Dominions 4 Teasers

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:28 pm

http://i.imgur.com/xSYPz1D.png

Huh. Impractical, but still pretty cool.

Shatner · Post by **Shatner** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:33 pm

Avoraciopoctules wrote:http://i.imgur.com/xSYPz1D.png

Huh. Impractical, but still pretty cool.

So they... summoned a doom horror, had it cast Transformation, then did it all again, then summoned the doom horror a third time?

Interesting. I'm assuming that requires some number of empowerments to accomplish.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:57 am

I think it was Enslave Mind spam on sent horrors, followed by gift of reason and nature empowerment if they didn't have enough for Transformation.

Red_Rob · Post by **Red_Rob** » Sun May 03, 2015 9:06 am

There's a gorgeous new all nations map for EA in the works. The author reckons it's nearly finished so hopefully not long to wait.

Ikeren · Post by **Ikeren** » Fri May 08, 2015 4:04 am

How does the Vine Ogre Pyramid work?

Summon an Ivy King with Ivy Helm + Thistle Mace + Moonvine Bracelet and spam summon Vine Ogres?

angelfromanotherpin · Fri May 08, 2015 11:39 am

Basically, except you are also spamming summoning the Ivy King as much as possible.

Ikeren · Post by **Ikeren** » Sat May 09, 2015 2:17 am

Just checked, Ivy Kings can't wear Ivy Crowns, and the + nature paths doesn't help them spam vine ogre. So it's really just Ivy King ---> Lots of Vine Ogres

Red_Rob · Post by **Red_Rob** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:58 pm

So it looks like Desura is going bankrupt and there is a danger the forums will go down. People have noticed the forums getting very slow with connection issues cropping up pretty regularly.

If you have anything posted on the Dominions forums that you want to keep (guides, maps, mods etc.) now might be the time to save a backup.

sum1won · Post by **sum1won** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:04 pm

Since there's a community of experienced players here, have a crosspost!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Tw3 ... sp=sharing

The above document is a compilation of proposed balance problems and solutions.

I know there are people who disagree with a number of these claims, which is why it is explicitly a list of suggestions. The standard for entry is “plausibility” not “weight of the evidence.” That’s what argument is for. Not all "problems" nor all "solutions" will necessarily be addressed in any resulting mod. It is a brainstorming tool, not a blueprint. I've attempted to crosslist various guides, balance mods, and threads where I thought it was appropriate, though more suggestions are welcome.

Ikeren · Post by **Ikeren** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:37 pm

Wow, that's pretty crazy @Red_Rob.

@Sum1won: Wow that document is vague. "LA Ulm. Research malus to foreignrecruit mages. Foreignrecruit mages are STR. 800gp labs. Something something vampire counts"

That is a description of how LA Ulm is uncontestably overpowered and in need of a fix? It seems like you're possibly trying to recreate the problem that was universal balance mod or whatever it was called.

Ikeren · Post by **Ikeren** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:38 pm

Wow, that's pretty crazy @Red_Rob.

@Sum1won: Wow that document is vague. "LA Ulm. Research malus to foreignrecruit mages. Foreignrecruit mages are STR. 800gp labs. Something something vampire counts"

That is a description of how LA Ulm is uncontestably overpowered and in need of a fix? It seems like you're possibly trying to recreate the problem that was universal balance mod or whatever it was called.

name_here · Post by **name_here** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:55 pm

The black underlined stuff is proposed fixes. I haven't really seen LA Ulm played in 4, but they were considered respectable in 3, and wound up on the right side of the combat mechanics changes plus got the ability to recruit research monkeys with just a lab.

Shatner · Post by **Shatner** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:01 pm

LA Ulm is crazy and fun and an absolute bitch to fight against, especially if the guy playing them understands communions/sabbaths and picks out the right research goals to focus their considerable number of RPs towards. I can certainly understand people wanting to reign the nation in. However, it's easily one of the most interesting nations made possible because of the transition from Dom3 to Dom4, and any nerfing would be well-advised to preserve the sheer coolness of the nation.

That LA Ulm also got a glancing blow of the mechanical changes that made MA Ulm no longer suck ass is a very small cherry on top of a very large astral-and-vampirism sundae.

sum1won · Post by **sum1won** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:06 pm

Shatner wrote: However, it's easily one of the most interesting nations made possible because of the transition from Dom3 to Dom4, and any nerfing would be well-advised to preserve the sheer coolness of the nation.

Yes, I agree that this should be an appropriate goal for a modder. Applying STR mechanics to the foreign recruit mages seemed like a good way to achieve that goal for me, though you'll note there were several other suggestions. (and disagreement as to whether these properly preserved the mystique of the nation)

Ikeren wrote:Wow, that's pretty crazy @Red_Rob.

@Sum1won: Wow that document is vague. "LA Ulm. Research malus to foreignrecruit mages. Foreignrecruit mages are STR. 800gp labs. Something something vampire counts"

That is a description of how LA Ulm is uncontestably overpowered and in need of a fix? It seems like you're possibly trying to recreate the problem that was universal balance mod or whatever it was called.

