[Tome] Dungeons and Druddigons Adamant Version

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:48 pm

Darth Rabbitt: I'm not entirely fond of evil, but I think that a villainous team with better management could actually benefit the world, so that's fine by me. Yeah, the OP says you can pick an array rolled by anyone.

Prak: Could you elaborate on how challenging a Gym as a team works?

On another note, I was looking at the Marshal handbook in minmaxboards and found this in the discussion thread:

StreamOfTheSky wrote:Umm... Motivate Stength makes the Art of War aura largely obsolete.
"Art of War: Bonus on disarm, trip, bull rush, and sunder attempts.
Motivate Strength: Bonus on Strength checks and Strength-based skill checks."

AoW is fine if your party does disarm and sunder. But you mention it for chain tripping and dungeon crashers (bull rush). These are strength checks. If no one's using disarm or sunder specifically (which should be the case for most parties), AoW is flipping pointless. I'd much rather also have the bonus on swim, jump, and climb checks and breaking and entering (doors, locks, whatever) checks. Oh, and over run. And defending against trip/bull rush/over run (AoW is only when attempting it yourself offensively). Yeah, Art of War sucks. Unfortunately. By name it should be the best aura.

I don't know if Tome Maneuvers count as Strength checks, but is it okay if they're boosted by the Motivate Strength minor aura?

Pixels · Post by **Pixels** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:08 pm

The Tome PDF explicitly calls bullrush and trip strength checks, so you're probably fine there. The only combat maneuver it would help defend against would be overrun - the others are either a check against a DC or an opposed attack roll.

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:10 pm

radthemad4 wrote:Darth Rabbitt: I'm not entirely fond of evil, but I think that a villainous team with better management could actually benefit the world, so that's fine by me. Yeah, the OP says you can pick an array rolled by anyone.

Well, Kentaro (my character)'s motivation is basically that he's been rejected by a villainous team in the past, decided he was too good for any of them, and he'd show those Rocket [whatever team exists in setting] fools (and anyone else) how to do a real villainous team. If you guys want to join his team (name pending) he'd be open to suggestions as to what to do once his ghosts have made entire continents bow to him. He's more evil in his means to an end (torturing and killing his enemies, then animating them into often-evil creatures) than the end itself (since conquering nations is a thing that even Good characters in D&D do).

Also, do I get Handle Animal as a class skill as part of the ACF (since Handle Animal is such a big part of the Train Pokemon ability)? Or do I have to take a background (or similar) for that?

Kentaro's character sheet so far. Tell me if anything's wrong.

Pixels · Post by **Pixels** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:39 pm

Darth Rabbitt wrote:Also, do I get Handle Animal as a class skill as part of the ACF (since Handle Animal is such a big part of the Train Pokemon ability)? Or do I have to take a background (or similar) for that?

Koumei wrote:Alternate Class Features
Handle Animal is added to every classes' Skill List

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:01 pm

Pixels wrote:
Darth Rabbitt wrote:Also, do I get Handle Animal as a class skill as part of the ACF (since Handle Animal is such a big part of the Train Pokemon ability)? Or do I have to take a background (or similar) for that?
Koumei wrote:Alternate Class Features
Handle Animal is added to every classes' Skill List

Thanks, didn't notice that for some reason.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:44 pm

Eevee is a confusing case, but has always seemed to me to be more of a weird cat/fox thing.

For your disguise, I'll say that you physically change into an anthro-fox, and then wrap a glamour around that, so yes, you can pick up items. Because you should be able to.

Ghost pokemon- I'll have to look through the books, but if you had anything in mind, I'd give you an answer on that first.

Necromantic feats... let me think.

Corrupt slas- BoVD says nothing on the subject, but I'll say that they do not have corruption costs as SLAs, unless it's part of the overall effect, like Lahm's Finger Darts.

The local villain team is Team Zhentar

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:55 am

OK. For Ghost Pokemon, I was considering either an Advanced Shadow Asp (Fiend Folio), an Advanced Lesser Phantom (MM5) Corollax (MM2), or a Magebred Spirit (Frostburn) Weasel.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:28 am

Forgot about the Team Gym Match question- Basically, the Gym Leader fields either a number of pokemon equal to the number of challengers, or a single pokemon at a time strong enough to challenge the entire team.

Proposed Ghost Pokemon-
Shadow Asp- Dark, with Incorporeal Form being a [Ghost] type move.
Lesser Phantom Corollax- Corollax's are [Light] type, Phantom is [Ghost], a Phantom Corollax would be a Light/Ghost.
Spirit Weasel- Ghost/Normal

All acceptable.

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:48 pm

Darth Rabbitt: I'm cool with that.

