Princes of the City: Anyone Want to Bite?

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:08 am

Whipstitch wrote:I think I'm going to bow out. Sorry to take up your time, AH.

Ach, weel. Your character is going into torpor, then. If you ever change your mind.

Nebuchadnezzar · Post by **Nebuchadnezzar** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:23 am

Stan as Keeper/Chief Human Resources Officer is fine by me, unless anyone objects.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:14 am

I don't think going with a Board or Court model means we can't also have the other. We could govern things like a board, but take the form of a court when we have to deal with the Cam.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:29 am

Even if you're officially Camarilla it's not at all unheard of for Princes to end up basically acting as chairman or even just the rubber stamp of the Primogen. Even if you have the final word deeply including other people in the decision making process when shit really goes down is a fine way of disseminating responsibility and reminding those assholes that some things are their problem too.

Ancient History wrote: Ach, weel. Your character is going into torpor, then. If you ever change your mind.

It's really just dot shifting fatigue and trying to reconcile access to all those shared goodies with what I thought I was going to be doing with the character. Ultimately, I think if my character is going to have access to a bunch of stuff then I think I'd be happier taking a page from Koumei and being the sort of person that just owns more stuff outright. I'll sleep on it and see what it'd look like if I rejiggered my points a bit tomorrow.

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:52 pm

A part of me would like to bow out due to generally feeling somewhat shitty these days (more school pressure than usual tends to make me seek out more passive and/or mindless forms of entertainment), but I really don't want to miss out on this due to feeling crappy right now (also this'll likely still be ongoing once I'm done failing and like Calvin says, in the very long term this'd make for better memories). Don't hold up the game on my account though if I can't finish my character in time.

Not entirely sure about Seth's sire yet, but I'd like Seth to have learned Technomancy over the internet by being one of the original playtesters people involved in helping Masika St. John invent it.

If we won't really benefit much from it, I won't buy the airport and use my points on something else.

hyzmarca, you're missing attributes (i.e. Strength, Dexterity, Stamina, Charisma, Manipulation, Appearance, Perception, Intelligence, and Wits).

Shady314 wrote:Assuming no objections let's go with AH's Bloody Boardroom idea. Or Board of Regnants?

Corporate Titles Pick one you like or make your own. I'll be CMO. Chief Magical/Medical Officer.

Seth could be CTO. Chief technology officer.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:49 am

It's a slow-start game, and it's important to think through how you're going to control your city, so I'm not trying to rush anybody on chargen. That said, does anyone have any other questions on making their character?

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:50 pm

So, I'm considering switching back from the Occult Library background to the OL merit, since I mostly want it for being able to advance thaumaturgy, and the switch would give me the points I need to up a background another point (I could raise Thaum 1 and actually start with The Green Path 1).

Still thinking about it, though. I suppose I may also take a few points out of what I put towards pooled and drop OcLi by a point.

Shady314 · Post by **Shady314** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:34 am

Prak wrote:So, I'm considering switching back from the Occult Library background to the OL merit, since I mostly want it for being able to advance thaumaturgy, and the switch would give me the points I need to up a background another point (I could raise Thaum 1 and actually start with The Green Path 1).

Still thinking about it, though. I suppose I may also take a few points out of what I put towards pooled and drop OcLi by a point.

I don't recall anything in the merit that helped with advancing Thaum anymore than the background does. The background is straight out of the Blood Magic sourcebook. What book is the merit from because I must be missing something?

More importantly AH said it's unlikely we'll earn any XP before the end. So no point planning for advancement.

Seems the main way we control our city is massive surveillance. I've got scry, Seth can get into basically anything electronic and Kel has animals everywhere plus contacts keeping an eye on all points of entry,

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:19 am

Sorry, my mind was sort of filling in thaum advancement knowledge gaps with mtp, I guess. Basically I figured that if you have an occult library, you can basically say "I'm studying books on plantomancy" in your downtime to explain spending xp on thaum and raising your Green Path rating. Since we're the only vamps in Juneau (supposedly) and getting another vamp to give you anything can be difficult or costly at best, it seemed like a good option.

You make a good point, but with the lack of advancement, then I care even more about starting with a dot of Green Path, and yet also less because that dot isn't any of the stuff I want to do with it.

Shady314 · Post by **Shady314** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:45 am

What do you want to do with it?

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:01 am

It's been a bit, so I don't quite remember what I had in mind, but I think the plant animation is what I was looking at, along with it just being very in character for a follower of the Path of Lilith (but not in character enough for me to give up my chimera-making).

On the other hand, Protean's not doing much for me, so I may move a dot from that to Thaum.

Judging__Eagle · Post by **Judging__Eagle** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:22 am

I'm regretting not watching this board more regularly.

