[LP] The Way of the Tiger. (Complete)

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:04 pm

You need someone's help, but it doesn't have to be Serakub's. Of the five potential allies, the only other one who can get you through is The Spires of Foreshadowing.

Use of the Sceptre is not necessary, and not even really helpful, all told.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:36 pm

Exactly. Ninja Honesty always triumphs without the need of magic!

Earlier on, when the bad guy's forces are marching to meet each other, you're given the opportunity to attack the weaker or the stronger force. Is attacking the stronger force an auto-fail?

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:16 pm

Korgan0 · Post by **Korgan0** » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:32 pm

What happens if you pick one of the other battle plans?

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:51 am

Some of the flavor text is different, but it's basically the same: a bunch of pass/fail choices, callbacks to the duel and scouting, a cavalry charge that culminates in a duel with the Old One, etc.

The book essentially spends a very large number of entries creating the illusion of you having more choices than you do. If it had just cut out that bullshit, it would totally have had room for an actually dynamic battle sequence with room for mistakes and recovery and so on.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:22 am

Orc getting a bolt in the back.

(When you use Arrow Cutting early on, you deflect a bolt into an enemy. Because everything in that opening sequence is fucking awesome.)

Nemesis priest with flail.

(This image does not seem to illustrate any passage near to it. Strange.)

An imp you can fight in the opening sequence.

A member of the Bringers of Doom.

A scorpion son of the god Nil.

(An illusion cast by the imp.)

The Old One.

(I don't know who scanned this, but they did a terrible job.)

The other potential allies, from Fiendil and the Spires, arriving in Irsmuncast.

Another view of Shadazar.

Monks of the Scarlet Mantis clashing with warrior women.

Warrior woman.

(Another pic which doesn't resemble anything described in the nearby passages.

The Cave Troll.

(Hairier than I imagined.)

The White Mage and the wyverns.

(Not a very good picture. It's confused and the wyverns look tiny.)

I don't think I have much else to say about this book that didn't get covered earlier. Lambasting of Book 6 to follow.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:41 pm

So, Inferno!

I don't even. I haven't seen a gamebook series take a dump on itself this hard since the third book of the Cretan Chronicles.

The short version is that it has all the flaws of Warbringer!, only more so, and also has an insultingly terrible downer ending.

The long version... well, let me start with that ending. Doing well in the book's final yet inconclusive confrontation is 'rewarded' with being dropped into ersatz-Lolth's web.

You have fallen into the web of the Black Widow, whose minions have driven you to this pass. Here on the seventh tier you will make a juicy morsel for the Queen of Evil, unless you can master your despair and somehow rid Orb of its darkest blight.

The end

First, this is unequivocally the end of the series. None of other books had a 'the end' on it. So Avenger is canonically left in a web at the bottom of the Rift, about to be eaten by not-Lolth. That's how his story ends, just a smack in the face to the readers.

Especially since it is clearly not written to be an ending. Right? I don't think I'm making that up. That's an intro to a boss fight. It wouldn't be the first time they'd left the actual conclusion to a story off (Overlord!, I am looking in your direction).

My theory is that the authors simply ran out of space to include the final showdown and actual conclusion, and also ran out of time to go back and fix it (because oh man, this book is padded with crap that could have been cut to make room for it), and then they said 'eh, fuck it, and slapped The end on the last thing they'd actually gotten to. And that's terrible.

By comparison, the rest of the flaws are just run-of-the-mill mediocrity. Sure, abandon the expanded scope and re-focus on solo ninja missions again. Reference number typoes, sure. Inexplicable continuity errors, why not? Intolerant and linear gameplay too.

A special mention needs to be made of the bizarre priorities of the book. There's an opportunity to have Foxglove as a reluctant sidekick on your mission. So in addition to a chunk of optional text managing your relationship with her, a lot of the encounters are written up twice, based on whether or not she's with you. And that's not bad by itself, it's actually quite interesting, because Foxglove is both useful and untrustworthy. But in the context of how threadbare the rest of the content is (including the 'ending'), you have to wonder what the hell the authors were thinking. They did this before, in Warbringer!, wasting pages on extra research materials for the red herring cities you couldn't possibly ally with etc., while the actual climactic battle was reduced to minimalist linear bullshit.

Oh yeah, there's also a fair amount of gratuitous sexual threat directed at Foxglove by the villains. And you can literally give her as a bribe to get past a lecherous orc; if you do, she is never seen again. Avenger is so ninja he can assassinate his own character.

