The Biden Administration (No Lago)

[MGuy]

I think the only way this fucks up Trump's plans is if they actually jail him or put him under house arrest. They could've done something to him before now for defying the court like 10 times but each time there is an opportunity to give him a punishment not only suitable for his crimes and behavior but would actually hinder him (like seizing a bunch of his properties) somehow the people who would do it without a second thought to most if not all Americans keep deciding not to. So I'm doubtful that anything is substance is going to come out of this though I would find it very funny if he does get incarcerated.

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

I absolutely don't buy that this makes him stronger.

It's what the majority of the polls seem to say.

Which is why I wouldn't recommend celebrating it as a big win vs Trump.

It's unfortunate that it's a minor state case about campaign finance stuff instead of a real case about his public crimes

Which is why I don't especially care for it as a win in it's own right and why I also think it was strategically a bad move politically to focus on it when there were better crimes to go with.

I might also suggest that if there was a case best suited for Trump to "win by losing", if that is possible, this one is probably the one.

[Kaelik]

My default analysis for what happens is:

Normal person: locked up.
Rich person: let go. (More specifically some fucking probation and the probation officer is never going to do shit no matter what trump does.)
Rich person who repeatedly threatened the judge: maybe locked up.

But I am not saying this destroys trumps electoral chances or whatever. I'm saying it doesn't help, it does hurt.

But obviously how much is to be determined, and Joe biden has already announced he's going to make sure it's as little as possible because he doesn't want to talk about it or let any other Democratic campaign person talk about it.

[Kaelik]

It's what the majority of the polls seem to say.

I haven't seen any poll showing this and I'm hard pressed to imagine any poll methodology that would demonstrate this.

Which is why I wouldn't recommend celebrating it as a big win vs Trump.

The win is if he sees jail time. No one is celebrating because they think the election is cancelled.

Which is why I don't especially care for it as a win in it's own right and why I also think it was strategically a bad move politically to focus on it when there were better crimes to go with.

No one was "politically focusing" on this crime instead of others.

The biden admin's position has always been and still was after this conviction "Trump is above the law, we will never talk about his crimes. Inflation is down or something" and that's exactly what he said after these 34 guilty verdicts.

This trial about a crime in 2016, involved the prosecutor of NY refusing to file charges for years, just like in Georgia, just like the federal case in Florida and the federal case in DC. Because no one wanted to be the first one to file charges, and merrick garland on biden's express command, was making sure no federal charges were filed. (I think they might have filed the "please give us documents back" charges during this time, but maybe not.)

Then the January 6th committee forced enough pressure that garland appointed a special prosecutor, at which point suddenly two state prosecutions and a federal prosecution for January 6th went forward almost immediately.

Because all the lawyers are big cowards who needed to know that they would be part of a group before doing their job.

The NY trial just wrapped up quickly because trials don't actually take that long if you want to get to them, and the NY trial has the least pointless delay from trumps assorted delay tactics since it doesn't involve any gop judges, or judges he appointed.

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

No one was "politically focusing" on this crime instead of others.

I'm not saying the choice to prosecute when and how they did was the "political focus".

I know the process is a messy bunch of nonsense to the point that even if they did want to expedite one prosecution over another for political gain they aren't really competent enough to do so. And Trumps prosecutions if any have proven that and more about the state of your legal system at the moment.

I'm talking about the breathless media attention from the political media class. The actual focus of the politics surrounding the trails.

There is only so much political capital you can spend or raise off prosecuting Trump. I think wasting it on this one and the give us our documents back stuff was a mistake. Actually a more than one mistake.

I'm saying you Kaelik, you personally, expended far to much TV air time on this trail and your endless breathless political analysis on morning news TV shows that this was going to bring down Trump was wrong and counterproductive to your obvious fanatically pro Biden agenda.

As for the polling, maybe I'm seeing different media to you but for me it was so ubiquitous over such a long period I simply assumed it was general knowledge.

[Kaelik]

They covered the trial that was happening instead of the ones not happening.

That's a pretty straightforward analysis.

All the hypothetical trial coverage you can do in February of 2025 is not relevant in May of 2024.

Also odd to think that the media has the goal of trump losing election. If anything most of them would prefer the opposite.

[PseudoStupidity]

The NYT and WaPo followed the trial very closely, and it was definitely annoying because who cares what Stormy Daniels says about creepy rapist Trump's dick, and because it sidelined, you know, actual fucking news instead of whether or not the Crime President did Crimes (he did and we all know it). I don't think the trial will have much of an effect unless Trump gets jailed, and I would be shocked if they stuck Trump in jail because he's rich and will definitely go on a revenge quest if he becomes president.

I hope he loses the election from prison, but I still think it's a big old toss-up that is just slightly in Trump's favor. I guess we'll see when new polls come out? Still pretty far from the election, though.

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

Also odd to think that the media has the goal of trump losing election. If anything most of them would prefer the opposite.

You live in a world where there wasn't a large chunk of loosely democrat aligned media figures constantly talking up the prospects of somehow magically ending Trumps chances at re-election? By means of him being revealed to have Russia gated/Gotten caught with documents/various fraud being found out/losing this case/going to jail for any or all the things/no this time for sure?

You are just gas lighting at this point. There has definitely been a media hype movement surrounding this, surrounding EVERY crime real or imagined that Trump or anyone remotely adjacent to him has committed. Trump has had the media declaring his career over within the fortnight because of crime scandal the next most one. More often even than they have declared Russia is 2 weeks away from losing the war in Ukraine.