Pixels wrote:The Tome PDF explicitly calls bullrush and trip strength checks, so you're probably fine there. The only combat maneuver it would help defend against would be overrun - the others are either a check against a DC or an opposed attack roll.

Nifty. Thanks.

Pixels: Dude, the Phaerimm is way overpowered. You're a third level character and you have a pet sorcerer that's way better than a PC sorcerer.

Prak wrote:Trainers get tome feats, pokemon can take non-scaling tome feats such as those from Tome of Fiends and related (and I say this because there are Fiend and Elemental feats that would fit them quite well)

Your Nixie has scaling feats (though perhaps you could make non scaling versions of those that only incorporate the starting benefits).

Also, you can't swap out racial bonus feats (i.e. when the creature has one with a B next to it like the Nixie does on Dodge and Weapon Finesse) by RAW. Don't know if Prak's okay with swapping out racial bonus feats feats though. Since Dodge really sucks, it might be okay if you swap it for a slightly better version (like this one or this one).

I'm tempted to go with a Half Celestial Horse myself. Are Magebred Animals free if they're controlled pokemon? (Trainers can't apply templates on pokemon by themselves till they're level 6)

Also if I can keep equipment on my horse, and my horse in a pokeball, I don't think I'll bother with a Handy Haversack.

Pixels · Post by **Pixels** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:30 pm

Yeah, not sure what I was thinking last night on the phaerimm. It was a fun thought experiment though. Poked the nixie too while I was at it. I'd be perfectly happy with a non-scaling Marshal feat if that's allowed.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:06 pm

I must have missed the phaerimm. I know I forgot I said no scaling feats, but fortunately that's "written" down.

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:00 pm

He removed it a while back. It had 5th level sorcerer casting as SLAs.

Pixels wrote:Yeah, not sure what I was thinking last night on the phaerimm. It was a fun thought experiment though.

I can relate to that. I spent the last two hours or so looking through various domains for potential use with Wiseman's Cassisian.

Pixels · Post by **Pixels** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:48 pm

You can still see it - and a bunch of the other things I thought about and then discarded - on the scratch sheet. Nothing else quite as crazy though, mostly jotting down stuff so I could compare numbers across candidates.

It is a nice example of why the HD -> CR ratio should be treated as a guideline. A handful of creatures (Phaerimm, Slyph, Sharn, etc) scale with HD way better than other creatures of their type.

---

The Cassisian... talk about nerd sniping. I can immediately think of a handful of domains with really sick spell lists to have a at-will spell-likes. The oracle domain by itself could be game breaking. I'd pair it with some domain that gives silent image or minor image, or maybe the spell domain for flexibility, or maybe the summoner domain for infinite summon spam, or...

... or I shouldn't think about it too deeply. I am supposed to be working at this exact moment.

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:36 am

Pretty much every monster with spellcasting is crazy strong for its CR.

Out of the things I was considering taking, the Advanced Phantom Corollax is by far the best. Does its color spray caster level or its spell resistance improve with its CR?

Also, because of the ACF, my character can take [Monstrous] feats he qualifies for. I assume that includes the Pokemon feats in your and Koumei's thread. If so, what type(s) would my character count as for purposes of those?

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:54 am

I'll say CL does, SR does not.

Yes the ability to take monstrous feats includes pokemon feats. I'd say a kitsune warlock counts as psychic/fire/dark.

Mask_De_H · Post by **Mask_De_H** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:24 am

Room for one more, Prak?

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:39 am

Yeah, I can take one more.

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:26 am

Pixels wrote:You can still see it - and a bunch of the other things I thought about and then discarded - on the scratch sheet. Nothing else quite as crazy though, mostly jotting down stuff so I could compare numbers across candidates.

It is a nice example of why the HD -> CR ratio should be treated as a guideline. A handful of creatures (Phaerimm, Slyph, Sharn, etc) scale with HD way better than other creatures of their type.

---

The Cassisian... talk about nerd sniping. I can immediately think of a handful of domains with really sick spell lists to have a at-will spell-likes. The oracle domain by itself could be game breaking. I'd pair it with some domain that gives silent image or minor image, or maybe the spell domain for flexibility, or maybe the summoner domain for infinite summon spam, or...

... or I shouldn't think about it too deeply. I am supposed to be working at this exact moment.

Sorry about that. Should've mentioned that I'm not actually taking one as they feel too inappropriate as pokemon (they can evolve into the very humanoid Malakim). There is an Illusion domain with Silent, Minor and Persistent Image. Also, the Luck domain would give them free rerolls all day.

Mask_De_H · Post by **Mask_De_H** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:01 pm

If this were Digimon, evolving into a blatantly humanoid form wouldn't be a problem. :V

In all seriousness, you could just not have the thing evolve, like a Mawille. Maybe make the Melekhet a Mega-evolution.

