be really great. Perhaps some stuff on how a "dead" biome (via irradiation, evil magic, etc) would interact with nearby biomes (in terms of lack of ground cover causing more frequent mudslides, or dust storms, or whatever).
That all sounds good and pretty doable. I'll see if I can find a good in-character voice to discuss medieval agriculture with. As regards dead biomes - yeah, I can look into that. It's not really something I know much about but that gives me a learning opportunity.

Irradiation, though? Let me check my email. There's something I wrote for my sister for a LARP she wants to run which may be of use to you...
Big Fuckoff Nukes

Dear [Laertes's Sister],

You asked about nuclear decay products. First, however, we need to talk about nuclear blasts, because these things are awesome.

The following effects are based on the American W76 warhead, which is carried inside the Trident I and Trident II submarine-launched missiles used by the Americans and British. It's the world's most common nuclear warhead and so I use it here. The W76 has a 100kt yield.

The Trident II missile has a range of 11,000km when fired from a shallow-dived submarine, approximately a quarter of the circumference of the earth. There is no place far enough from the ocean to be safe from these things. It flies high enough to enter orbit, after which the missile body is discarded, and the eight separate reentry modules (each tipped with a W76 nuclear warhead) begin the descent towards their unsuspecting victims. The body of the missile acts as junk, reentering along with the warheads in order to confuse radar.

(This isn't to defend the missiles against being shot down - nobody has ever developed a weapon capable of shooting down a reentering warhead, and chances are that nobody ever will. This is so that it's not possible to predict its exact target.)

Let us assume that you have done something to annoy the submariners in question, and consequently all eight warheads are targeted at you. They descend very quickly, rapidly reaching a terminal velocity of Mach 17, so fast that if a nuclear bomb were to go off next to them, they would outrun the fireball. As they descend into the troposphere, they steer towards their final targets, with a margin of error of about 100m. Then, when their altitude has dropped to one kilometre, they explode.

The nuclear fireball itself doesn't touch the ground. This minimises fallout, but that's merely a fortunate side effect; the main reason is that it increases the pressure of the blast wave. This is severe enough to level any masonry buildings within 2km, level many masonry buildings within 6km and severely damage everything within 12km. Wooden buildings, naturally, will be entirely gone. Within 2km cars will be lifted off the ground by the blast wave; within 6km they'll be crushed into unrecognisable scrap.

However destructive it is, the blast wave is secondary to the flash. Anything flammable within 6-9km will simply be charred out of existence. Within 9-12km, the light will be bright enough to cause third degree burns; within 12-15km second degree burns; and within 15-18km first degree burns. Outside of that distance, the burns are generally milder, but eye injury is still common.

Anyone who somehow survives that will have to contend with the instantaneous radiation. Within 1-2km of the detonation, you'll receive a dose high enough to kill you on the spot. Within 2-3km, it'll merely cause lethal levels of radiation sickness. Outside of that, the radiation sickness will be survivable if immediately treated (which you won't be, due to the flash having killed everyone who might treat you.) Lower levels of radiation sickness will be your fate if you're further out; the LD50 is about 8km.

This instantaneous radiation will be mainly X-rays, and as such you'll need tens of metres of concrete, or inches of lead, to protect yourself from it. (Plus you'll have to prevent the flash from boiling the air inside your bunker.) The good news is that the X-rays will outrun the blast wave, meaning that your bunker will still be intact to protect you.

There. Now let's talk about the longer-term effects.

The most important isotopes in nuclear fallout are iodine-131, strontium-89, strontium-90 and cesium-137. (Carbon-14 is also produced, but since it's not particularly lethal I omit it here.)

Iodine-131 has a half-life of 8.07 days, meaning that it's chiefly hazardous within the first weeks, but its effects can persist for months. It's mainly dangerous due to the human body absorbing it readily and concentrating it within the thyroid gland, where it causes massive internal damage. If this stuff gets into the rain (and it will), then it'll contaminate the groundwater, and consequently kill every living thing downstream of it. It produces 2/3rds beta radiation and 1/3rd gamma.