So, that's why I consider Warbringer! to be the actual ending of the series. For all its bullshit, at least the narrative of the successful path is a solid one that comes to an actual conclusion. The story portion of Inferno! is just a shameful and bewildering monstrosity.

Starmaker · Post by **Starmaker** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:16 am

Update: the RC for Book 0 (Ninja!) is out for backers.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:12 am

Two gamebook LPs at once? Sure, I'm down to clown.

So the rerelease of Inferno is supposed to be better, and right off the bat it's substantially better because it's no longer the super-downer ending of the series, just a lead-in to book 7. In fact, books 6 + 7 are more or less one double book, kind of like 1 + 2, and to a lesser extent 4 + 5. Now, I think the textual improvements are pretty limited, probably just cleaning up the reference number typos and continuity errors. The rest of the mess is probably still the same. Still, that effort, combined with the promise of a proper ending in book 7, is enough to entice me back again. I hope you'll join me.

PEACE IN THE MANMARCH

On your triumphal return to the city, the streets of Irsmuncast had been strewn with flowers. Your victory against Honoric and the Legion of the Sword of Doom has made you the darling of the people. The months that follow are among the happiest of your life. As Overlord you will never be carefree, but your reign is now blessed with peace both within and without the city walls. The forces of the Rift had largely melted away when news of Honoric's defeat reached them and there have been no more raids from the Rift, the gaping chasm that men call the Bowels of Orb, since that glorious day.

Your friends Glaivas the Ranger-Lord and the Paladin, Doré le Jeune, became themselves fast friends during the celebrations, and at the zealous Paladin's suggestion, and against his better judgement, Glaivas allowed himself to be persuaded to accompany Doré on a punitive expedition to the Rift. They left almost a month ago to the day, and are due to arrive back at court after the first day of Pantheos.

Gwyneth, Force-Lady of the shieldmaidens of Dama, continues to oversee the keeping of law and of the military with her customary efficiency, and the demagogue has persuaded you to sponsor a series of new buildings which he hopes will spark a rennaissance for the city. The treasury is empty and you have had to borrow to make payments to the dependents of those you killed in the war, but the people are happy. Your allies have returned home with gifts to show that they can count on you for allegiance should they ever fall under attack.

The Manmarch is at peace. Still, you begin to feel increasingly uneasy as the month of Pantheos arrives and the days continue to pass....

On the fifth day of Pantheos, Force-Lady Gwyneth asks for an audience which you gladly grant. She is even more ram-rod straight than usual, and her lips are pressed together in an expression of determination. 'A party has come from the Rift.'

'Glaivas? Doré?' you ask eagerly, but your hopes are dashed.

'No, we still lack news of them. The news that we have is all unlooked for. An enemy of the city has returned... a traitress.' She spits the word out with ill-concealed venom. Only one woman is hated by Gwyneth in this way – Foxglove, the beautiful courtesan who ran the Order of the Yellow Lotus, the secret informers of the reign of the demonic Usurper. You remind Gwyneth that there has been no proof forthcoming that Foxglove betrayed the city to Shadazar and the forces of evil from the Rift.

'What need of proof? Where was she when the Orcs and the Dark Elves and their Trolls overran the city? Gone. Disapeared – poof! – into thin air... Pah! Into the Bowels of Orb, more like. Now they are camped on the edges of our farmland, guarded by a hundred miserable quivering Orcs of the Severed Head.'

'They?' you enquire.

'Another woman is with her, a warrior woman, wearing a strange patchwork affair of scale mail. They demand amnesty from you before they will enter the city. They claim to bear news that you will find interesting.' You pause to think things over, but Gwyneth continues: 'I can take them with but twenty of my cavalry. Foxglove is no fighter. Then we will see what they have to say.'

• Ride out with Gwyneth to try to take them prisoner?
• Proclaim an amnesty using the town criers, as Foxglove asks?
• Try to use your ninja skills to capture them alone?

Avenger I, Overlord of Irsmuncast-nigh-Edge, Grandmaster of the Five Winds
Modifiers: Kick +1, Throw +1, Fortune +1
Inner Force: 4/4
Endurance: 20/20
Techniques: Acrobatics, Climbing, Disable Device, Poison Needles, Kwon's Flail, ShinRen.
Shuriken: *****-*****-*****-*****
Ninja Tools: Ninja Costume, Breathing Tube, Iron Sleeves, Garotte, Flash Powder, Flint & Tinder, Spiderfish, Blood of Nil.
Special Items: Opal Ring, Pouch with 34 Gold Pieces, Locket with Saint's Hair, Silver Shuriken, Statuette of Dama, Coronation Day Coin, Ruby Circlet, Scorpion Ring, several gems, Amulet of Nullaq, the Orb (in eye), the Sceptre.

