Still more Threads that make us Laugh, Cry, or Both

[Maxus]

Is D&D literature?

Not so much a 'laugh or cry' thing, but It's a bit surprising to have this come up in my freshman writing class.[/url]

Heh, Fantasy gets no love in college writing and, to a lesser degree, sci-fi.

Let's be clear: If I'm sitting down to write something, I have a story in mind. It's mostly likely written for the entertainment other people will get from reading it--or whatever I want to try to make them feel. Sometimes I write to see if I can capture a mood or whatever.

The point is, I'm highly suspicious of anyone who sits down and plans out the moral message of a story and then proceeds to make the actual words a means with which to beat the reader over the head with the message.

There's also this view that thoughtful literature can't be 'fun' or 'funny'. Which is kinda unfair, because some authors like Terry Pratchett can package up a bitter truth in a way that isn't like having your skull punched through and the message tucked halfway through your brain.

Eh, whatever. We live in Post-Modernism. It's all depressing.

[Voss]

I thought we were in Post Post Modernism? I've lost track of whats in vogue right now.

[Psychic Robot]

Pretense never goes out of style.

[CatharzGodfoot]

Yeah, appreciating D&D really is the height of pretension.

[Koumei]

What the fuck is post-modernism, anyway? I know someone who did a course on "post-modern (something)". I forget what the (something) was. At the end, she couldn't tell me what post-modernism is, either.

[Surgo]

I'm not sure but, according to Don Henley, it's a cold cold cold cold cold cold cold cold post-postmodern world.

[Username17]

What the fuck is post-modernism, anyway? I know someone who did a course on "post-modern (something)". I forget what the (something) was. At the end, she couldn't tell me what post-modernism is, either.

Modernism was a philosophical and artistic movement founded in response to the rapid societal changes and technological advancement that characterized the world during the "modern age" - an era framed after the Industrial Revolution and characterized by the invention of the radio, the airplane, and the telephone. With all humanity coming together in a manner never seen before in the history of the world, the modernist philosophies centered around progressivist and industrialist ideologies and theorized that mankind's achievements were virtually limitless. That mankind could reshape their environment into whatever they wanted and that it was a good thing that they do so.

The modern era just about wraps up with World War II and people's general aversion to any system that could kill a hundred million people with bombs and swords. Post modern philosophy spawns various nihilistic movements as well as the science of Ecology, which suggested that perhaps changing the world environment out of recognition wasn't such a great plan after all.

Modernism and Postmodernism brought different things to the table; the Green Revolution, for example, is a collaborative effort between modernist and postmodernist thinkers, as is space travel. Computer networks are a postmodernist invention entirely.

There is a general feeling that there should be an age that comes after postmodernism, because by all rights no age that starts in 1946 should probably be over by now. Reactions against postmodernism include Neoconservatism and Radical Islamic Fundamentalism. Philosophies building on the precepts of postmodern thought include the Fair Trade movement, Informational Anarchism, Globalism. None of these ideas have really managed to get the era named after themselves, so we're basially in "The Information Age" and there happen to be a bunch of movements in art, science, and culture that are heavily indebted to the postmodernist movement.

-Username17

[Prak]

so like a DC (whatever) Kn. religion or perform (prayer) check to mimic the effect of one a small list of spells that are thematically appropriate?

You'd probably get a patron god and a few who listen, and the rest ignore you in anything but exceptional circumstances. Maybe you use action points to activate it. The spells that would occur would be based on what you need the power for and how important it is to that god and its domain (so the god of war would bless you with magic weapons or something to win a battle, but a god of death might only heal some damage if you didn't intend to kill anyone soon).

What about integrating the Obeisance and corruption points system from FC2, along with a few other similar systems introduced spotily, and you get points for worship(basically, if you say, "during our down time, I go to church" you get a couple points) and the various forms of divine intervention are fueled with these points? You'd build your pool, and you would get whatever your current pool was to fuel requests for divine intervention per day, and when you get on your knees and pray for Pelors protection against the Lich, pelor takes it into consideration and if he decides to help you you spend however many points are required for the action he takes?

