POKEYMANS thread

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:50 am

To me, the new sea cucumber thing looks like a Baby I digimon, which is a big plus for me. Plus stomach fists. Gotta love that.

Eikre · Post by **Eikre** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:34 pm

In-world, the ice-cream cone Pokemon are obviously the predecessors to the delicious snack. Their secretions are the basis of the flavor which came to be known, after them, as "vanilla," and the notion of serving ice-cream in a cone was a mascot-style marketing technique.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:43 pm

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:31 pm

Kuwakannon is awesome

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:10 pm

Eikre wrote:In-world, the ice-cream cone Pokemon are obviously the predecessors to the delicious snack. Their secretions are the basis of the flavor which came to be known, after them, as "vanilla," and the notion of serving ice-cream in a cone was a mascot-style marketing technique.

This does not change the fact that Vanillite's design and concept is stupid.

karpik777 · Post by **karpik777** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:22 pm

Shrapnel wrote:This does not change the fact that Vanillite's design and concept is stupid.

Which generation didn't have its share of stupid concepts and designs? The whole thing started with living magnets, living balls, living toxic sludge, living and solid programming code...

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:56 am

Tell me your favourite generation. I will ruin it by showing you the stupid pokemon concepts and designs from it. Even if it's also my favourite.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:08 am

Vanillite was a guest design from the HarmoKnight guy.

karpik777 wrote:
Shrapnel wrote:This does not change the fact that Vanillite's design and concept is stupid.
Which generation didn't have its share of stupid concepts and designs? The whole thing started with living magnets, living balls, living toxic sludge, living and solid programming code...

I figure it's because icecream is a very specific mundane object while "toxic sludge" "Magnets" and "Orb" are more abstract.

I say mundane object because generally people who dislike Vanillite also dislike Klefki, but nobody complains about Bronzong and Honedge because ancient bronze bells and swords have a more fantasy adventure feeling to them.

If Vanillite was more abstract like being a living mound of snow or ice like the way muk is sludge there'd be less to hate on. If Klefki looked more like ancient keys/skeleton key that would unlock a dungeon treasure instead of mundane car keys, then there'd be less to hate on.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:21 am

I don't know about anyone else, but I hate klefki for two reasons- 1, it looks fucking dumb. I agree, if it looked more like ancient keys, a skeleton key, or just not a fucking toddler's teething ring-

not even fucking kidding

-I'd be more ok with it.

The other reason is I just hate the Fairy type as it was introduced. What is the fucking unifying theme of fairy pokemon?

They're cute and or pink? Well, then fucking half of all pokemon should be fucking fairy type. There's a reason the only fairies I use are Gardevior and Mawhile, and it's not just because they are actually fucking useful.

Eikre · Post by **Eikre** » Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:14 pm

Fairy is exactly as good of an idea for a type as Ghost and Dragon. Its squishy-and-pink theme was one that they had going as a sub-theme of Normal for a long time.

What I'm more baffled by is why Chansey remained a pure Normal type. Actually, scratch that, what I'm baffled at is why Normal even gets to continue to be a fucking type. It's the most bullshit element, seriously. If the defining feature is "no defining feature," maybe you should indicate that shit by just not declaring a fucking type? And, if you really needed to specifically assign a generic element sometimes? Try "Fighting," you motherfuckers. The whole fucking GAME is about fighting shit!

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:06 pm

Yeah, I agree on Normal. Normal should be errata'd out, and Normal types should either become single-typed WhatEverTheirOtherTypeIs, or Fighting.

But Ghost and Dragon have an actual unifying theme. There are perhaps individual pokemon that don't make sense in them (or outside of them), but they have a theme that goes beyond "purple" or "spiky."

Hell, given that Ghost is about 30% predicated on "spooky looking/halloween themed" I'd even be ok with Fairy being about 30% predicated on "cute" if cute weren't the defining characteristic of a good 70% of pokemon.

Personally, I'd like Fairy to have more to do with folk loric fae. ...but I'm pretty sure that's Ghost or Dark territory.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:40 am

OgreBattle wrote:Vanillite was a guest design from the HarmoKnight guy.

karpik777 wrote:
Shrapnel wrote:This does not change the fact that Vanillite's design and concept is stupid.
Which generation didn't have its share of stupid concepts and designs? The whole thing started with living magnets, living balls, living toxic sludge, living and solid programming code...
I figure it's because icecream is a very specific mundane object while "toxic sludge" "Magnets" and "Orb" are more abstract.