Strontium-89 is a pure beta emitter with a half-life of 52 days. Due to its chemical resemblance to calcium, it gets absorbed into the bones, where it will kill bone marrow and cause agonising internal radiation injuries.

Strontium-90 is also a pure beta emitter, but has a half-life of 28.1 years. Again, it does the being-mistaken-for-calcium-so-your-body-absorbs-it-into-your-bones trick, but due to its longer half-life it's not as dangerous. Most of the damage from it comes from its decay product, yttrium-90, with a half-life of 64.2 hours, which is both horribly radioactive and horribly toxic because God hates you. Strontium-90 won't kill you if you're just walking around the contaminated area, but renders the area uninhabitable for centuries.

Finally, cesium-137 is the real long-term killer. It has a half-life of 30.0 years, producing beta and gamma radiation in roughly equal amounts. Cesium-137 hangs around for centuries and since it produces gamma radiation, there's no way to protect yourself from it.

...

You're only going to use this for peaceful purposes, aren't you?
Last edited by Laertes on Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Zaranthan
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Post by Zaranthan »

Laertes wrote:You're only going to use this for peaceful purposes, aren't you?
Well, now I know what sort of hell I'm damning my Kerbals to when I drop nuclear reactors from orbit.
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Post by fectin »

Reactor != bomb.
Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.
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Post by Zaranthan »

I would imagine crashing a reactor into a hillside would damage the containment enough for catastrophic failure. Plenty of cesium-137 in there.
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Post by Shatner »

I must admit, I'm enjoying the Laertes Lecture Series. Very good stuff, whether written in-character or not.
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Post by Stahlseele »

fectin wrote:Reactor != bomb.
Not neccessarly a nuke, but a dirty bomb due to radioactive material and a huge steam explosion.
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Post by Shatner »

EDIT: edited portions in italics

Design Goal: Have halflings superficially map on to the Tolkien stereotype, which is a whole bunch of "adventures make you late for dinner" farmers and a few "let's walk to Mount Doom and back" adventurers. I'll actually be introducing some substantial changes to the race and their society, but at a first glance we want sleepy farming villages growing pumpkins and pipeweed, while a handful of halflings set out to combat the great evil that is growing in the East. Also, I want to make a small race that is strong and I'm giving that to halflings. If you're wondering where the goblin's movement of 30 went, this is it.

Designer Notes: I wanted to make halflings a bit more militant while keeping them as yeoman farmers and plucky adventurers. This largely takes the form of the Settlers, though the fact that halflings will win a cage match against any other small race, as well as humans and elves, should be noted. Also, when halflings go to settle new land, they don't do it by half measures; they're kind of like a locust swarm that cultivates instead of consumes. I decided to make the race starkly divided between what amount to herd animals and wandering studs. The whole "villagers attracting travelers" competition is meant to be reminiscent of the lengths bowerbirds go to attract their mates.

Halflings

We are plain quiet folk and have no use for adventures. Nasty disturbing uncomfortable things! Make you late for dinner! I can't think what anybody sees in them -The Hobbit

Not all those who wander are lost. -The Fellowship of the Ring


While the most obvious feature about halflings is that they are short, at least compared to the humans they resemble, the most remarkable feature about halflings is that they are strong; despite being half the size and a fifth the weight of a human, a halfling is their equal in contests of strength. They are also very lithe, athletic, and can move surprisingly fast for their size, so halflings should not be under-estimated in combat. Halflings are also a race of extremes. The majority are land-bound farmers, known as Steaders, who only leave their homestead under duress, but a very visible minority are sailors, merchants, explorers, and adventurers, known as Travelers, who are driven by wanderlust. These characteristics define the halflings, both as individuals, and as a society.


