5e highlights reel?

[Rawbeard]

yeah, getting to do stuff in addition to some action is where they buried iterative attacks and similar "full round action" stuff. I can see this getting out of hand fast with future splats, especially when you multiclass dip for a certain action to trigger a bunch of extra stuff.

So many actions are bonus actions though, it's kinda annoying.

[nockermensch]

The big ones are extra actions. Because those are, as far as I can tell, uncapped. A Bonus Action or a Reaction is limited to one per round, but if you get an extra attack, you just win.

-Username17

Other than fighting classes getting a second attack by level 5 and Fighter getting a third and fourth by levels 11 and 20, are there more "extra actions" in the PHB?

[Username17]

The big ones are extra actions. Because those are, as far as I can tell, uncapped. A Bonus Action or a Reaction is limited to one per round, but if you get an extra attack, you just win.

-Username17

Other than fighting classes getting a second attack by level 5 and Fighter getting a third and fourth by levels 11 and 20, are there more "extra actions" in the PHB?

There sure are. Also "additional actions."

Choose a willing creature that you can see within range. Until the spell ends, the target’s speed is doubled, it gains a +2 bonus to AC, it has advantage on Dexterity saving throws, and it gains an additional action on each of its turns. That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object action.

This really is the most cumbersome action system that D&D has ever had. Which is an achievement, considering what a fucking clusterfuck 2nd edition was.

-Username17

[Lago PARANOIA]

Pathfinder and 4E D&D already had the problem of off-action clog, where characters just had too much shit to remember or even use. Off-action clog is acceptable, if pathetic, if they're pretty big actions but those games wanted us to think that bullshit like Pathfinder's Arcane Strike was a good use of them.

[Insomniac]

I think the HP is all designed for some scenario where everything can take a hit from somebody and live.

"2d6+3 sneak attack, 2d6+3 from the greatsword, 1d10 from the cantrip, 1d10+3 from the warlock... Ah, what the hell. Lets just say the thing is 7d8+14 so it will live a whole round."

Everything is predicated on unstated assumptions and then just forced into being that. The DMG is going to be 400 pages of Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc.

"The monsters can all survive one round arbitrarily, therefore, build them with enough HP to survive one round."

[Insomniac]

Pathfinder and 4E D&D already had the problem of off-action clog, where characters just had too much shit to remember or even use. Off-action clog is acceptable, if pathetic, if they're pretty big actions but those games wanted us to think that bullshit like Pathfinder's Arcane Strike was a good use of them.

It also doesn't help that they're calling everything some sort of an action that also Costs and Action. This has pointed out a lot, but the verbiage is so similar and confusing. It is worse than late stage 3.5 or Pathfinder with all the fiddly Actions you can take that all cost some sort of an Action.

Yuck.

[Rawbeard]

what does the warlock do for his 1d10+3? for the life of me I can't figure it out.

[Insomniac]

what does the warlock do for his 1d10+3? for the life of me I can't figure it out.

Eldritch Blast and Invocation to add his Charisma, +3 or +4, probably, to his damage.

[Rawbeard]

must have missed that invocation. I R stoopid. That is actually pretty sweet once you start shooting multiple beams out your arse.

[Deathfork]

must have missed that invocation. I R stoopid. That is actually pretty sweet once you start shooting multiple beams out your arse.

Actually there's a huge argument going on the WotC forms about whether each beam should get the bonus or only the first hit. It's really funny.

[Lago PARANOIA]

I'd also like to mention that traps are an ungodly abomination which is, or rather should be the go-to example for shit that works in a fixed single-narrative story but doesn't in a TTRPG. I just sat through an online session of Pathfinder in which what was going to be an exciting dungeon crawl that we've been building up to for a couple of weeks screech to a fucking halt because after two traps the party ended up spending 30 minutes per fucking-ass room pixel bitching and searching and bonus scrounging. Seriously, all of you motherfuckers who insist that traps can be interesting as long as they're used logically and aren't just 'search and disarm' and shouldn't just be hp taxes: FUCK YOU. I hope someone jabs a 10' pole up your ass and roasts you over a bonfire in a 10' pit trap.

