I read Paranoia and I don't want to live anymore

[Prak]

I think the strength of Paranoia, just based on what I've read here, is that the computer would be a great way to write GlaDos if you wanted to do an Aperture Science tabletop. I mean, you sure as fuck wouldn't use the Paranoia ruleset for it, but thecomputer seems to be written in the same way.

[PhoneLobster]

specific kind of PvP too, thats not the same as the others.

And the shared flavor of that "specific" type of "PvP" is, based on my memories of your own breathlessly over excited and yet oddly soulless descriptions, turd flavored.

PvP in RPGs is... quiet frankly a stupid shitty idea. In the vast majority of RPG settings, games and rules sets it is in fact VITAL that the players work co-operatively, and it is a common and fundamental limit of the genre that they MUST work co-operatively. Because the "win" condition in co-operative story telling basically IS and almost always MUST in fact be characters succeeding as a group whether you like it or not and almost no amount of stupid wishful thinking can change that without out massive and fundamental changes that just don't happen in the majority of games designed by and for the kind of idiots that are... well... you Silva.

It is so bad that generally if someone sprukes their RPG with "Player vs Player Intrigue and Conflict!" you can as a general rule completely dismiss the designers and GMs involved as terrible at what they do and reliably predict any game anyone attempts to play of it to be at best an incomplete abandoned failure no one speaks of again.

Except for Paranoia. Because Paranoia is an exception to all such rules.

[Dogbert]

It is a satirical farce. Taking it seriously (and at face value) is failing a stupidity check.

This.

Paranoia is a tongue-in-cheek parody of Gygaxian style.

[Aryxbez]

I've played some version of paranoia, I know the DM has some type of Red DM Screen with bunch of random quotes from the setting all over it. I wouldn't be surprised if the rules we were using weren't correct, & only basic resolution system that is of any consistency. As been said, the game is a parody of Gygaxian tropes & other such ye-olde RPG norms, where they're turned on their head for COMEDY. It's a game that's great for one-shots, and so any long-term potential matters little, as all likely to all fail & die after the first session. Lot of its design shortcomings work for Paranoia, which is why it can be considered "an exception", whereas other RPG's that would be bad.

I know edition wise, I'm not sure which one to recommend, apparently there fans hate certain ones, & laud others, or something.

[silva]

specific kind of PvP too, thats not the same as the others.

And the shared flavor of that "specific" type of "PvP" is, based on my memories of your own breathlessly over excited and yet oddly soulless descriptions, turd flavored.

PvP in RPGs is... quiet frankly a stupid shitty idea...... It is so bad that generally if someone sprukes their RPG with "Player vs Player Intrigue and Conflict!" you can as a general rule completely dismiss the designers and GMs involved as terrible at what they do and reliably predict any game anyone attempts to play of it to be at best an incomplete abandoned failure no one speaks of again.

Except for Paranoia. Because Paranoia is an exception to all such rules.

I must remind you that, while I agree Paranoia is a nice game that accomplishes what it sets out to do, its far from being the most popular PvP game these days. Or yesterdays really. *World games are much more popular right now, and Amber was at least as popular as Paranoia two decades ago. So your rethoric of "only Paranoia is good" only says about your particular preferences and little else.

Edit: perhaps "popular" is not the right word to what I meant to say. "More played" is better.Paranoia is hugely popular but sees very little actual play time compared to those other games (at least if forums discussions and pbfs are any indicative - right now you have *World discussions and rules questions everywhere, but very little on Paranoia).

[hogarth]

Paranoia's oppositional player vs player "the objective is to lose hilariously and be the last asshole standing" thing is brilliant, it IS an RPG... but really it's firmly in it's own Genre.

The humourous tone and PvP make it unusual, but in spirit I don't consider Paranoia to be particularly different from silly meatgrinder dungeons like the Tomb of Horrors. In both cases, you grab some beer and some pretzels and a stack of easily replaceable PCs, and then you laugh over the ridiculous ways you end up dying.

[PhoneLobster]

Edit: perhaps "popular" is not the right word to what I meant to say. "More played" is better.

Your more played bullshit has been pretty much revealed to be complete fantasy in the past. *world is not popular, it sold almost nothing to nobody and no one plays it.