Halfling Traits
* Small: As a Small creature, a halfling gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but a -4 penalty on grapple checks as well as using smaller weapons than humans use.
* Move Speed of 30
* +2 racial bonus dexterity
* -2 racial penalty to wisdom (if a Traveler) or Charisma (if a Steader/Settler)
* +2 racial bonus on Climb, Jump, and Move Silently checks
* Disproportionate Strength: Halflings are treated as being medium sized for the purposes of lifting and carrying limits
* Homesickness or Wanderlust: see Steader and Traveler descriptions below


Image
Steaders: About four out of every five halflings grow up to become very attached to land of their birth, and have a strong desire to remain and see it cultivated. These halflings are known as Steaders and they are the farmers and herders and craftsmen and fishermen of the race. They generally lay claim to an area large enough to support a thriving village; less space if the land is rich and more if the land is particularly poor. Most work the land or raise animals, while others provide the crafting needed to support this agriculture. If a territory includes a waterway, Steaders can be quite capable fishermen, though they refuse to leave sight of their land. Steaders are only happy when they are in their territory and surrounded by fellow Steaders; Steaders are generally only violent when defending their territory, or resisting being removed from it. These halflings are characterized by an overwhelming desire to see their territory tamed and cultivated. Steaders are also known for being simultaneously very hostile to any they fear might attempt to settle within their territory and extremely welcoming of traverlers, especially halflings but non-halflings as well. This territorial suspiciousness and general inward focus is what makes the Steaders somewhat less charismatic, but generally more level-headed than Travelers.

As Steaders will not travel beyond the edge of their territory, they are dependent on Travelers for both trade and fresh genes. As a result, halfling villages are in a state of fierce competition with their neighbors to attract Travelers. Villages will try to use comfortable inns, fine food and drinks, entertainment, festivals, and valuable trade goods to lure as many Travelers as possible to visit. In a well-visited village, a little over fifty percent of the halflings present will have a Traveler as a parent; if a town is unpopular for too long it will run the risk of inbreeding.

Steaders are not generally considered playable. Those with class levels are usually fighters or clerics.
Stats: Halfling Traits, -2 charisma, Homesickness (a Steader will not willingly leave their territory unless coerced, and will attempt to return there whenever possible)


Image
Travelers: About one in five halflings will, around the onset of puberty, feel for the first time the desire to leave their home and wander. These halflings usually join the next group of Travelers to enter the village, and from that point on they'll never stop moving on. Any role a halfling can have that involves moving from place to place is filled by a Traveler. Every halfling merchant, explorer, scout, mercenary, adventurer, and sailor is part of this very visible minority. Unlike the Steaders, a Traveler feels a growing urge to seek out new surroundings; an urge that becomes almost overpowering within a month of being in the same place. Though Travelers often group up with others of their kind, they do so for practical reasons and not because they feel the need to surround themselves with other halflings like Steaders do.

Because of the welcome they are certain to receive, most Travelers journey in a broad circuit across many halfling villages, often plying a trade as a merchant, sailor, or guard thereof. If a settled area is particularly dangerous, a chain of halfling villages will often hire a group of Travelers to patrol between them, exterminating smaller threats and scouting for the village militias. A few Travelers become explorers and adventurers, traveling to new lands and being away from their kind for months or even years at a time; some even return to these lands later in life as a guide to a group of Settlers. Despite stereotypes to the contrary, Travelers are neither exceptionally brave nor foolish. They are, however, more prone to impulsive or short-sighted decision making than their stay-at-home counterparts.

Because of their small size, strength, and agility, Travelers make excellent sailors, and the life of a sailor meshes well with their inborn wanderlust. It is to this profession that most Travelers settle, and in many parts of the world sailors and haflings are strongly associated. The only issue is that halfling vessels rarely travel out of sight of land for more than a month or two at a time. A featureless ocean can trigger the Traveler's desire to go somewhere else, even though the halflings onboard know intellectually that they have never stopped moving.