... I bring this up, because in 3E and 4E D&D they were mostly ignorable except as a recurring resource tax (either with hit points or magical items), but with 5E D&D's bounded accuracy bullshit a whole new generation

[brized]

Seriously, all of you motherfuckers who insist that traps can be interesting as long as they're used logically and aren't just 'search and disarm' and shouldn't just be hp taxes: FUCK YOU. I hope someone jabs a 10' pole up your ass and roasts you over a bonfire in a 10' pit trap.

... I bring this up, because in 3E and 4E D&D they were mostly ignorable except as a recurring resource tax (either with hit points or magical items), but with 5E D&D's bounded accuracy bullshit a whole new generation

Well...were the traps in that online session interesting, logical, not just search and disarm, and not just resource taxes?

Nevermind, looks like a trap got you mid-sentence at the end there. RIP Lago.

[Lago PARANOIA]

Let's finish that sentence properly. A whole new generation gets to experience the unfiltered bullshit of traps for themselves.

Now, as far as the traps in-game were implemented: yes, they were logical and had a narrative purpose; yes, the DM implemented ways to get around them other than a search and disarm. The DM also allowed a cynical check to bypass them, though encouraged knot-cutting.

Nonetheless, they were annoying as fuck and slowed the game down.

[Rawbeard]

Actually there's a huge argument going on the WotC forms about whether each beam should get the bonus or only the first hit. It's really funny.

Not really surprised. I can see the intent being it only adding once, but the wording is open enough that you can argue for every beam. Making Eldritch Blast into a multi attack cantrip created a beautiful can of worms.

[Insomniac]

Actually there's a huge argument going on the WotC forms about whether each beam should get the bonus or only the first hit. It's really funny.

Not really surprised. I can see the intent being it only adding once, but the wording is open enough that you can argue for every beam. Making Eldritch Blast into a multi attack cantrip created a beautiful can of worms.

The RAW seem to support every beam to me. Oh well.

[Dean]

It obviously applies to every casting. It's also still underpowered. By 5th level when a Warlock has gotten his second 1d10 damage beam a 5th level Sorceror can have Haste as his concentration spell and choose the twin spell and quickened spell metamagic. That means a 5th level Sorceror can throw 3 Firebolts a round for 2d10 damage apiece and also make a melee attack. At 6th level that same sorceror can get +Cha mod to the damage of any fire spell he casts. Another class of the same level can do exactly the same things even better. Anyone arguing against Eldritch Blast is an idiot.

[Rawbeard]

Warlock needs to suck, I mean he already gets up to 4 spell slots per day, he can't be allowed to contribute damage with his signature cantrip on top of that!

[Deathfork]

It obviously applies to every casting. It's also still underpowered. By 5th level when a Warlock has gotten his second 1d10 damage beam a 5th level Sorceror can have Haste as his concentration spell and choose the twin spell and quickened spell metamagic. That means a 5th level Sorceror can throw 3 Firebolts a round for 2d10 damage apiece and also make a melee attack. At 6th level that same sorceror can get +Cha mod to the damage of any fire spell he casts. Another class of the same level can do exactly the same things even better. Anyone arguing against Eldritch Blast is an idiot.

I agree with your summation. But, let's take a look at it.
Assuming 6th level and using ability score to boost Cha,
Fire Bolt hits for 2d10+4 avg 15
Eldritch Blast hits for 2(1d10+4) avg 19
Without expending resources.
When expending resources:
The Sorcerer tosses twin spell and deals 2d10+4 to two different targets.
And then quicken spell for another 2d10+4 on one of the targets. For 15 damage to one and 30 damage to the other.
You can also Haste for another melee attack, with probably a quarter staff? For +4 attack d8+2 damage. Stacking another 6 damage on the big target for 36.
You can only do that twice before you're out of sorcery points. It's kind of like a mini nova round for level 6.

The warlock however, can Hex the target (Hex should really not be a Concentration spell) and deal an additional d6 necrotic per hit. For 26 damage all day long.

Conclusion?
If you're a warlock, stop being a warlock at level 2 and take sorcerer the rest of the way up.

Quickend Eldritch Blast, 4(d10+4+d6) is a monstrous avg 52 damage at level 6. Which BTW, competes with a Fighter's average damage. At level 20.

[Insomniac]

I will say this. Fire Bolt looks like the strongest damage cantrip available. It is better than Eldritch Blast, almost.