Paranoia may be a niche game but it is, at least periodically less of a niche game than the complete commercial nothing that is *world (which might I add is only a PvP game in your feverish fantasies.

When Paranoia XP came out, the first edition of Paranoia in years at the time, it sold out of multiple print runs, despite being printed by what was at the time probably one of if not the biggest 3rd party d20 publisher at the height of the d20 era, they did not anticipate, and then could not keep up with, the sales demand. What was expected to be a one off nostalgia book suddenly turned into their biggest product line with multiple editions and endless splat books. Hell it was pretty much just Paranoia and.. what? Judge Dredd or something wasn't it? That almost single handedly save that company from collapsing like all the other 3rd party d20 publishers when the d20 3rd party supplement market collapsed.

I significantly doubt your rather tiny market for *world matches the XP edition of Paranoia alone, let alone the entire franchise.

Hell your general assertion that ANY of the games you named were EVER remotely successful or even well known at all is pretty bug fuck crazy with the possible exception of amber, and even that is and always has been a damn sight more obscure than the Paranoia franchise.

But... Nobilis??? Who the fuck has heard of Nobilis? You think it was more popular than Paranoia a decade ago? Like say a decade ago in 2002 when they published the 2nd edition and it's publisher went under and shut down within ONE YEAR of that "great" success selling printing rights to the failed vulture of the RPG industry at the time, Guardians of Order which went under itself not long after. You know, a decade ago when Mongoose publishing (still around and publishing stuff) released Paranoia XP right in the middle of that around 2004 and couldn't keep up with demand for new the books. THAT decade ago?

Would that be the "successful" Nobilis that couldn't manage to release a splat book other than some dodgy LARP guide (that I'm sure was fucking HUGE) and after six years of trying gave up, released a tiny part of it as a free PDF, announced they would release the whole thing as a PDF series, delayed the second in the "series" because of "personal issues" then the whole thing fell through? THAT successful Nobilis?

During that period Paranoia released MANY splat books, adventure books, books full of forms an entire edition launched in 2009 with more source books at launch than any edition of Nobilis ever seemed to have any kind of book, before they then released and sold more splat books for it.

I mean fuck that's just from looking at the wikipedia pages, Nobilis is a litany of failure made of print on demand and free PDFs and closed companies, and Paranoia is just book after book after book, and that's even IN the decade you chose to declare as belonging to Nobilis. Only Paranoia's failed and brief fifth edition comes close to having less commercial products than ANY edition of Nobilis (hell it nearly rivals all of them combined), and did it's thing and entirely vanished years before Nobilis came to existence as a print on demand product which is also, curiously, all that is left of it now.

[erik]

This is kind of making me want to see a Dungeon Delve game where the characters are totally disposable and easy to generate and the goal is to be the last one standing as you delve a Gygaxian dungeon full of monsters and traps.

[Username17]

This is kind of making me want to see a Dungeon Delve game where the characters are totally disposable and easy to generate and the goal is to be the last one standing as you delve a Gygaxian dungeon full of monsters and traps.

So... OD&D then?

-Username17

[silva]

This is kind of making me want to see a Dungeon Delve game where the characters are totally disposable and easy to generate and the goal is to be the last one standing as you delve a Gygaxian dungeon full of monsters and traps.

This already exists, and is called OD&D.

[erik]

Har har. I meant with the intention that there would be player conflict. Secret societies, and special powers would be a plus. Yes, like OD&D but OD&D aimed at Paranoia.

Basically have the setting be that characters are prisoners in Castle Heterodyne and are charged with repairing it. The party is tasked with repairing the dungeon so that it will release you. If you die there are always more prisoners to tap, each with their various political machinations and special abilities that got them placed in this worst of prisons.

[mlangsdorf]

Edit: perhaps "popular" is not the right word to what I meant to say. "More played" is better.Paranoia is hugely popular but sees very little actual play time compared to those other games (at least if forums discussions and pbfs are any indicative - right now you have *World discussions and rules questions everywhere, but very little on Paranoia).

I've played DungeonWorld and ApocalypseWorld in short campaigns, and ran various pick-up and one-shot Paranoia games. So I have a fair amount of experience in both games.