Travelers can excel in many roles, but most become rangers, fighters, barbarians, or rogues. Their wanderlust makes extended study difficult, which makes wizards, monks, and clerics rare.
Stats: Halfling Traits, -2 wisdom, Wanderlust (a Traveler feels compelled to travel to a new destination every month. Resisting this urge is possible but grows increasingly difficult)


Image
Settlers: When the population density in a halfling village gets too high, slightly more than half of the children born will exhibit a kind of Steader-Traveler hybrid personality; they will yearn to travel to a new area uninhabited by halflings and claim it as their own. Once this generation has grown to adulthood they will pick a destination they wish to depart for, elect a leader, beg or buy what supplies they can from their fellow villagers, and begin to assemble an expedition. This is done by traveling from village to village, adding ever more Settlers and supplies to their expedition. If two growing expeditions meet, they will usually merge; one leader will step down and the other, usually the most charismatic, will pick one of the two destinations to continue to. Once the expedition is deemed sufficiently large and well-supplied, they will usually try to hire some Travelers familiar with their destination as guides and then set out.

Just as Steaders feel compelled to defend and cultivate their territory no matter what, Settlers are likewise willing to do whatever is necessary to reach and settle their destination. If they must fight to get there, so be it. If they must fight to drive off whatever lived there before, so be it. If they must fight to eradicate whatever lived there before, so be it. And if 90% of their numbers must die to achieve this, so be it. Halflings almost never field armies, but to those already living at the destination there seems little difference between the expedition and one... generally, armies are more willing give up and to retreat than the halfling Settlers.

Once the Settlers have their destination well in hand they become just another bunch of Steaders, working to tame the land around them and entice a steady flow of Travelers. Should any Steaders be forced to abandon their home, they essentially become Settlers who will work tirelessly to form an expedition to retake their home. Unlike a true Settler, a former Steader is unwilling to accept a new destination. In this way, the halfling race has expanded and, once there, proven difficult to remove.

Settlers are not generally considered playable. Those with class levels are usually rangers, fighters, clerics, or rogues.
Stats: Halfling Traits, -2 charisma, Homesickness (a Settler will not willingly leave their territory unless coerced, and will attempt to return there whenever possible)
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Post by Laertes »

Shatner wrote:I must admit, I'm enjoying the Laertes Lecture Series. Very good stuff, whether written in-character or not.
This is why I keep doing it. I'm glad you enjoy it.
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Post by Lokathor »

Honestly, I assumed that a Sky Island would be more like an island that's actually just in the sky...
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Post by Laertes »

Those are pretty awesome, but real sky islands have the advantage that they're, well, real. Altitudinal zonation, transhumance and the isolation of biomes is a thing that really interests me since it creates the environment for a unique culture.
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Post by darkmaster »

Alright, I have been posting the setting details I've been putting here on another forum cause I wanted to share it there too. But I decided it was appropriate to preface the stuff there with just sort of the concepts I've been working from for humans and I thought it might be worth it to post that here too because I'll probably get more discussion. So... here it goes.

Okay so to preface this let's talk about the place of humans in fantasy. A lot of settings use humans as kind of the average everyman or the dumb losers with nothing special about them. In fact I can think of a few instances in this forum (the other forum). This is a mistake. It's true that you need humans to be more or less as they are in the real world in order to ground the player or reader in your world. But here's the thing, humans are the baddest motherfuckers around. Now, humans are an apex preditor, we eat everything and generally speaking nothing eats us back but while most apex predators have fangs and claws, humans have walking. You may not think that sound very threatening but just bear with me. There are a few societies that practice this thing called persistence hunting but there's this theory that all humans used to hunt that way. What persistence hunting is is you basically find an animal you want to eat and you start following it, and you keep following it, and following it, until that animal dies of exhaustion. Humans also have this super terrifying ability to heal broken bones and flesh wounds in a way no other animal can. The upshot to all this is that humans are basically the serial killer that strolls along after the terrified camper of the animal world, and in any setting humans exist in they are going to win because humans. Don't. Stop. We can eat almost anything, survive in almost any climate, heal from injuries that would cripple or outright kill other animals, and if all else fails we can walk you to death. So unless you're going for some kind of "all the races were secretly humans colored by the racism of their neighbors" thing the human race probably wins in the end, they might not be winning right now, but they're going to win, every time, just through sheer persistence.
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darkmaster wrote:Tgdmb.moe, like the gaming den, but we all yell at eachother about wich lucky star character is the cutest.
Fuck you Haruhi is clearly the best moe anime, and we will argue about how Haruhi and Nagato are OP and um... that girl with blond hair? is for shitters.

