Compulsory voting - A good idea

cthulhu · Post by **cthulhu** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:24 am

So in australia compuslory voting is the go, and we (for the most part) think its a good idea. I certainly think its a great idea and anything else is straight up stupid.

But whenever you mention this opinion to anyone from overseas, they tend to think you are mad.

So.. compulsory voting. Good idea or what?

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:48 am

I'm voting in this thread because it's compulsory *grin*

Seriously, I think it's a good idea, but people need to be educated beforehand. Even if it's through looking at BBC online articles and watching Good News Week, it's better than nothing, and better than watching Faux News.

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:57 am

We don't exactly have compulsory voting.

We have to turn up to elections and get marked off the electoral roll.

And that's the best way of doing it, because when a bunch of people get so jaded they don't vote for ANYONE we know exactly how many, but not exactly who they are.

I believe there are even some levels of government in Australia with a election recall at a certain level of dud votes. Though of forget which levels and what (potential) states.

Edit: And the American's won't know what you are talking about when you mention good news week unless they remember the song. (hang in there till the end guys, and yes we can't sing a line of our actual national anthem)

So lets say "Daily Show" or something.

Draco_Argentum · Post by **Draco_Argentum** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:38 am

I agree with it. There should also be a 'no confidence' option so we can tell how many people think the candidates suck compared to actual dud votes.

Calibron · Post by **Calibron** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:26 pm

I voted yes. I feel compulsory voting is a good idea, but a woefully ignorant public can turn it into an option about as bad as only granting suffrage to a portion of the citizenry.

I'd be happiest with a short compulsory questionnaire, which you could only fail if you were completely ignorant or wanted to fail, prior to compulsory voting to make sure people have actually taken some minimal notice of the political situation in the last couple of years; failing the questionnaire would nullify your vote or just let you go home without voting.

A No Confidence option is a good idea.

JonSetanta · Post by **JonSetanta** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:34 pm

Us Americans could never have such a movement. We seem resistant to change as a nation.

Many citizens would riot and protest and BAWWW about being required to vote, since doing so would deny them one of their 'freedoms'.

That, and Florida would find some way to fuck it up. Somehow.

Judging__Eagle · Post by **Judging__Eagle** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:00 pm

Depends how it's handled.

Quesitonarre's would need to be done every so often and take time to process.

Even a Census happens every 4 or so years.

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:27 pm

Compulsory voting is like forcing people to be free.

As red-blooded Americans, we should have the freedom to not choose our leader!

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:57 pm

Under the Australian system, many people vote who otherwise would not be bothered to. The question is, do you want those people to be voting?

If a person isn't inclined to vote, they also probably aren't inclined to be informed on the issues they're voting on.

The Matthew · Post by **The Matthew** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:27 pm

I have no confidance in a compulsary voting system, It's not that I think it shouldn't happen, I just think that few good things could happen because of it and alot of terrible things would happen.

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:00 pm

Most people don't have a cursory idea of what they're voting for.

But, compulsory voting might at least give a boost to the 'little guys'.

No confidence voting is the same as 'ehh, don't care' voting. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. If they don't care, I don't care about their whining, either.

One of the larger problems in voting in the US is that it's done: On a workday, within narrow hours, and there's no laws protecting a worker's right to participate or that all districts must have the same number of voting machines per voter. Also, each state verifies its results differently, to different standards (See Fla fucking up). Some states - like Texas's primary - give double votes to those with extra time.

Compulsory voting is kinda the last worry we have. We currently cannot accept even the number of voters we have in some areas, nor can we recount or verify that they've voted.

-Crissa

cthulhu · Post by **cthulhu** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:37 am

There is some (limited) evidence that compulsory voting actually increases political awareness - people are figuring that if they have to vote they should figure out who to vote for.