The prospect of actually seeing a WoD game where players are actually able to do the things that the game presents; instead of being stuck in a deathtrap horror dungeon, or going on an endless murder-journey; is appealing.

The only characters I've played in V:tM were:

-A Tremere Thaumaturgist (with Thaum 3? 4? Able to make flamethrowers) in a horror dungeon with other kindred, but no items; Thaumaturgy was useful and an unexpected by the GM. More useful than the two characters with (almost) maxed Finances and Military resources (which the GM prevented the use of, because "horror dungeon").

-A very low (high?) generation Ventrue from the time of Rome who was a consumate general and warrior in a game set in a sort of post-apocalyptic Earth. They were incredibly pragmatic in terms of their weapons (a collapsible hatchet inspired by William Gibson's Idoru, a heavy rifle, some machine pistol, other explosives), and also had the Efficient Feeder merit. Part melee enforcer for the local Prince, part strategic/tactical leader in the group. The first time the GM presented a "normal looking human girl" in an abandoned gas station in the hellish post-apoc areas, they treated it as a potentially hostile encounter, warned their group, and set up their rifles bipod from a roof hatch on their armoured ride. Unsurprisingly (same GM as the above example) the "little girl" was revealed as some horrible evil when the group's diplomat went to parley. I believe my character opened fire as the parley party retreated, so we could escape that jive mess, but the campaign ended before we could resolve that.

It's been mentioned that the group doesn't have an enforcer/sheriff; and it's likely that use of Prak's ghouled bears may be masquerade shattering ways for the coterie-council to enforce their edicts. Since wargaming existing resources is more efficient than adding in new ones, I'm going to try and invent some sorts of characters which could fill the "enforcer" gap, without also costing the group additional background points (I'd probably throw some additional background points at "bear army", because why not make it bigger?)

However, that could be resolved a variety of ways.

The bears become "normalized" within the city limits of Juneau (by having one or more "owned" and passed off as "actors" or "performing" animals).

The first idea that comes to mind is that of a promoter/salesperson/owner of some local business who uses bears in their local TV/notices/billboard ads, and regularly walks/drives their 'cast' around town in the pack of a converted pickup or other vehicle; and their ads involve the maximium amount of ursine puns possible "Because shopping anywhere else would be unbearable!"; an other possibility would be to simply have a "bear circus" that performs at the edge of town as an alternative to whatever else is going on around town.

The second could be a fisheries system malfeaser who claims to be "the bear whisperer" who appears to look like an 18th century hunter-trapper and walks their "friend bears" through the to town to the watersides and rivers to totally flout traditional fishing quota laws by working in conjunction with the bears during the yearly salmon runs to catch and export this incredibly rare luxury good to a mix of exclusive elitist mail-order magazines and food markets that make your local Whole Foods look like a variety store; shipping said products straight to Japan for maximum yen/thalers is also likely. Since ursine bycatch isn't regulated by fishing quotas, this puts them in a grey area to be sure.

The third idea could be that a Club Bearhug exists; where visiting clients can pay cash money to challenge a 'tamed' bear to timed wrestling matches, and if they last the duration of the match they get a credit. They could instead simply pay for some of the services the club offers, bear backrubs (it'll make your pained muscles bearable!).

For a fourth possibility, Club Bearhug could be called Bear Necessities, or Bear Clinic, or Momma Bears, which offers actual bearhugs as a form of alternative psychological therapy to the people of the isolated town (which are psychologically uplifting b/c bears are covered in warm fur, hugging increases cortisol levels, also bears are enormous and a hug from them could feel very protective; slogans could include "If you're momma ain't around anymore to give you hugs, Momma-Bear's are even better"). Housecalls are a perfect excuse to be driving bears around town.

I came up with those off the top of my head, they're not very well thought out; and I don't have a detailed character concept in mind for any of them. In a situation like this I'm more likely to design the character based on the results I want to achieve instead of some special snowflake character concept. The idea of playing as a "Momma Bear" or "Bear Whisperer" are as appealing as "Bearny Bearnstein, Broker of Bargains" or "Triple-Bjorn (i.e. Bjorn Bjorn Bjorn), the bear Wrassler".

Is there room for such character concepts at this time? Do the other players have other ideas or suggestions?

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:49 am

Really, Sheriff is the role Kel is best suited for, his enforcing is just done via "charmed bear" rather than his own power. He only has a single ghouled bear, since ghouls are sort of expensive. It's also the bear he's put some of the more masquerade unfriendly enhancements of Vis/Biothaum on. All his enforcing that has to be done caring about the masquerade is done with normal bears that he's used Obedience on. Also, a rural town is generally not going to look twice at a bear wandering into town--just, you know, stay inside.