EDIT: no you couldn't, since it advances by class level.

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:32 pm

Cassisian wrote:Advancement: Transformation (Malikim) or Class Level (Favored Classes: Cleric and Favored Soul)

Pokemon Trainer Class wrote:Creatures which can advance by hit dice or character class – like Beholders – are Pokémon even if they have character class levels.

Seems legit by RAW. If Prak's cool with it I'll gladly take one (I think I'll keep it as a hat). The summoner domain might be a bit too much though, as hilarious as it would be. The dead God Azuth has the Illusion Domain and the Spell Domain so it could plausibly have those two.

I'm thinking about having my character being an ex Apprentice (Apprenticed background) to an Artificer and flavoring the Bag of Knick Knacks feat as hastily jury rigging items (his handy haversack has a whole bunch of random half formed item parts he crafts in his down time, so it takes him a round to assemble them into a usable item, and runs out of parts once the daily GP value is used up). At some point he decided to be a Pokemon trainer instead, but still enjoys tinkering with things from time to time.

Btw, what are the rules for crafting? I'm also cool with not bothering with that at all with the justification that he spends all his spare time training his mons instead of crafting.

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:06 pm

Mask_De_H wrote:If this were Digimon, evolving into a blatantly humanoid form wouldn't be a problem. :V

Mega-Evolutions totally are Digivolutions, though. Down to the part where you need a Digivice Mega Ring and the specific Crest Mega Stone to evolve them.

Anyhow, a few more questions (and once more my apologies for asking so damn much): Are we using RoW armors, and if so, what do they cost? How would armor interact with my character's body type (being naturally a Tiny fox kit)? Would his armor fall off if he changes shape from fox to humanoid (or back) or meld into his form? How about wondrous items? If they would be useless, would things like collars fit either form (i.e. can I get things like Collars of Charisma and Kerchiefs of Resistance, and would they cost extra?)

Also, how would Backgrounds that influence your starting equipment work (i.e. War Profiteer and Hero of the Peasants?) Do they work differently given that we're 3rd level?

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:24 pm

Darth Rabbitt wrote:Would his armor fall off if he changes shape from fox to humanoid (or back) or meld into his form? How about wondrous items? If they would be useless, would things like collars fit either form (i.e. can I get things like Collars of Charisma and Kerchiefs of Resistance, and would they cost extra?)

Since it works as if using the spell, Disguise Self, your human form is just a hologram (think of it as turning yourself invisible and putting a hologram on top that follows your movements). It can look like and wear whatever you want it to whenever you transform. I think I read somewhere that magic items resize themselves to fit the owner so they won't cost extra.

Darth Rabbitt wrote:Also, how would Backgrounds that influence your starting equipment work (i.e. War Profiteer and Hero of the Peasants?) Do they work differently given that we're 3rd level?

I'm not Prak, but for Hero of the Peasants I'd just subtract starting gold (Spherelock: 4d4*10 gp (100 gold)) from 2700 GP and add the stuff it gives you. For War Profiteer, I'd probably buy some armor and weapons (with the total price of these not exceeding starting gold) at normal price and then just turn them into masterwork stuff. The rest I'd spend normally.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:06 am

Yeah, your human appearance is a hologram, and your bipedal form is just... a skeletal-system change, I guess.

For armour, let's use Red Rob's, which handily have price associations.

Backgrounds that change starting equipment--about to head to Christmas dinner, so let me get back to you on that.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:04 am

War Profiteer: just make a piece of armour and a weapon of your choice MW without paying the 150/300g

Hero of the Peasants: just don't.

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 10:46 am

radthemad4 wrote:
Cassisian wrote:Advancement: Transformation (Malikim) or Class Level (Favored Classes: Cleric and Favored Soul)

Pokemon Trainer Class wrote:Creatures which can advance by hit dice or character class – like Beholders – are Pokémon even if they have character class levels.

So, is the Cassisian okay?

Also, I'd like to take Drop from Orbit's first effect on my Half Celestial Magebred Light Warhorse:

Drop From Orbit [Skill]
You leave a crater -before- the battle. This is a skill feat and scales with your ranks in Jump.
Prerequisite: Must have fought on a plane with subjective gravity before OR fallen more than 300 feet and lived.
0: You may negate any falling damage taken from colliding with solid ground by inflicting the same amount of damage you would have taken onto the ground. Consult the relevent section of the DMG for rules on destroying walls and floors.

HM Slave already gives 1d6 damage per hit die that bypasses hardness against inanimate, non-magical rock, so these two could work together rather nicely for rooftop breaking entrances