This book explicitly gives us a new charge of flash powder (about time), as well as a fresh dose of the Blood of Nil, apparently found stashed among certain evil treasures the Usurper had hidden away. Alas, it also clarifies that the loss of max Inner Force to the Amulet of Nullaq was not restored between books 4 and 5. Rough. I hope that gets undone at some point.

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:53 am

Let's try to team up with Foxglove. Ninja Amnesty Go!

maglag · Post by **maglag** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:45 am

Follow the ninja code as it was done in the previous books. Speak the truth. Forgive and trust others. Amnesty-no-jutsu.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:46 am

Amnesty for Foxglove and for her retinue is proclaimed throughout Irsmuncast, and your unwelcome visitors enter the city. The Orcs of the Severed Head, plainly very nervous, camp on Caravan Field, and talk to no one; they are guarded by a special contingent of the Watch. Foxglove and her companion are escorted into your presence by Gwyneth and ten Shieldmaidens. You are met with a double surprise.

The first surprise is Foxglove. She wears the same peacock gown that she wore when you first met her and she petitioned to become a member of your Privy Council, but it is torn and travel-stained; the extravagant peacock tail train has been ripped off it long since. She is still beautiful, but her fragile beauty is that of the forlorn waif rather than the sophisticated courtesan you remember.

The second surprise is the Warrior Woman. You recognize her haughtiness instantly. She is Cassandra, wanted by the priestesses of Illustra at Harith-si-the-Crow for the murder of their High Priestess, along with other dangerous worshipers of the insane chaos god, Anarchil. You were attacked by three of them because you had slain their barbarian friend Olvar in self-defense. Most clearly of all you remember that she is a breathtakingly swift swordswoman.

We actually missed that encounter with the evil adventuring party, but that's the backstory; her accomplices are Thaum the illusionist, and Tyutchev the motherfucker.

Cassandra strides toward the throne, neglecting to bow, and General Gwyneth moves in front of her to protect you. 'I have important news for you, Overlord. Your friend Glaivas the Ranger-Lord is held prisoner by the Dark Elves in the Rift. Only you can save him, Avenger. If you do not yield the Sceptre that is the badge and instrument of your rule to the Bowels of Orb, your friend Glaivas will die the death of a thousand torments, a death so horrible that only the immortal Dark Elves have the patience to execute it. If you yield the Sceptre, then Glaivas will go free.'

She pauses for your reaction. You ask of Doré, who had accompanied him, and she dismisses the question.

'If you care for the headstrong Paladin, find him yourself in the Rift.'

• Ask what she has to gain for placing erself in such danger while bringing you the message?
• Ask Foxglove whether Cassandra speaks the truth?
• Threaten to hold Cassandra hostage against Glaivas' return?

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:08 am

I'd ask Foxglove. I doubt taking hostages will help us here and I value our former advisor's word more than the word of someone who tried to kill us in a path in an earlier book we didn't take.

SGamerz · Post by **SGamerz** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:43 am

Darth Rabbitt wrote:I'd ask Foxglove. I doubt taking hostages will help us here and I value our former advisor's word more than the word of someone who tried to kill us in a path in an earlier book we didn't take.

If I remember correctly, Foxglove might also have "tried to kill us in a path in an earlier book we didn't take", so I don't trust either of them more than the other.

Still, it doesn't hurt to question both sources.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:00 pm

Foxglove looks nervously at Cassandra, who glowers at her, before replying. 'The Dark Elves took Glaivas two days before we set out from the Rift. They want the Sceptre. I do not know what became of the Paladin.' She hesitates, and you prompt her to go on.

She breaks into a flood of words: 'They will kill you, Avenger. It is a terrible place! The gods themselves could not survive in the Bowels. The air is tainted with poison and death and there are monsters that lurk there in the depths larger than cities...' She is breathing rapidly, her breast rising and falling with emotion.

'The Dark Elves are cruel and depraved beyond imagining. Don't send me back there with that woman, Overlord, I beg you.' Cassandra sneers at her in disgust.

'What part do you play in this, traitress?' Gwyneth asks of Foxglove.

'I am innocent of any dark design. When my own city closed its gates on me I fled to the Rift for succour and found only cruelty that surpasses understanding.'

