Eberron Sucks?

[Koumei]

Verbal Components

The answers are manifold:
-Make the "verbal component" crackling energy or whatever other psionic noise you like, instead of words.
-Use psychic powers from something other than whatever you're thinking of. For instance, the GrimDark Psykers have incantations, and psychic anime characters are required by law to scream their attack names out.
-Die in a fire, psychic-lover. WE FOUND A WITCH!
(Er, I mean, "I don't ever want psi stuff being core, so I'm fine with that type of psionics requiring rule modifications from the witches.")

Somatic Components (and ASF)

Why do their powers have to be done standing still? Plenty of psychic characters in fiction wave their arms around, such as bodily hurling bolts of psionic energy, holding their hands to their heads (and chanting "OM NOM NOM NOM!!!") to do telepathic things, etc.

Also, see the bit about burning the witches/forcing psi-fans to make their own shit rather than making the core rules allow it.

Insignificant Material Components

Forget the feat, just don't bother mentioning the components. Seriously, no-one ever cares. As for the bit about flavour, I could either say "Good! Ha! Suck on it, Trebek!" or I could say "Only one type of flavour."

[JonSetanta]

-Make the "verbal component" crackling energy or whatever other psionic noise you like, instead of words.

"Get ready for a world of hurt! Krrrkkrkrkrkzzzzpssshhhhhzzzzzffffshhhh!"

"What are hell are you doing with your mouth?"

"*slurp* Oh, this? This is, uh, this is my verbal component."

[Koumei]

Well the idea is that instead of saying anything, psychic noises are made. Static crackling, buzzing or whatever. It fills the same purpose: makes noise so people know something is about to happen.

[JonSetanta]

Perhaps if making noise to alert others was the universal objective.

However, with magic the noisemaking is irregular. Some spells need it, some don't.
For those that do, the spell won't work unless the caster provides the noise.

With psionics the noise is equally as common as making bad stink or a lazorz show, yet all of that is part of the effect and silencing/de-stinking/putting the psion in the dark will not stop a power from activating.

[Username17]

Yeah psionic displays have always been pointless. Especially ectoplasm.

-Username17

[NoDot]

Somatic Components (and ASF)

Why do their powers have to be done standing still? Plenty of psychic characters in fiction wave their arms around, such as bodily hurling bolts of psionic energy, holding their hands to their heads (and chanting "OM NOM NOM NOM!!!") to do telepathic things, etc.

Arcane. Spell. Failure.

Also, see the bit about burning the witches/forcing psi-fans to make their own shit rather than making the core rules allow it.

My comments were in reply to attempting to reflavor the Sorcerer. I was pointing out why that didn't work as written.

Yeah psionic displays have always been pointless.

They're around to say "sothing's going on." (That isn't useful when you're using your Space Laser, but it works for the less obvious powers.)

The pointlessness of stopping the displays was, in this case, I think, intended to be a feature rather than a bug. (Good tools are there, but they just didn't apply then correctly.)

[CatharzGodfoot]

Yeah psionic displays have always been pointless.

They're around to say "sothing's going on." (That isn't useful when you're using your Space Laser, but it works for the less obvious powers.)

The pointlessness of stopping the displays was, in this case, I think, intended to be a feature rather than a bug. (Good tools are there, but they just didn't apply then correctly.)

You know, I agree. Astral bukake is an integral part of the flavor of psychic control. When someone tries to remove the ectoplasmic facial from psionic charm person, it's time to put down your foot and say, 'No!'

How the hell is a telepath supposed to charm someone? Augmentation? Concentrating really hard? No. It's the psi-spooge. Without it, there is absolutely no psionic flavor left, unless perhaps you consider the crystals. I personally won't stand for that sort of wanton raping of my favorite pet magic system.

[Judging__Eagle]

Oh, well. Pffft.

Just like when I played a Ranger, and called it a Soulknife.

One question, how did you handle the whole mindblade-y aspect of that and the scaling issues, or did you just say that every time you found/bought/stole a new weapon, it was actually your glowy energy mind penis thingy going up a level?

The second.

I used magical 'tattoos' (bows) on my hands, that got more and more intricate.

The 'focus stones' that allowed me to 'fire' the bolts were magical crystals (arrows).

Seriously, it worked better than playing an actual SK.

NoDot.

Traditionally, Mentalists and Mages were the same thing. Only with recent times have we seperated the Psion from the Sorcerer.

Can you seriously tell me a story where a telepath would wear massive combat armour and would carry weapons, instead of trusting in their insane mental powers!

Also, where the hell did ectoplasm come from? I've heard and seen photos of the fake stuff that mediums conjured, but I can't think of how "mind powers" = "flesh coloured goop."

[Harlune]

Can you seriously tell me a story where a telepath would wear massive combat armour and would carry weapons, instead of trusting in their insane mental powers!

WH40k Eldar, the various urza style armored casters in Magic, and I think a few of the telepathic guys from the x-men have worn armor and used weapons from time to time.