[Psychic Robot]

Not a bad thread, per se, but something interesting I noticed:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1052962

In 3e, nobody would have batted an eye at a character having a golem. In 4e, though, this is omgdisbalanced!1!1! It just seems very funny to me how 95% of people didn't care about something until AFTER the devs said so.

[Prak]

Is D&D literature?

Not so much a 'laugh or cry' thing, but It's a bit surprising to have this come up in my freshman writing class.[/url]

Heh, Fantasy gets no love in college writing and, to a lesser degree, sci-fi.

Let's be clear: If I'm sitting down to write something, I have a story in mind. It's mostly likely written for the entertainment other people will get from reading it--or whatever I want to try to make them feel. Sometimes I write to see if I can capture a mood or whatever.

The point is, I'm highly suspicious of anyone who sits down and plans out the moral message of a story and then proceeds to make the actual words a means with which to beat the reader over the head with the message.

There's also this view that thoughtful literature can't be 'fun' or 'funny'. Which is kinda unfair, because some authors like Terry Pratchett can package up a bitter truth in a way that isn't like having your skull punched through and the message tucked halfway through your brain.

Eh, whatever. We live in Post-Modernism. It's all depressing.

I actually got some pretty good response in my fiction writing workshop class to what was basically a background story for a D&D character...

[Harlune]

Not a bad thread, per se, but something interesting I noticed:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1052962

In 3e, nobody would have batted an eye at a character having a golem. In 4e, though, this is omgdisbalanced!1!1! It just seems very funny to me how 95% of people didn't care about something until AFTER the devs said so.

Sigh... we're never going to get SoDs, mind control, flexible non-combat utility spells or functional hybrids back now are we...

[Maxus]

Is D&D literature?

Not so much a 'laugh or cry' thing, but It's a bit surprising to have this come up in my freshman writing class.[/url]

Heh, Fantasy gets no love in college writing and, to a lesser degree, sci-fi.

Let's be clear: If I'm sitting down to write something, I have a story in mind. It's mostly likely written for the entertainment other people will get from reading it--or whatever I want to try to make them feel. Sometimes I write to see if I can capture a mood or whatever.

The point is, I'm highly suspicious of anyone who sits down and plans out the moral message of a story and then proceeds to make the actual words a means with which to beat the reader over the head with the message.

There's also this view that thoughtful literature can't be 'fun' or 'funny'. Which is kinda unfair, because some authors like Terry Pratchett can package up a bitter truth in a way that isn't like having your skull punched through and the message tucked halfway through your brain.

Eh, whatever. We live in Post-Modernism. It's all depressing.

I actually got some pretty good response in my fiction writing workshop class to what was basically a background story for a D&D character...

My creative writing teacher was very much a fan of the Death, Depression and Suicide school of writing. Basically, he deducted points for fantasy and happy, or even semi-happy endings, because he felt students who used such weren't taking the assignment seriously.

And your paper would bleed red ink if you tried to turn in a funny story.

And a lot of people from other schools say much the same thing.

[Psychic Robot]

Not a bad thread, per se, but something interesting I noticed:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1052962

In 3e, nobody would have batted an eye at a character having a golem. In 4e, though, this is omgdisbalanced!1!1! It just seems very funny to me how 95% of people didn't care about something until AFTER the devs said so.

Sigh... we're never going to get SoDs, mind control, flexible non-combat utility spells or functional hybrids back now are we...

No.

No, we're not.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

My creative writing teacher was very much a fan of the Death, Depression and Suicide school of writing. Basically, he deducted points for fantasy and happy, or even semi-happy endings, because he felt students who used such weren't taking the assignment seriously.

And your paper would bleed red ink if you tried to turn in a funny story.

And a lot of people from other schools say much the same thing.