I say mundane object because generally people who dislike Vanillite also dislike Klefki, but nobody complains about Bronzong and Honedge because ancient bronze bells and swords have a more fantasy adventure feeling to them.

If Vanillite was more abstract like being a living mound of snow or ice like the way muk is sludge there'd be less to hate on. If Klefki looked more like ancient keys/skeleton key that would unlock a dungeon treasure instead of mundane car keys, then there'd be less to hate on.

Ogre hit it on the head.

Vanillite, to me, was just a very "bottom of the barrel" kinda design, like, even by Gen V's awful standards.

Funnily enough, I don't mind Klefki all that much. I do think it is kinda lame, but you can at least make keys cool, whereas there is no way to make a frozen confectionery treat not stupid. In regards to Pokémon, at least.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:19 am

Prak wrote:But Ghost and Dragon have an actual unifying theme. There are perhaps individual pokemon that don't make sense in them (or outside of them), but they have a theme that goes beyond "purple" or "spiky."

I'll grant Ghost there, but Dragon has the theme of "Resists all Starters and also Pikachu and is generally good and hard to Resist". It's basically a mechanic for Boss Type, at least originally before Steel and Fairy came in. If you're not talking mechanics, then you've lost the argument because Gyarados is not a Dragon, Charizard can only be a Dragon through one Mega-Evolution (which looks less draconic in my mind than standard classic one), and the following things are Dragons:
* Mega-Ampharos
* Mega Sceptile (because Dragonzord?)
* Altaria
* Bacon & Eggsgon
* Tyrunt & Tyrantrum
* Goomy & Sliggoo
* Noibat
* Zygarde
* A FUCKING PALM TREE OF EGGS FUCK YOU

You are wrong. You lose. Good day sir.

Even Water can just mean "lives near water" as opposed to "Lives 100% in water" or "is a Water Elemental", and Ground can basically mean "sometimes burrows". It's basically just a set of mechanics that sometimes has the fortune of making sense. Getting your jimmies rustled because ancient majycke faerie lore is ruined just means people will laugh at you.

Well, there's my weekly [EDITED] quota used up.

Eikre · Post by **Eikre** » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:57 pm

It is acceptable to me that some mons' types be prescriptive instead of descriptive. You wouldn't suppose that Nidoran was necessarily a ground type just by looking at them, but when you find out that they are, it does say something about them.

That reminds me, the dichotomy between Ground and Rock is also pretty thematically bullshit. Albeit one that's probably harder to resolve at this point since their weakness tables are completely different. I'd appreciate it if the translation had been "stone" instead of "rock."

I kind of wanna do a Pokemon romhack, culled down to only the good designs, with a revamped weakness table and some type switches.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:23 am

Yeah, Rock/Ground is indeed another stupid one, but one that goes back so far that culling one of them basically means you may as well go full Pokemon: Cheese and Winston for Virtual Boy, with Shedinja being a shed ninja (obviously) and Conkeldurr being an intellectually impaired conch shell.

The Nidos being Ground/Poison is kind of weird, and honestly, I figured they were going to have one of the two bumped out for Fairy (because you evolve them with the Moon Stone and they are both Rabbit pokemon that represent the rabbit in the moon). Ground/Fairy sounds pretty decent actually. Now this does feed back into Prak's point about that typing being very dumb and arbitrary and "Maybe this or maybe not" like with both of the Mount Moon pink marshmallows*, but that's practically every type at this point. I don't even feel particularly generous about letting Sudowoodo fly as a "Rock type that looks like a Grass type! It's deliberate camouflage!", I'd rather just call that bullshit.

*If you look like a marshmallow, Bite should be more effective, not less.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:12 am

Hmm... now I'm kind of tempted to go through and retype at least all of the original generation according to how I think would make the most sense...

Fuck it, it's not like I started writing a new cross fic today, or have an actual book to write, or could be trying to figure out how to get my own place...

Oh wait... But on the other hand, this sounds sort of fun.