Part of the charm of compulsory voting is that it means that the local authorities actually have to accomdate everyone - because everyone will get fined if they don't, which is likely to lead to a riot. So the australian electoral commission actually takes great care to deliver good coverage.

shau · Post by **shau** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:37 am

I voted no, because I once knew I guy who voted based on which politician had the sillier name, and I want him as far away from the polls as possible. Crissa and cthulhu have a good point in that such a law would probably make sure that there is not a three hour line in the poor district before you can vote.

JonSetanta · Post by **JonSetanta** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:56 am

Just now I voted YES but with the same stipulation that Koumei added, as if such a decision were to affect my own country or as if I were Aus.

Voters must be informed both before and during the election, right up to the point when they place their choice in whatever booth system or mail-in you Aussies have.
It's no good in just forcing reluctant citizens to vote since they will carelessly toss a random swing depending on which talking head has best hair, height, biggest tits, or cheesiest grin (I really don't know what criteria these freaks use instead of actual party policies and stands, but apparently hair is very important.)

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:11 am

Sigma: We have booths, but mail-in is an option for those who can't make it there (for instance, they're in hospital or overseas). Generally, people from minor parties hover outside trying to sway your vote, whereas the two "actual competitors" just have huge posters with the face, name and party.

Often it's the Fascist First group that hover around. I find the best reply is to put on a fake German accent and say:

"Oh, jah! Ve haff heard of you in der muzerlund! Jah, jah, off course ve vill vote for you! Zieg heil! Oh, sorry, I forgot, not supposed to say it in public, jah!"

cthulhu · Post by **cthulhu** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:52 am

I'm totally not convinced about the number of people who just pick a name at random on the ballot paper. Sure they might vote for Peter Garret because he was a rock star who sang about the enviroment and shit, but I'm not convineced that isn't a perfectly valid perspective.

Equally, given that we randomize ballot papers (because we are not retarded) I don;t think 'random' voting can actually influence the outcome.

'stupid' voting might be, but its rather elitist to say 'well, you are utterly wrong for voting for Howard because you think he best represents your values because your wrong' maybe closet racism is one of his values.

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:12 am

Actually having stood outside the polls handing out how to votes I'll point out that its less about swaying undecideds as it is about reassuring and encouraging your existing base.

Also the minor parties have minimal if any presence compared to the majors (especially labour) who have the people power and organisation to field multiple people in multiple shifts at basically all polling stations in our region.

I could tell you some weird stories from doing that job.

but its rather elitist to say 'well, you are utterly wrong for voting for Howard because you think he best represents your values because your wrong' maybe closet racism is one of his values.

Not really. But it IS elitist to say those people therefore shouldn't actually get a vote.

Which is ultimately a part of what the anti compulsory voting crowd are saying. Dumb people, as defined by the standard of not wanting to (or not getting around to) vote, should therefore not get to vote, not even cast a null vote, just in case they vote "I'm with stupid".

If ignorance is a problem I think we should just have enforced civics and politics classes in high school, kinda stupid that we don't already really, we can replace that fucking history course on fucking ANZAC warrior worship mythology. That and continue to fund the ABC (and boost funding to SBS) we actually have one of the best 4th estates in the world and we should keep it that way.

And also, oddly, its generally accepted that removal of compulsory voting would actually help pork barrel/bait and switch politicians like Howard who rely on an uninformed easily duped electorate. Apparently the "greedy but too dumb to know what's really good for them" crowd are expected to turn up even if it isn't compulsory.

Draco_Argentum · Post by **Draco_Argentum** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:46 am

Crissa wrote:One of the larger problems in voting in the US is that it's done: On a workday, within narrow hours

o.O I just assumed that putting it on a weekend was universal. Thats freaking retarded.

PL wrote:If ignorance is a problem I think we should just have enforced civics and politics classes in high school, kinda stupid that we don't already really, we can replace that fucking history course on fucking ANZAC warrior worship mythology

Yes on civics/politics no on removing the ANZAC bit. Its one of the best examples of why being in wars is stupid. Thousands of dead on both sides for zero gain in a war that had nothing to do with us in the first place is about the most emphatic way to make the point.