Paranoia could be the most popular game in the country, and *World games could be played by a total of 30 people, and *World games would still have more rules questions than Paranoia. That's because *World games have poorly written rules that you are very much expected to follow, even when they're poorly worded, incomplete, and nonsensical, and Paranoia has fairly cleanly worded rules that no one cares about.

So of course there's more discussion about *World than Paranoia. But that's a horrible way to measure the interest and play of the two games.

[nockermensch]

Edit: perhaps "popular" is not the right word to what I meant to say. "More played" is better.Paranoia is hugely popular but sees very little actual play time compared to those other games (at least if forums discussions and pbfs are any indicative - right now you have *World discussions and rules questions everywhere, but very little on Paranoia).

I've played DungeonWorld and ApocalypseWorld in short campaigns, and ran various pick-up and one-shot Paranoia games. So I have a fair amount of experience in both games.

Paranoia could be the most popular game in the country, and *World games could be played by a total of 30 people, and *World games would still have more rules questions than Paranoia. That's because *World games have poorly written rules that you are very much expected to follow, even when they're poorly worded, incomplete, and nonsensical, and Paranoia has fairly cleanly worded rules that no one cares about.

So of course there's more discussion about *World than Paranoia. But that's a horrible way to measure the interest and play of the two games.

That was perfect, thank you.

[TheFlatline]

How close does Kobolds Ate My Baby get? I've heard it discussed in similar terms but never looked at either of them.

I played it once.

I remember not liking it much because it took itself too seriously in its desire to be funny god damn it. Once isn't a lot to go on from experience levels and maybe we did it wrong or something. Never had an urge to play again.

You sound like you were way too sober to play KAMB. The amusement factor of KAMB goes up as your BAC goes up.

Paranoia is not a serious RPG. There are rules for it be a serious RPG but it's not at it's best taking itself seriously at all. There's rules for "classic" Paranoia, which is just straight up satire (the example of Paranoia vs Fantasy RPG Which Must Not be Named is a good example) and Zap rules, which is basically 3 stooges with tac nuke weapons.

The problem you get is if people take the rules too seriously. The easy, obvious, or safe way to do something must always be classified or denied. The stupid, funny, or suicidal method should be encouraged and work just often enough that doing the crazy/stupid thing sounds like the best solution to any given problem.

Also, as far as character backstory, there is none. The book explicitly tells you to drop yourself into the role of SCHWARZENE-G-GER and not worry about backstory. Your PC won't last long enough for it to matter.

[TheFlatline]

Har har. I meant with the intention that there would be player conflict. Secret societies, and special powers would be a plus. Yes, like OD&D but OD&D aimed at Paranoia.

Basically have the setting be that characters are prisoners in Castle Heterodyne and are charged with repairing it. The party is tasked with repairing the dungeon so that it will release you. If you die there are always more prisoners to tap, each with their various political machinations and special abilities that got them placed in this worst of prisons.

I did this back in the days of AD&D. We based it on a book called Villains by Necessity.

In a world where Armageddon has come and gone, good has won, and the Dark Syndacate, the amalgam of miscellaneous evil gods that haven't been killed off, struggle to survive, the last ditch attempt at balance has been launched.

A handful of individuals- your PCs, are twisted to the cause of evil. Your job is to bring evil back to the world one nefarious deed at a time.

At first your enemies will be shepherds and the bouncer at the local pub, but as your deeds spread so will adventurers who try to step up to stop you. They'll suck at it at first but given time they'll become worthy opponents.

I ran this first as a short term campaign and then ripped off KAMB to make a beer & pretzels version I never finished. the D&D campaign was a big hit though. Goofy, high energy, lots of little digs at the D&D setting, it eventually got old when it started getting serious but man at the beginning it was a blast.

[TheFlatline]

Edit: perhaps "popular" is not the right word to what I meant to say. "More played" is better.Paranoia is hugely popular but sees very little actual play time compared to those other games (at least if forums discussions and pbfs are any indicative - right now you have *World discussions and rules questions everywhere, but very little on Paranoia).

I've played DungeonWorld and ApocalypseWorld in short campaigns, and ran various pick-up and one-shot Paranoia games. So I have a fair amount of experience in both games.