Finally, a midnight kidnapping and dumping into the forest, only for the person to later be found missing all their organs through a messily chewed hole is very masquerade friendly. Especially if we make it look like they just got drunk and wandered out.

hyzmarca · Post by **hyzmarca** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:52 pm

I'm not able to dedicate nearly as much time as I'd like to this because I'm currently working about 12-16 hours a day (and getting far less than minimum wage, the perils of freelance work).

But really, I'm still not sure which build would be best for my character.

I was thinking of a semi-competent build with some unique discipline combinations, the original reason I chose Cattif. But I realised that would take a lot of points to get the disciplines I want and detract from my backgrounds.

Now I'm going with an investigator build focused on info gatehering and lie detection.

I might go with a charisma build instead, I don't know. Swap Domination for Presence, maybe. But Dominate 3 is very useful.

Anyway, I'm going add some more police/underworld allies contacts if necessary. Smugglers maybe.

Shady314 · Post by **Shady314** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:36 pm

hyzmarca wrote:I'm not able to dedicate nearly as much time as I'd like to this because I'm currently working about 12-16 hours a day (and getting far less than minimum wage, the perils of freelance work).

But really, I'm still not sure which build would be best for my character.

I was thinking of a semi-competent build with some unique discipline combinations, the original reason I chose Cattif. But I realised that would take a lot of points to get the disciplines I want and detract from my backgrounds.

Now I'm going with an investigator build focused on info gatehering and lie detection.

I might go with a charisma build instead, I don't know. Swap Domination for Presence, maybe. But Dominate 3 is very useful.

Anyway, I'm going add some more police/underworld allies contacts if necessary. Smugglers maybe.

So you changed your build up? Looking at Verge currently I think he's great.

Make whatever will be fun for you but keep in mind we lack anyone with higher Dominate and Auspex while Constantin has Presence 5 so you are definitely filling an important gap. I assume you're trying to figure out how to get that juicy Auspex 4?

Smuggler is great idea for catching things trying to slip in under our surveillance net. Kel has a werewolf abomination as a boyfriend if you wanted to change Jacob into the smuggler to save points.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:46 pm

*werecrow ghoul, not werewolf abomination. There is literally no reason to embrace fera, except to be a dick.

Nebuchadnezzar · Post by **Nebuchadnezzar** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:58 am

Speaking of werecrows, is the Birdveillance network something people would want to do? Forgive my complete ignorance of WtA, but can a Corax be specced to control birds over a decent sized area? Vicissitude 2 seems sufficient to obviate surgical risks, the hardware cost is trivial, and if a smallish lens is the only external evidence of implantation then any stories of dissected spies could be dismissed as inventive animal cruelty.

Here are a couple more contact ideas:
-The AP maintains a Juneau desk in the Alaska Dispatch News building (which google calls Anchorage Daily News). Maintaining a chokepoint on legitimized journalism allows for more easily disseminating cover stories, which could be done through the local television news contact.
-Beloved local crackpot whose surprisingly high production value public access show has achieved Youtube notoriety. Helps make any evidence not in keeping with the group's aims appear ridiculous. The conspiracy angle suggests Seth might make a good character to feed this contact disinformation.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:20 am

Conceivably Vincent could have a couple dots of Animalism, which allows him to use Obedience, the same thing letting Kel do his bear army thing. Ghouls get 1 point in Potence, and 1 other dot of disciplines, and they can spend freebies for more. So Vincent could have Potence 1, Animalism 2 and 7 fewer freebie points, and just focus on raven/crow command.

The only Gift I can find that summons animals if a level 4 Lupus gift called Beast Life, which handily calls animals from a 10 mile/success radius, and they're friendly. But I doubt AH would make Vincent rank 4.

I do kind of like the idea of crows with small camera lenses on their foreheads, creating the appearance of three eyes.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:12 am

Even a ghouled corax is going to have trouble with the concept of a technomantic cyborg raven spy network; although he could probably do something similar.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:43 am

(Which is not to discourage anyone if they really want their RavenCam network. You can buy an animal shelter and merge it with a telecom venture for all I care.)

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:55 pm

"Why do you have a news station combined with an animal shelter?"
"Human interest stories."

Judging__Eagle · Post by **Judging__Eagle** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:20 am

A better plan would be to have the "media venture" be an "animal documentary" company. The strapping of cameras to animals is the 'cover', because the footage of birds flight from their point of view is breathtaking and entertaining (example: [url]https://youtu.be/G3QrhdfLCO8[/url)

There are no unsolvable problems, only sufficiently misunderstood ones.

Also, hiding in plain sight is better than behind a curtain, because people love to peek behind curtains; and are totally unphased by "routine" things no matter how weird they really are.