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:12 pm

Draco_Argentum wrote:no on removing the ANZAC bit. Its one of the best examples of why being in wars is stupid. Thousands of dead on both sides for zero gain in a war that had nothing to do with us in the first place is about the most emphatic way to make the point.

That's not how they teach it though, not in any school I've been to. Or heard of.

It's taught as a great Australian victory against hardship. How we victoriously did very well at dieing, retreating and "forging our national identity" on some random fucking battlefield in Turkey.

And that's not what it's become in Australian society. It's pure mythological warrior worship. "Lest We Forget" has become deeply and sadly ironic.

John Howard is to blame for recent excess in that regard but the trend toward transforming it into a nationalistic warrior worship event has been around for a long time now.

Do you think the record numbers of Australians flooding Gallipoli each year are running out there to feel regret and sorrow at a generation wasted and to remind us never again to fall for such nationalistic lies?

Or are they going there to worship those very same nationalistic lies and glorify to warriors who "gave their lives for us"?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:13 pm

DA wrote:o.O I just assumed that putting it on a weekend was universal. Thats freaking retarded.

Yeah, in the US, voting is done on a single Tuesday and the polls stay open for about 12 hours. Seriously. And you have to vote in a specific precinct which is assigned to you based on where you live, not on where you are going to be on election day. Seriously.

The US has the greatest electoral system of the 18th century, and has so much inertia that it will probably continue to hold on to that claim until the empire finally collapses. I strongly suspect that an eastern segment of the empire will hold on for another six hundred years with a system that is downright Byzantine.

-Username17

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:51 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:I strongly suspect that an eastern segment of the empire will hold on for another six hundred years with a system that is downright Byzantine.

You've just reserved yourself a special place in punning hell right next to Pikachu. He'll look at you with big watery eyes for all eternity, as you helplessly continue to make more and more esoteric history puns.

JonSetanta · Post by **JonSetanta** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:06 am

FrankTrollman wrote: The US has the greatest electoral system of the 18th century, and has so much inertia that it will probably continue to hold on to that claim until the empire finally collapses. I strongly suspect that an eastern segment of the empire will hold on for another six hundred years with a system that is downright Byzantine.

-Username17

And when will our great empire of New Rome collapse, o sage?

cthulhu · Post by **cthulhu** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:59 am

Draco_Argentum wrote:
Crissa wrote:One of the larger problems in voting in the US is that it's done: On a workday, within narrow hours
o.O I just assumed that putting it on a weekend was universal. Thats freaking retarded.

Don't worry. Everyone is on the captain retarded bandwagon as well. For example, the UK has elections on a Thursday

Why? I can only assume it is because they are completely stupid, but there you go.

Its the side benefits of compulsory voting that make for the sheer awesome of it. Business owners won't stand up for having all their workers take a 3 hour lunch break to drive back to their seat, vote and drive back to work, so its on a weekend. Which is clearly much better because I estimate that the vast major of people work during the week, and the vast majorty of those who don't work shift work so it is easy to vote before or after your shift ends.

But anyway, I'm slightly disapointed. Normally when you talk about this you get a bunch of people complaining about how their rights are being infringed by you making them vote, but it didn't happen. I guess this group is in the right place for that to be the case, or just that we have lots of australians (who are, seemingly have a different take on it)

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:32 am

Look, even if it were on a weekend, so what?

Most minimum wage jobs don't respect weekends anyhow. If you can't make it on a weekday, you're unlikely to do any better chance on any other day of the week except Sunday - and we know that's both a sin and a huge bonus to some religion or other.

-Crissa

Draco_Argentum · Post by **Draco_Argentum** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:08 am

If you honestly can't make it we have mail in votes. Really anyone can vote over here.

PL, thats rather the slant my history teacher gave. WW1 was retarded and WW2 was WW1's fault is the short version. Not that we likely had the same history teacher.

The Gaming Den

Compulsory voting - A good idea

Is Compulsory voting a good idea

Compulsory voting - A good idea