Paranoia could be the most popular game in the country, and *World games could be played by a total of 30 people, and *World games would still have more rules questions than Paranoia. That's because *World games have poorly written rules that you are very much expected to follow, even when they're poorly worded, incomplete, and nonsensical, and Paranoia has fairly cleanly worded rules that no one cares about.

So of course there's more discussion about *World than Paranoia. But that's a horrible way to measure the interest and play of the two games.

Granted if players *show* any knowledge of the rules their PCs directly suffer. So that helps avoid rules arguments too.

But any game where you can get MandatoryFunBonusHappinessEnhancementMeeting (failure to be happy is INSUBORDINATION) into the nomenclature of your business for your weekly meeting automatically wins some cool points.

[Laertes]

This is kind of making me want to see a Dungeon Delve game where the characters are totally disposable and easy to generate and the goal is to be the last one standing as you delve a Gygaxian dungeon full of monsters and traps.

So... OD&D then?

-Username17

This is kind of making me want to see a Dungeon Delve game where the characters are totally disposable and easy to generate and the goal is to be the last one standing as you delve a Gygaxian dungeon full of monsters and traps.

This already exists, and is called OD&D.

Shadzar's only been gone a month, and our facade is already starting to crack. Dammit guys, stand firm!

[momothefiddler]

Basically have the setting be that characters are prisoners in Castle Heterodyne and are charged with repairing it. The party is tasked with repairing the dungeon so that it will release you. If you die there are always more prisoners to tap, each with their various political machinations and special abilities that got them placed in this worst of prisons.

This sounds like tons of fun. I'd play it at least once.

[Neurosis]

I just want to point out that about ten posts up thread Silva and Frank said the same exact thing, seemingly independent of each other. I felt reality stop existing for a second.

[TheFlatline]

I just want to point out that about ten posts up thread Silva and Frank said the same exact thing, seemingly independent of each other. I felt reality stop existing for a second.

Quantumn theory predicts this will occasionally happen. However, statistically it won't happen for another 400 trillion years.

[malak]

I just want to point out that about ten posts up thread Silva and Frank said the same exact thing, seemingly independent of each other. I felt reality stop existing for a second.

Looks like silva exhausted all other ways of trolling. This way seems to have worked and elicited an emotional response from people.

[Kaelik]

I just want to point out that about ten posts up thread Silva and Frank said the same exact thing, seemingly independent of each other. I felt reality stop existing for a second.

Looks like silva exhausted all other ways of trolling. This way seems to have worked and elicited an emotional response from people.

Yeah this. He posted more than an hour after so he read what Frank said, and then thought it would be a good idea to say the exact thing.

[fectin]

If his new trolling is agreeing with Frank, well, there are worse things.

[Krusk]

You sound like you were way too sober to play KAMB. The amusement factor of KAMB goes up as your BAC goes up.

this was back in college so we were absolutely drinking, but probably not to falling down drunk at this point. I'd hope the game doesn't need to get there to be fun?

It's funny in the same way as that guy who quotes monte python. So you know, not really, but you can tell that was the intent.

[tussock]

Har har. I meant with the intention that there would be player conflict. Secret societies, and special powers would be a plus. Yes, like OD&D but OD&D aimed at Paranoia.

So, like 1st edition AD&D, with alignments, and class behaviour codes. The Paladin and Thief are basically required to kill each other at some point, assuming anyone ever rolls a Paladin.

Basically have the setting be that characters are prisoners in Castle Heterodyne and are charged with repairing it. The party is tasked with repairing the dungeon so that it will release you. If you die there are always more prisoners to tap, each with their various political machinations and special abilities that got them placed in this worst of prisons.

There is a Girl Genius RPG, and it's GURPS based so you know there'll be a ton of death and dismemberment. Oh, WAIT, NO. Actually, it was announced ten years ago and they're officially still working on it. The word being they wrote a bunch of spoilers into the fluff for it and are waiting for the comic to catch up. So, only another ten years or so at that rate. Best webcomic EVAR, but not fast. What'd they do, four years in the castle? No, six. They did a year on Tarvek getting resplendant immolation.