Sounds like the divination teacher from the Harry Potter series.

[Voss]

Not a bad thread, per se, but something interesting I noticed:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1052962

In 3e, nobody would have batted an eye at a character having a golem. In 4e, though, this is omgdisbalanced!1!1! It just seems very funny to me how 95% of people didn't care about something until AFTER the devs said so.

Nostalgic retrospect already? I can assure you that lots of people would have freaked over a golem. They wouldn't necessarily have been right to do so (tho' quite a few of the later golems got wacky gamebreaking powers as they were made out of increasingly wacky things).

In a fit of irony, however, a good portion of them (33%-50%) wouldn't bat an eye at the stupid half-golem template that popped up in whatever book.

Though dev approval is becoming more and more a part of them game. Maybe its a cultural thing, I don't know, but groupthink is more and more the order of the day. Something an individual or small group can't be workable or balanced. Or so the Oversoul tells me.

[SphereOfFeetMan]

Though dev approval is becoming more and more a part of them game. Maybe its a cultural thing, I don't know, but groupthink is more and more the order of the day. Something an individual or small group can't be workable or balanced. Or so the Oversoul tells me.

It's just more marketing. WotC has realized they can get more brand loyalty if their big names get more respect. During the run-up to 4e they pushed their designer blogs hard. On Enworld, Iron Heroes was touted as the best 3e had to offer, all thanks to Mike Mearls. WotC grabbed him up, and all the fanboys at Enworld erupted over the news.

Now not only does Team WotC have brand loyalty, they have star designers. The line has been drawn, and an attack upon the game is confused as an attack upon their favorite infallible game designers.

It is both ironic and depressing that many of the designers are dumbasses.

[Absentminded_Wizard]

Wow. How did Iron Heroes become the gold standard of 3.x OGL design? It struck me as some good, some bad, and way too much bookkeeping (admittedly based on just a quick perusal in the store).

And actually I don't think the cult of the devs is a 4e revolution. Around the time 3.5 was in the woks/coming out, lots of people took everything Andy Collins said as gospel. And of course, there's the example of the Mystic Theurge being thought of as overpowered based on what 3.0 devs had said about PrCs and caster levels.

[Psychic Robot]

Well, I suppose I should say that 95% of the people on the WotC forums wouldn't have batted an eye. I wouldn't have, either, though I would have not allowed certain broken things. (My reasoning would be, "Good God, no, you can't have a megaraptor effigy," not, "OH NOES YOU'LL HAVE AN EXTRA TURN!1!!1! ur not sharring!1!")

I suppose I should say that there's suddenly this influx of OMGEXTRAACTIONs when the druid, ranger, wizard, and sorcerer all had that as class features. And so did the cleric and bard, to a lesser extent.

Hmm. It almost reminds me of a moral panic.

[Amra]

[RANT] Oh by all the Evil gods, what in the name of syphilitic goats are these knobrot fanmonkeys TALKING about?!?!?!

Spellcasters should totally be able to animate statues, summon creatures to do their bidding, bend lesser minds to their will, have familiars and all that other good stuff BECAUSE IT'S AWESOME and BECAUSE IT'S A FANTASY GAME and that's WHAT MAKES IT FUCKING WORTH PLAYING IN THE FIRST PLACE. AAAAARGH!

This completely arbitrary developer-imposed moratorium on half the things that make the game recognisable as D&D on the basis that doing so makes the game "fair" is so patronising it makes my blood boil. However, the angry really comes out when I see the stupid sheeple defending it, because of course the real reason is "the developers aren't imaginative enough to figure out how to do it without breaking the game".

The illusion thing is just as bad. It's complete and utter crap. [some damage] + [some status effect] does NOT let me play a master of shadows and trickery you pus-filled, pox-ridden fuckwads!

HatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehateHATE you! HATE you for screwing over my favourite game! I've been playing for SEVENTEEN YEARS without needing some shit-for-brains muppet who can't do basic arithmetic to come along and make my games "fair" for me. Well thank you so very fucking much.