[JonSetanta]

Can you seriously tell me a story where a telepath would wear massive combat armour and would carry weapons, instead of trusting in their insane mental powers!

Also, where the hell did ectoplasm come from? I've heard and seen photos of the fake stuff that mediums conjured, but I can't think of how "mind powers" = "flesh coloured goop."

Why would they NOT wear any armor?
Psionics is like Divine; you can without penalty and you don't (usually) fight melee, so it's all benefit aside from the movement penalty.

Ectoplasm is from the turn of the century period of a 'psychic renaissance'; mediums, seances, astral journeyers abound.
Many psychics claimed to deal with the goop yet few produced evidence of ectoplasm (always in a dark room, too) and none could do so under exacting scientific observation.
Personally, I've never seen it nor have I been able to create or 'manifest' it. Seems to me like a big personal joke.

"Hurr hurr you're playing with ghost spooge."

Seriously. Orgone energy. Read up on it.

[Cielingcat]

Can you seriously tell me a story where a telepath would wear massive combat armour and would carry weapons, instead of trusting in their insane mental powers!

WH40k Eldar, the various urza style armored casters in Magic, and I think a few of the telepathic guys from the x-men have worn armor and used weapons from time to time.

Urza's power armor in Magic was awesome.

I wonder how one of his Titan Engines would fare against a 40k Titan...

[Prak]

Somatic Components (and ASF)

Why do their powers have to be done standing still? Plenty of psychic characters in fiction wave their arms around, such as bodily hurling bolts of psionic energy, holding their hands to their heads (and chanting "OM NOM NOM NOM!!!") to do telepathic things, etc.

Arcane. Spell. Failure.

the thing with arcane spell failure is that unless somatic components require a caster to be a double jointed contortionist twisting his fingers around or they require hand signs like naruto powers, it's not so much "gauntlets restrick your movement" as a rifts style "metal makes mages cry".

Also, see the bit about burning the witches/forcing psi-fans to make their own shit rather than making the core rules allow it.

My comments were in reply to attempting to reflavor the Sorcerer. I was pointing out why that didn't work as written.

Psionics is retroactively core, it's basically a tack-on system that doesn't force the core rules to do a damn thing, even this doesn't reflect that. maybe the psion-sorc has to do special chants and hand signs and wave little idols of ganeesh to make his mental powers work. fuck, anthropologically speaking, that's what sorcery is, mind powers, and some cultures have complex rituals for their brain killing stuff.

Yeah psionic displays have always been pointless.

They're around to say "sothing's going on." (That isn't useful when you're using your Space Laser, but it works for the less obvious powers.)

The pointlessness of stopping the displays was, in this case, I think, intended to be a feature rather than a bug. (Good tools are there, but they just didn't apply then correctly.)

the question is, does removing material and somatic components unbalance things? I don't think it does... fuck, the caster knows they get raped in grappling so they stay out of it, is it really going to affect things if we say "go ahead, grapple, you can still cast?"

[Judging__Eagle]

Can you seriously tell me a story where a telepath would wear massive combat armour and would carry weapons, instead of trusting in their insane mental powers!

WH40k Eldar, the various urza style armored casters in Magic, and I think a few of the telepathic guys from the x-men have worn armor and used weapons from time to time.

I said a story, like a myth or fable.

Even then you don't see the people who actually have those powers using them at the same time as they are using their conventional equipment.

The Farseers don't hulk out on Combat Drugs and cut landraiders in two the way a Striking Scorpion Exarch would.

The Urza-Style armours sometimes have odd (and drastic) penalties and the people who used them where not exactly mages on the same playing level as most people that play D&D. They literally create races, war pan-planar wars and live for centuries.

The people in X-Men who are telepaths tend to have to make some sort of gesture when they try to achieve some sort of Psychic effect. You never see Jean Grey running around with a assault rifle and using her TK powers to sheild herself from enemy attacks at the same time.

Personally, I don't see a reason why a Psion should be able to mask what they're going to do.

If it's innate, then it's use will have weird mistakes and not be perfect looking, but it will work. The sort of mistakes that occur from habit, maybe they always point their finger or babble some word or their powers manifested when they first lifted a rock with their mind or shot fire from their fingers.

Maybe if they're trained, but gesturing and focusing would help to make your mind get in the right place to manifest your abilities.

In the same way that you type best when sitting down with your arms supported, you probably are able to use telekinesis easier when you whisper 'lift' and hold your hand out to the rock you're trying to lift in the air.

Really "cast while not being obvious" should be a feat, not an innate class feature.

Of course, that's just my belief. Perhaps you can do everything that you do equally well in any position, I don't know.

[NoDot]

[You know, I agree. Astral bukake is an integral part of the flavor of psychic control. When someone tries to remove the ectoplasmic facial from psionic charm person, it's time to put down your foot and say, 'No!'

How the hell is a telepath supposed to charm someone? Augmentation? Concentrating really hard? No. It's the psi-spooge. Without it, there is absolutely no psionic flavor left, unless perhaps you consider the crystals. I personally won't stand for that sort of wanton raping of my favorite pet magic system.