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:36 am

Koumei, you forgot that fully evolved seahorses are also Dragon (Kingdra and whateverthefuck Gen 6's Toxic Seahorse was called.) Because leafy sea dragons.

If the Nidos were to drop a type for Fairy I'd suggest Ground; Poison/Fairy seems appropriate for pastel bunny monsters from Mount Moon covered in poison spines.

Shouldn't the fucking ice cream cone be Ice/Fairy since it's literally a dessert? Same goes for the marshmallow dragon not being Fairy/Dragon.

Fairy/Ghost seems like a good basis for old school medieval faeries that haunt woods and steal children at night.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:23 am

The newest revealed pokemon is fucking stupid-

fanart used because it shows the design better. In combat it faces it's shell towards the enemy

schpeelah · Post by **schpeelah** » Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:47 pm

Prak wrote:The newest revealed pokemon is fucking stupid-

fanart used because it shows the design better. In combat it faces it's shell towards the enemy

"Better"? The fact that the shell looks like a cartoon explosion if a big part of the design.

Also please spoiler the pic, it's stretching the thread.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Aug 21, 2016 7:53 pm

Ok, sure, but I was talking about the overall design.

My biggest problem is that the pose is stupid as fuck. After that is the nose. The concept has a lot of promise, but the design is just dumb. The shell is the only good part.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:55 am

That's just the stance Nick Diaz uses to taunt people into his shell trap

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:15 am

Then what pokemon does that make Bork Laser? Garchomp?

Prak: if you meant just writing out "X pokemon would be Y types" and not doing your own romhack, it shouldn't take very long. I support doing it as a matter of curiosity - I was once sufficiently bored to write out Mega-Evolutions for everything that lacked one. That still didn't take much time and you'd have a fair bit less work to do for your task.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:10 pm

Lesnar is roughly the proportions of Graveler, just imagine one with a cocksword between its chestarms.

Typing changes for the 151? Well I do think poison and ground/rock was added to too many so...

Bulbasaur line: lose poison typing
Venasaur: Grass/Dragon
Charizard: Fire/Dragon, levitate as ability for his wings
Blastoise: Water/Dragon

This means the three starters do neutral fire/grass/water damage to one another in their final form.

Nidoking: Poison/Steel to represent its horn n' tail power that crushes steel. Lots of resistances with only weakness to fire and 4x ground

Nidoqueen: Poison/Fairy is an interesting typing combination

Fearow: pure flying type, why not

Arbok: spooky markings turn it Poison/Dark

Ninetales: becomes Fire/Ghost

Paras: loses Bug, becomes Grass/Poison to represent shroom takeover

Geodude line: Lose ground, be Rock typing only

Doduo line: drop normal for fighting type, they look pugnacious

Seel line: drop ice, pure water type

Shellder line: drop water, pure ice type

Ghastly line: drop poison, Ghost/Dark type

Onix: drop ground, pure Rock so Pikachu can shock it

Hypno: Psychic/Dark based on the doujinshi I read

Krabby/Kingler: Water/Ice with physical ice moves

Voltorb like: Electric/Normal so Extreme Speed and Explosion has STAB

Staryu line: Water/Rock 'cause its got a big gem for the core

Mr Mime: Psychic, doesn't feel fairy enough...

Jynx: Fairy/Dark, there are better snow maiden pokemon that look the ice type art later on

Porygon: Normal/Ghost for some spooky connotation with it being a program come to life

Considering that Mawile isn't made of metal but still has steel type, there's some pokemon with super hard claws/horns/shell that could take on a steel typing.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:34 pm

Koumei wrote:Then what pokemon does that make Bork Laser? Garchomp?

Prak: if you meant just writing out "X pokemon would be Y types" and not doing your own romhack, it shouldn't take very long. I support doing it as a matter of curiosity - I was once sufficiently bored to write out Mega-Evolutions for everything that lacked one. That still didn't take much time and you'd have a fair bit less work to do for your task.

Yeah, that's what I mean. I'm doing some minor tweaks to the types themselves, too. Like Normal can fuck right off, that sort of thing.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:38 am

Prak wrote:After that is the nose. The concept has a lot of promise, but the design is just dumb.

I do believe that is supposed a mouth, my good gentleman, and not a nasal appendage. Unregardless, that Pokemon must and will be forever known as Gamera, for it is really neat and made of turtle meat.