Which is why I suggested developing a way to "normalize" Kel's military assets with an other character who is able to make the inhabitants of town say "oh look, it's so-and-so with their strange, but routine, and totally normal bear friend(s), whom they take care of as part of theis business." Specifically because it does two things that Kel (or the group at large) can't currently accomplish:

A) Give any sort of cover story for his souped-up ghoul and vicissitude'd bear lover for when he's doing an operation in town (e.g. "oh you're just bullshitting, there's no such thing as monster bears, you must have been drunk and seen so-and-so's bears when they were in town"). Having a way for (military) assets to actually be at a location matters more than having unstoppable assets in the first place.

B) Give a reason that won't raise suspicion when the coterie needs to bring the hammer down on people who they will no longer tolerate (e.g. any illicit non-masquerade faction sends some goons to mess with any existing group Resources in Juneau, and "just by chance" an other local "bumps into them", with their bear employee(s); "I guess we were at the right place, at the right time" (despite the fact that micro-camera'd ravens providing town-wide oversight combined with cellphones or high-gain military surplus radios to co-ordinate coterie members based on said visual oversight).

A wildlife conservationist character could be something I'd ask Ancient_History to play as. Since Kel (or a daytime capable asset)already has a setup to manage stuff from a remote location, they'd be an ideal fit to manage an aerial panopticon. They could keep tabs on camera feeds, notice anything out of the ordinary that facial recognition software notes as the groups means to keep tabs on the total population of the town (the better to blackmail and control the mortals; their criminal and other clandestine activities during the day would be otherwise impossible to leverage against them) and communication to in-town members (or simply the Juneau police) of potential incidents to be defused in town.

Having an "animal rescue" service run by the group would mean that the towns population is passively feeding the group more potential animal recruits; as well as give a good cover if anything happens to existing camera'd bird assets that might be recovered by town members.

Judging__Eagle · Post by **Judging__Eagle** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:13 pm

Odd. I edited my post, and the text is "there" when I check to edit it, but it's not showing up in the post, so I'm copypastaing it again here:

A better plan would be to have the "media venture" be an "animal documentary" company. The strapping of cameras to animals is the 'cover', because the footage of birds flight from their point of view is breathtaking and entertaining (example: [url]https://youtu.be/G3QrhdfLCO8[/url)

There are no unsolvable problems, only sufficiently misunderstood ones.

Also, hiding in plain sight is better than behind a curtain, because people love to peek behind curtains; and are totally unphased by "routine" things no matter how weird they really are.

Which is why I suggested developing a way to "normalize" Kel's military assets with an other character who is able to make the inhabitants of town say "oh look, it's so-and-so with their strange, but routine, and totally normal bear friend(s), whom they take care of as part of theis business." Specifically because it does two things that Kel (or the group at large) can't currently accomplish:

A) Give any sort of cover story for his souped-up ghoul and vicissitude'd bear lover for when he's doing an operation in town (e.g. "oh you're just bullshitting, there's no such thing as monster bears, you must have been drunk and seen so-and-so's bears when they were in town"). Having a way for (military) assets to actually be at a location matters more than having unstoppable assets in the first place.

B) Give a reason that won't raise suspicion when the coterie needs to bring the hammer down on people who they will no longer tolerate (e.g. any illicit non-masquerade faction sends some goons to mess with any existing group Resources in Juneau, and "just by chance" an other local "bumps into them", with their bear employee(s); "I guess we were at the right place, at the right time" (despite the fact that micro-camera'd ravens providing town-wide oversight combined with cellphones or high-gain military surplus radios to co-ordinate coterie members based on said visual oversight).

A wildlife conservationist character could be something I'd ask Ancient_History to play as. Since Kel (or a daytime capable asset)already has a setup to manage stuff from a remote location, they'd be an ideal fit to manage an aerial panopticon. They could keep tabs on camera feeds, notice anything out of the ordinary that facial recognition software notes as the groups means to keep tabs on the total population of the town (the better to blackmail and control the mortals; their criminal and other clandestine activities during the day would be otherwise impossible to leverage against them) and communication to in-town members (or simply the Juneau police) of potential incidents to be defused in town.

Having an "animal rescue" service run by the group would mean that the towns population is passively feeding the group more potential animal recruits; as well as give a good cover if anything happens to existing camera'd bird assets that might be recovered by town members.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:30 pm

So, how close is everyone to finalizing their character?

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:18 pm

My midterms end in around 30 hours, so I think I might be able to finish off in maybe 48-72.

When it comes to the allies background, what do 'quite influential', 'very influential' and 'extremely influential' mean?

What are the options available for Supernatural Companion in this setting? Any suggestions?