Shall I take it that you enjoy the smell of burning strawmen?

Personally, I don't see a reason why a Psion should be able to mask what they're going to do.

This is why Displays exist.

If it's innate, then it's use will have weird mistakes and not be perfect looking, but it will work. The sort of mistakes that occur from habit, maybe they always point their finger or babble some word or their powers manifested when they first lifted a rock with their mind or shot fire from their fingers.

Maybe if they're trained, but gesturing and focusing would help to make your mind get in the right place to manifest your abilities.

Such things, however, remain optional. Their failure does not make the effect fail.

maybe the psion-sorc has to do special chants and hand signs and wave little idols of ganeesh to make his mental powers work.

Then they aren't mental powers: they're some sort of formula.

[Prak]

[quote="NoDot]

maybe the psion-sorc has to do special chants and hand signs and wave little idols of ganeesh to make his mental powers work.

Then they aren't mental powers: they're some sort of formula.[/quote]

magic and mental powers can still have formulas.

[Koumei]

The Farseers don't hulk out on Combat Drugs and cut landraiders in two the way a Striking Scorpion Exarch would.

I'm pretty sure the Uplifting Primer states that Land Raiders are made of a substance even harder than Dragonforce (THE HARDEST METAL!), and an Exarch would be lucky to scratch it.

Meanwhile, putting sticks and stones in the vents of a Falcon Grav-tank would totally destroy it/make it crash *sigh*

[NoDot]

[quote="NoDot]

maybe the psion-sorc has to do special chants and hand signs and wave little idols of ganeesh to make his mental powers work.

Then they aren't mental powers: they're some sort of formula.

magic and mental powers can still have formulas.[/quote]Formulas which require you to wave your arms about and speak gibberish-sounding "words" to do something?

The first nine levels of Conduit to the Lower Planes strikes me as more in line with Psionics than a Sorcerer.

[Draco_Argentum]

Actually a Farseer can cut a land raider in two. Str 9 with a witchblade. Not that they wear conventional armour, more than a D&D wizard though.

[Cielingcat]

The Farseers don't hulk out on Combat Drugs and cut landraiders in two the way a Striking Scorpion Exarch would.

I'm pretty sure the Uplifting Primer states that Land Raiders are made of a substance even harder than Dragonforce (THE HARDEST METAL!), and an Exarch would be lucky to scratch it.

Meanwhile, putting sticks and stones in the vents of a Falcon Grav-tank would totally destroy it/make it crash *sigh*

In truth, Falcons are immortal and never die or are harmed ever by anything.

[Judging__Eagle]

Koumei, yes, I saw it happen, multiple times.

This was back in 2nd Ed though, so pretenting that there was balance wasn't always an option. Usually it was, but then wierd things would happen.

Actually a Farseer can cut a land raider in two. Str 9 with a witchblade. Not that they wear conventional armour, more than a D&D wizard though.

Roll a 5 or better to by-pass the 14 Armor, right? In any case, damn.

Stupid powercreep and stupid wizards beating barbarians at their own schtick.

Oh wait, we're not talking 3.5. Lulz.

Really, what would bother me about a Psion running around in full plated armour, as well as packing a longsword and a heavy sheild; is that I don't recognize the character as "mental powers person" anymore.

Especially if they can do 3.5 Wizard/Sorcerer level powers, not "know one power at a time" like WH40K Psykers tend to do (well, in the last ed. I checked at least).

I'd rather be able to tell what a character is by looking at them; which is sort of why I want to play WAR when it comes out, but probably won't since the people that I play WoW with won't switch to it.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

This is a little late, but warhammer fantasy also has spellcasters in full armor fairly frequently. (You have exceptions, for example Ogre spellcasters don't wear armor, that's due to a cultural restriction.)

[NoDot]

Really, what would bother me about a Cleric running around in full plated armour, as well as packing a longsword and a heavy sheild; is that I don't recognize the character as "God-fearing Priest" anymore.

Ahem. 'Nuf said.

[Koumei]

NoDot: Although I roll my eyes at your defence of a game-addition I despise, I have to say I agree with you on that point. I'd kind of like to see clerics not wearing full plate, and doing more "stand at the back and throw spells around".

To those who disagree with the Uplifting Primer: that's probably a crime punishable by death, you realise? (Yes I know the Uplifting Primer is made of lies.)

[Draco_Argentum]

I'd rather be able to tell what a character is by looking at them; which is sort of why I want to play WAR when it comes out, but probably won't since the people that I play WoW with won't switch to it.

Luckily for me I don't need to drag anyone out of WoW, WAR it is for me.

Psions in fullplate, yes please. I liked the Psy-Warrior archetype. Mechanically not so well done, I think something like the Tome monk would be a better way to do it.

[NoDot]

I don't recall saying that Psionics was up to Tome-level spec. (Although it is less exploitable than Arcane and Divine Magic-whatever that may be worth.)