[Voss]

So, a highlight for the future:

D&D Adventurer's Handbook (March 17, 2015; hardcover accessory; $39.95) -- "Create Heroic Characters to Conquer the Elements in this Accessory for the World’s Greatest Roleplaying Game. Not inherently evil, elemental power can be mastered by those with both malevolent and benign intentions. The Elemental Evil Adventurer’s Handbook provides everything that players need to build a character that is tied directly into the Elemental Evil story arc, with skills, abilities, and spells meant to augment their play experience throughout the campaign. Additionally, valuable background and story information provides greater depth and immersion. An accessory that expands the number of options available for character creation for the Elemental Evil story arc, providing expanded backgrounds, class builds, and races meant specifically for this campaign. Provides background and setting information critical to having the greatest chance of success."

So, while spell bloat was a given through splatbooks, skill bloat makes my brain ache. But they're on record now as saying its coming. I'm imagining all the fascinating ways they can fuck this up- smaller skills split off of larger ones (hacking tumble off of acrobatics?) and offering lower DCs? Or brand new skills that do things no one would have bothered with? Or WW style random skill changes for no reason?

Interesting model for splats as well- as adventure tie ins, rather than themed supplements.
Oh. Nevermind. Enworld is stupid, this is a 3rd party product.

[Ferret]

It's an official 3rd party product - Wizards is writing the story bibles for the adventure arcs, but the Adventurer's Guides and actual modules are being authored by external parties. Kobold wrote Tyranny of Dragons, Sasquatch Studios is writing Elemental Evil (which apparently is going to be Son of the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil).

[Rawbeard]

This is going to be so horrible, I don't know why, bit 3rd party tend to fuck up the basic rules engine even more than the actual designers.

[Insomniac]

Quickend Eldritch Blast, 4(d10+4+d6) is a monstrous avg 52 damage at level 6. Which BTW, competes with a Fighter's average damage. At level 20.

That being said, even going all out to drop 50 damage a round doesn't mean too much at level 6. Reasonably, that probably doesn't even kill most CR 3s and 4s. This edition has very high HP and getting around that is more important.

[Voss]

Quickend Eldritch Blast, 4(d10+4+d6) is a monstrous avg 52 damage at level 6. Which BTW, competes with a Fighter's average damage. At level 20.

That being said, even going all out to drop 50 damage a round doesn't mean too much at level 6. Reasonably, that probably doesn't even kill most CR 3s and 4s. This edition has very high HP and getting around that is more important.

Well, yes, which is why it matters. If the whole party optimizes for damage output, each party member contributes solely to burning down the big stuff. If each party member is tossing out ~50 damage at level 6, thats a CR13 dragon (adult white) dead in a single round. CR 17 (adult red) easily in 2. It gets around the autosave bullshit for legendaries as well.

The part that doesn't work well is fighting a small number of CR equivalent critters, as while HP starts to escalate quickly, it also flattens out past level 10 or so. The stone golem is CR 10 and 178 hp, the white dragon 13 and 200, and the red 17 and 256. But bursting 1 of those down is relatively easy, even for a lower level party. Even 2 level equivalents are doable, depending on what they are, but most CR6s are some variation of 110-125 hp with multiple attacks that you want to drop as fast as possible, because several are quite capable of dropping a single party member with a single multi-attack routine. Done right, the party burns one down while someone hits the other with a save or lose spell, then you murder that one and move on.

It would be interesting to see the actual hit point curve (which seems to be about 25-30 at CR 1, 60-70 at CR 3, 90-100 at CR 5 and caps at around 250 at CR 17), but there a fuckload of outliers* all over the place, which makes it hard to parse.

*from the DM pdf and the tyranny of dragons supplement pdf

[Deathfork]

Quickend Eldritch Blast, 4(d10+4+d6) is a monstrous avg 52 damage at level 6. Which BTW, competes with a Fighter's average damage. At level 20.

That being said, even going all out to drop 50 damage a round doesn't mean too much at level 6. Reasonably, that probably doesn't even kill most CR 3s and 4s. This edition has very high HP and getting around that is more important.

That's a good point. I think a Paladin can do more if he really wants to front load his damage and haste is cast on him. 3(2d6+2d8+4) reroll all 1 and 2s. Comes to about 68 damage. The assassin Rogue, best case, does half that damage output from surprise, average 34 from 2(d8+3d6)+4, with haste tossing another d8+4.