AAAAAARGH!

[/RANT]

I'm *really* going to have to get this out of my system before GenCon. We now return you to your normal programming... *sigh*

[Voss]

Actually, Gencon would likely be more fun if you go in seething with rage.

Patronizing does seem to be the order of the day. Someone has to decided what makes the game fun for you. And you definitely don't have the background to decide that for yourself, because obviously you aren't a 'professional' game designer.

snerk.

[Amra]

I will hurt them. Hurt them with spoons.

[Harlune]

Here's one:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1053130

Started out as someone posting info about a sample swordmage character, then turned into a discussion about how balanced getting a double int bonus to AC would be, (without actually knowing if that's how it will actually work or if Int is the class primary stat) then on to whether it's okay to have some classes be better than others since it's not a pvp game... of course, since it's the CharOp board, everyone arguing for class balance just comes off as being a bit silly really.

On a brighter note, from the example Swordmage class looks pretty interesting even if it's more of a defender version of a Swordsage than a gish, and if INT is a primary or even secondary stat it should multiclass with a wizard pretty well.

And I have to admit, the idea of an armorless tank class that lives and dies by it's protection spells would be pretty novel by D&D standards. Hopefully it won't suffer from MAD, low hitpoints, poor scaling, or any other issue that leaves it a crippled worthless piece of shit like the monk or soulknife...

...oh who am I kidding, every guess made about the class turn out to be wrong , it'll just be heavy armored paladin clone with a slightly different color sfx on his sword attacks and the primary stats will be STR CHA and CON just so it can't multiclass with a wizard worth a crap.

[Psychic Robot]

Harlune, that's what we call "realism."

[Leress]

Okay since you have to resigseter to read this I will give you a snippet of the odd that is the Spoony Experiment...

I just read my friend's copy of the Player's Handbook last week. Nearest I can tell, this is not D&D. This is Baby's First Tabletop.

Alignment issues aside (If your Lawful, you must obviously be Good and if your Chaotic you must obviously be Evil. *sarcasm meter explodes*), am I the only person that really, really, REALLY hates how resting and healing are handled in the new edition? Giant magical battle axe lodged in your skull? NO PROBLEM! Just sleep it off and you'll be back to normal in the morning. Inform When everything that ails you can be fixed as simply as one rest at the inn, suspension of disbelief aside, it takes all the menace out of battles. Completely. Its like you're fighting enemies armed with nerf swords and soft mittens.

And Half Dragons and Half Demons as playable default races? Jesus H. Tap-dancing Christ, its like this game was specifically designed to cater to all the power gaming, feat exploiting, chaotic stupid, munchkin ass-tards that used to infest the table-top fandom like cockroaches.

You guy all know what I'm taking about, because we've all have one of them in our groups at least once. Those guys that were completely convinced that they had to "win" the game and that their stats weren't a part of their character, just a means to an end to "beat" the DM. Those guys that will completely disregard Rule 0 and argue with the DM on any and every decision they don't like. The players that ruin every single well thought out and painstakingly executed plan by going, "I R TEH HALF DRAGON! i BRETH FIRE ON DEM LOL"

And with half dragons as a player race now, expect to hear that phrase a lot.

I have quite a few more complaints, but after reading my friend's copy of 4th ed, I'm so angry, I've gone cross eyed. I need a few hours to calm down. Either way, I don't think I'll be retiring my 3rd ed books anytime soon. If one of my players wants to try out a 4th edition game, I'll gladly run it if he brings the books. I'll swallow my pride and try my best to make the game experience fun, but I won't be shelling out the 105 bucks (plus tax) for the full core book set myself.

Now this is what I call not liking a system for all the wrong reasons.

[Psychic Robot]

Unfortunately, that poster is a moron. Perhaps he can be the new Halaster_Blackcloak.