If you like Lucky Star then I will explain in great detail why Lucky Star is the a shitty shitty anime for shitty shitty people, and how the characters have no interesting abilities at all, and everything is poorly designed especially the skill challenges.
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Post by Laertes »

Many years ago, there was a thread on rpgnet about what humanity's hat would be in a world of hats. They made the same point that you did, but combined it with two other things.

Firstly, humans can thrive in any climate. Even rats don't have the same breadth of settlement as we do (well, they do, but that's because of us.) There is no place to hide from humans.

Secondly, we're very social, and crucially we're capable of being social with humans from outside of our Dunbar's Number. This means we'd be excellent soldiers rather than just warriors.

Humans are therefore great light infantry. If you combine our high overland speed (humans are the fastest thing in the world over distances of more than 2000km; up to that distance wolves match us) with our healing powers, our ability to work well in groups and our extremely broad appetite and climate tolerance, we are terrifying conquering hordes. Because that's exactly what we are.

Now, the question is how much of that applies to other races too. Halflings and elves have basically the same biology and morphology, so there's no reason why they couldn't have the same traits.
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Post by darkmaster »

I actually mentioned the climate thing briefly but I really didn't think of socialization, good catch, as to halflings and Elves. Halflings basically have no defining cultural characteristics, but they do have some defining physical features. Namely, they're small, and what being small means is that you're a shitty fighter, and you have to work much harder than a larger creature to cover the same distance. So even if halflings did have the same racial advantages as humans they would just be shittier humans by dint of being small. Giants have a smilar problem in that, well, they're big, and being much larger than a modern human would put a lot of strain on a humanoid body which limits the advantages gained.

Elves have a completely different problem. Usually elves are seen living in one kind of terrain and elves living elsewhere are considered to be a different species. This suggest that despite physical similarities with humans elves hyper specialize in living in just one area and do poorly elsewhere unless assisted and thus forest elves have little to no genetic drift between them and the mountain elves. As a result it's likely that not only would elves have a lot of trouble spreading out and conquering the world, any group of elves also actually has a pretty isolated gene pool, making them much more vulnerable to disease as well.

On the other hand, if other races are just better humans, your setting is boring.
Last edited by darkmaster on Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
Kaelik wrote:
darkmaster wrote:Tgdmb.moe, like the gaming den, but we all yell at eachother about wich lucky star character is the cutest.
Fuck you Haruhi is clearly the best moe anime, and we will argue about how Haruhi and Nagato are OP and um... that girl with blond hair? is for shitters.

If you like Lucky Star then I will explain in great detail why Lucky Star is the a shitty shitty anime for shitty shitty people, and how the characters have no interesting abilities at all, and everything is poorly designed especially the skill challenges.
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Post by deaddmwalking »

Hobgoblins are 'better humans' by RAW.
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Post by Zaranthan »

By the numbers, yes, but there's a few breadcrumbs in the Monster Manual to work with. I get the idea that although they're good at blacksmithing, they're not very good at anything else. They have to raid for the raw iron and coal for the forges. They can build good, sturdy walls of wood and stone, but they suck at lumberjacking and mining, so they have to enslave other races to do it for them.

Slavery sounds great on paper, but in practice it's much more expensive than just hiring people for exploitative wages. You need more overseers per slave than you do managers per voluntary laborer. You need to provide your slaves with all their necessities, which means every single citizen in your empire has to deal with corruption on a personal level. Slaves tend to spend every waking moment coming up with ways to escape, so you need more police patrolling the dark alleys.