Gwyneth becomes more angry than you have ever seen her. She is almost raving. 'Vile worm! You fled to those for whom you had opened the city gate when we were under siege, but they had no further use for you. You are only of use in this city, Foxglove. You have no martial skill, no sorcery or priestly powers, only the low cunning of a poisonous gutter toad.'

You ask Gwyneth to calm herself, and ask again why Foxglove is here. 'Against my will, Overlord, I am but a helpless pawn in an evil game.'

Cassandra says: 'I brought the woman Foxglove with me in order to gain safe entry to your city. I care not what you do with her, though I will take her back to the Rift as a token of what is to come, if you wish. Since you killed Shadazar, the Black Widow rules the Dark Elves. Foxglove has made quite an impression on the Black Widow, haven't you, my beauty?'

Foxglove throws herself to her knees and begs you not to send her back to the Bowels of Orb. General Gwyneth says that Foxglove is a traitress and should be put to the sword.

• Order Foxglove's execution for the part Gwyneth says she played in the sacking of your city?
• Send her back to the Rift in hopes of buying time for your friend Glaivas?
• Set her free on condition that she never enter the city again, on pain of death?
• Order Foxglove to be held, with the intent to force her to accompany you to the Rift after Cassandra departs?

Personally, I find this vehemence against Foxglove in the absence of evidence to be pretty out of character for Gwyneth, who is supposed to be all about law and justice. Also, damn, all of those options are pretty harsh: death, extreme rendition, banishment, and forcibly subject her to the thing she is openly begging you not to. Where the fuck is the due process choice? Golspiel would get a trial, even if you had hard evidence of his treason.

MisterDee · Post by **MisterDee** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:09 pm

This particular storyline is one of WoTT's big narrative problems, and it's pretty telling that it comes to roost with a vengeance in Inferno!. We've been told a lot of horrible things about Foxglove, but we haven't really been shown anything terrible from her, nor experienced any actual gameplay effects from her actions.

So while Avenger has many allies and friends who don't trust Foxglove, the player has nothing much on which to base the dislike/distrust the author seems to imply we should feel toward her.

It doesn't help that Gwyneth, while obviously good and trustworthy, is incredibly high-maintenance.

In this case, keep Foxglove. She might have intel we need.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:15 pm

It's almost a good job of creating ambivalence. Gwyneth (and others) lived in the city when the Yellow Lotus was the Usurper's hidden terror. You couldn't dissent, even in private, because you never knew who might report you. People you knew just disappeared and were never heard from again, for any reason or no reason as far as you could tell. But Avenger doesn't get what that was like, because he didn't live it, and also is a covert operative himself. Plus, when he shows up, Foxglove is all innocuous and useful and 'the bad Usurper made me do those things.'

So there's a genuine disconnect between his experience of the Lotus and his advisors' relationship with them. That's material for good conflict, especially when it comes to choices about how to handle someone that your friends claim is evil but who has never done anything but right by you. Except the writing just doesn't pull it off, and it comes off as incoherent instead.

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:55 pm

Keep Foxglove.

angelfromanotherpin · Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:29 pm

Gwyneth escorts Foxglove none too gently to the donjon, the windowless tower at the north-east corner of the Palace. There she will languish until you finish your business with the Warrior Woman.

You decide to try to find out more information. Will you ask Cassandra:
• Where in the Rift Glaivas is being held?
• How many Dark Elves there are in the Rift?
• Where her friends Tyutchev and Thaum are to be found?

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:02 am

Glavias' location is the most important thing to know so ask that first. Not sure how much more we'll get out of her.

Omegonthesane · Post by **Omegonthesane** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:08 am

Glaivas. No matter how many DEs there are we just sneak past them, and her "friends" are not high on the priority list.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:03 pm

'Glaivas is kept captive beyond the seventh tier in the area known as the Forbidden Sanctuary. The Black Widow's web reaches out from the hub there.' You ask Cassandra one more question.

• How many Dark Elves are in the Rift?
• Where are Tyutchev and Thaum?

Mr Shine · Post by **Mr Shine** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:21 pm

Presumably the answer to the first one is some huge number, knowing which is of no help. Also probably of no help but marginally more interesting, let's ask about her companions.

MisterDee · Post by **MisterDee** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:40 pm

Real useful, Cassandra. "Oh, Glaivas is in the next book trololol!"

Sure, ask about T&T.

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:53 pm

Ask where the illusionist and the motherfucker are.