As posted both here and elsewhere,

I know there are people who disagree with a number of these claims, which is why it is explicitly a list of suggestions. The standard for entry is “plausibility” not “weight of the evidence.” That’s what argument is for. Not all "problems" nor all "solutions" will necessarily be addressed in any resulting mod. It is a brainstorming tool, not a blueprint.

If it is not clear, the purpose of the crosspost is to solicit commentary and suggestions. It is not itself a set of definite goals or a mod unto itself.
If there is a mechanic, spell, or nation that you or others feel needs work, the document serves as a cross-forum platform for just that.

Moreover, while it's not explicitly stated in every section (but is explicitly stated in the "suggested format" section on the first page) underlined sections are changes suggested by various players to address what they see as a problem. If you would like to outline why Ulm might be excessively strong in its age (because you felt this was insufficiently clear) or why you feel it might not be, you are more than welcome to do so, because that is the point of the document.

maglag · Post by **maglag** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:53 pm

Gotta love how they're crying to nerf Rain of Stones and Earthquake because it kills puny human mages blobs and then they cry to nerf LA Ulm because... They're good at fielding puny human mages blobs.

Perhaps nerf neither and hit LA Ulm on the face with earthquake/rain of stones to screw their communions?

K · Post by K » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:00 pm

That list makes me think that some people really hate tactics and strategy.

sum1won · Post by **sum1won** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:33 am

maglag wrote:Gotta love how they're crying to nerf Rain of Stones and Earthquake because it kills puny human mages blobs and then they cry to nerf LA Ulm because... They're good at fielding puny human mages blobs.

Perhaps nerf neither and hit LA Ulm on the face with earthquake/rain of stones to screw their communions?

"They" are not a monolith. Consequently, different members of "they" are likely to hold opposing points of view.

Ikeren · Post by **Ikeren** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:45 pm

Yeah, I guess this confuses me --- at what point do you call something sufficiently balanced? It seems like maglag's point makes a good case for removing discussion of both Rain of Stones/Earthquake and LA Ulm from your document.

name_here · Post by **name_here** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:25 pm

Well, firstly, I don't see a contradiction in nerfing a counter to a communion and nerfing a nation that's particularly good at communions. Most obviously, if a nation is particularly good at communions and you nerf a counter, that nation is going to become stronger. Secondly, not everyone can cast Rain Of Stones natively without using a communion (important because using a communion will in most cases delay the actual Rain Of Stones by a turn, letting an attacker cast defensive spells) and therefore can't use it as a counter.

But also, the primary concern with LA Ulm is that they research like mad and also have immortal D2B2 flying thugs.

Red_Rob · Post by **Red_Rob** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:55 pm

Unfortunately it's not so simple as "RoS is broken strong, LA Ulm is broken strong, problem solved". Firstly not every nation needs hitting like LA Ulm, and RoS can absolutely destroy nations that rely on lightly armored troops without any real investment required. Secondly the fact there exists something that can counter LA Ulm doesn't mean they aren't too good. Not every nation gets access to RoS, and facing a recruit-anywhere mass communion backed by turbo research is a losing proposition for many nations.

Ultimately the fact most Dominions games are FFA Multiplayer helps make up for a lot of balance issues, but some things can still be recognisably above the curve. To my mind RoS and LA Ulm could both do with a slight downgrade. Nothing too drastic, but currently RoS is too cheap and easy to cast for such a devastating spell, and LA Ulm has too much early research and too much to do with it.

K · Post by K » Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:56 pm

Dominions is a game of tactics and strategy, and that means that there are going to be situations where a particular player is not going to have an answer to another player's tactics and strategy. That's not broken balance, but is instead the essential nature of any game that values strategy.

RoS and LA Ulm are not broken. The tactic of the spell and the tactics in the nation have counters, and if you don't have those counters it's because you didn't prepare well enough for that tactic.

No tactics in Dominions are just generally good. That's what makes this game interesting.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:53 pm

http://i.imgur.com/179MR7M.png?1
http://i.imgur.com/bneSwqG.png?1
http://i.imgur.com/TTqhCre.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/hWaH8Hs.gif
http://i.imgur.com/fRf93aw.gif

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:04 pm

I am reminded of the Ultimate Joke from Quest for Glory 4.

Red_Rob · Post by **Red_Rob** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:35 pm

The World's Funniest Joke you say? Sounds dangerous.

maglag · Post by **maglag** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:45 pm

So, what's the best way of dealing with a water nation that starts to attack your coasts early game?

Do I just go "get out of my lawn" and push them back with my (hopefully superior) troops and then fortify my coastline, or should I start investing in stuff to actually take the fight to the seas?

I'm playing EA Tien Chi and the water nation attacking me is EA Atlantis. It seems he's more noob than me as he just puts his troops in a blob and calls it a day, although he's recruiting deep ones infantry and warriors of the deep, which are kinda the less shitty troops from EA Atlantis.