Basically, for all their advantages in personal combat and rigid structure in society, their settlements are very inefficient for the number of hobgoblins they contain. They're terrifying to actually fight, but their ability to project force isn't as good as any other race with similar numbers.
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Post by Lokathor »

First, we must acknowledge the fact that we only actually know about one species worth of sapient psychology. This can be limiting when we try to come up with what others from another humanoid race, or what others from a non-humanoid race, might have as their "average" mindset. At the same time, human mindsets are culturally influenced in many ways, so if you look from one human culture to the next geographically or temporally you can find a lot of idea seeds of how humanoids might act.

Also of import, the origin of these different species can have a large impact upon things. Few, if any, of the humanoids within DnD-land actually evolved (same goes for almost all lifeforms in DnD actually). Most of them were either intelligently designed by someone who was making them for a purpose (which they might or might not still stick to) or they were simply spontaneously created with whatever properties.
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Post by deaddmwalking »

I think it is worth considering what benefits physiological differences might make.

For example, Dwarves are the same (or similar) mass to humans, but because they are shorter and stockier, they have a smaller surface area. As a result, they'd be better than your average human at retaining heat.

Giants, due to their massive size and proportionately smaller surface area might do very well in areas of extreme cold - my giants live high in mountains above the cloud forest - making them appear to live on floating castles.

Halflings, because of their small size and therefore smaller consumption needs would be ideally suited to a desert environment - they'd get by better on fewer resources.

The extrapolations wouldn't all fit the standard tropes, but it certainly becomes interesting to think about.
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Post by Laertes »

Slavery sounds great on paper, but in practice it's much more expensive than just hiring people for exploitative wages. You need more overseers per slave than you do managers per voluntary laborer. You need to provide your slaves with all their necessities, which means every single citizen in your empire has to deal with corruption on a personal level. Slaves tend to spend every waking moment coming up with ways to escape, so you need more police patrolling the dark alleys.
Slavery is profitable under three circumstances:

- Firstly, if there is no reserve army of the unemployed to drive down wages, then the wages of even unskilled labour can rise much higher than the cost of living. Exploitative wages become impossible, and indeed some industries can become unprofitable due to high labour costs. As such, slavery becomes equivalent to the use of labour-saving technology or magic: a means to use a comparatively small paid labour force to control a larger amount of (machinery/spells/slaves) that isn't dependent on the cost of labour. In a modern day social democratic state, the denial of a reserve army of the unemployed is achieved by the welfare state; in preindustrial countries it was achieved by the easy availability of subsistence farming as an alternate form of employment. For example, in the 13th and 14th centuries when the population had expanded so that there was little land left to expand onto, wages fell dramatically and sweatshop labour grew.

- Secondly, if the work itself is of the nature that no free person would do it then you need to use unfree labour. For much of human history mining has fallen under this category: with only iron tools there is no way to mine hard rock, so you're restricted to soft rock which crumbles and caves in easily. Many minerals (famously cinnabar, but also galena) are horribly toxic. Rock salt, due to the extremely soft rock it's found in, was another case. A non-mining example of this form of labour would be sugar cane farming in the Caribbean: the estimated average working life of a sugar slave was four years. There is no amount of money you can pay a person to do that, and so the only way to get anyone to do it is via slavery.

- Thirdly, if labour supply is uncertain then you need to prevent it from moving. For example, in Ruthenia during the period of the forum's Ars Magica game, it is estimated that 10% of the population were slaves. They weren't owned by a small class of slave owners like in Rome or America; rather many families would own a single slave. This was due to the highly mobile nature of the labour market compared to the highly static nature of the work that needed to be done. Such slaves were generally used for household tasks and were comparatively well treated (in that they were treated terribly but then everyone was treated terribly at the time) but were still unwaged and not free to leave to seek alternate employment.
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Post by Lokathor »

Are you sure that sugar slaves died because the farming is that inherently dangerous? Or did they just die because they were treated like shit all the time? Compared to mining, it seems like plant farming would be relatively safe if the workers aren't overworked.
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