And "the media" or a large chunk of it DO have the (self proclaimed) goal of Trump losing the election, they have openly stated as much on a regular basis for years. They blame themselves giving endless free coverage for him winning the first election. They decided to reform and restrain themselves from doing the thing that helped him... they talked about THAT with endless hype as well... and of course are now doing that one thing again ANYWAY because they cannot restrain or control themselves in the face of relatively unchanged base motivations.

[Kaelik]

Yeah PL, you are just being an incredible moron here. The media covered endless presidential scandals and now it's covering the presidential candidates trial? This can only prove that trump's former campaign manager and various Trump donors want him to lose, and definitely not that the news media is engaged in the same endless scandal hyping the've always done! Also very funny to say that the media has hyped "every crime, real or imagined" because they have covered very few imagined ones and missed about 95% of the real ones. He's still the president, no ever hyped any of the crimes the president does all the time.

Various parts of the media did breathlessly ask if his career would be over every 2 weeks, and those same media breathlessly reported about how today was the day Trump finally turned the corner and finally Became President every 2 weeks. It's almost like their thing was doing endless coverage not attempting to force him to resign/prevent him from running.

Baffling that you can be like "they cried about how their endless coverage won him the election and now they promised to sink him this time with endless coverage" and somehow came away with the idea that they all seriously have a goal of defeating him, instead of you know, the endless coverage.

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

Various parts of the media did breathlessly ask if his career would be over every 2 weeks, and those same media breathlessly reported about how today was the day Trump finally turned the corner and finally Became President every 2 weeks.

Those were very different parts of the media and you know it. Fox news had a very different approach to others.

Baffling that you can be like "they cried about how their endless coverage won him the election and now they promised to sink him this time with endless coverage" and somehow came away with the idea that they all seriously have a goal of defeating him, instead of you know, the endless coverage.

No, They cried about how their endless free coverage, even negative, in their eyes won Trump the election. They did so extensively on air. Then they promised that next time they would restrict such coverage in order to defeat him. They are clearly failing in that goal because, just like the first time, they are chasing ratings and easy stories that let them distract from things they do not want to cover.

I'm prepared to believe them on the bare face of their claims, they had a goal they very clearly stated. They just cannot meet that goal.

It's much like the media promised that this year they would definitely eat healthier, exercise more and lose weight.

It's clear a lot of the media outside of Fox is openly hostile in its coverage, not that it matters, if anything that just helps Trump.

[MGuy]

I remember discourse about whether or not actually talking so much about Trump likely got him elected but I do not remember any major discourse about media being more responsible about their coverage of anything. I'm sure there are individuals who might want media to be better but that doesn't seem to transform into better industry practices. In fact, to date, only lawsuits seem to have effected the right wing propagandists and only a little. The thing is if someone is listening to Fox, daily wire, oan, or any of that they are already sold on right with politics and it isn't difficult to just live here and only hear about their latest talking point from other media outlets. There was talk back when Trump got in office about how do they deal with someone who lies as much as Trump. Of course we all know that these politicians lie but Trump is just a bit to crass with his lies. That discourse never went anywhere because when have bootlickers ever known what to do when the boot is rearing back to kick them in the teeth?

Standard outlets like cnn and NYT, on the other hand , do not seem to be all that concerned about being responsible with what they put out. I think their coverage of Gaza has proven that much. I don't think the people there are keen on another Trump win. If you sense they are not acting like Trump is a threat or don't seem to be acting in a way to mitigate that that I'd say that's just the usual failure 'centrists' have with assessing and addressing the threat of fascism. I don't view that as wanting Trump to win. It's more like they 1. Have a different set of priorities (like ratings or the demands of the oligarchs that run the networks) and 2. Are ill equipped to recognize or act against any threat that the systems they worship inevitably produce.

If you've been watching outlets like those and not the right wing gate mills their reporting looks more like our resident NYT enjoyer's posts. Mainly the strat around the shows that are more nakedly pro Biden have been trying to assure the people in this country that they aren't as poor as they are, Biden isn't as old as he obviously is, that we can't know that Israel is doing war crimes (and isn't actually calling it a genocide and protesting it antisemitic?), etc etc. Though the last one has become increasingly difficult for them to justify when even the Dem bootlickers start getting uncomfortable with just the sheer amount of atrocities the IDF are performing.

[Kaelik]

Those were very different parts of the media and you know it. Fox news had a very different approach to others.

No they weren't. Fox News didn't say trump "finally became president" when he ordered an attack in Sudan, or dropped the moab, or assassinated Sulemani. That was cnn and msnbc.

Fox News did Fox News things the whole time, but CNN alternated between "Trump has become president" and "wow this is so bad" because they just do breathless coverage of most recent events.

they are chasing ratings and easy stories

Amazing you keep typing this without realizing what it shows.

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

No they weren't. Fox News didn't say trump "finally became president" when he ordered an attack in Sudan, or dropped the moab, or assassinated Sulemani. That was cnn and msnbc.

I think you will find that Fox news said very similar things far more often than CNN or MSNBC did. And you know it, you are just being obtuse troll.

I also think you will find that CNN and MSNBC did not say that "every two weeks". I think you will find they said it maybe two times ever when Trumps policies very briefly and perfectly aligned with the standard centrist elite consensus predominantly on hawkish foreign policy.

You are deliberately exaggerating in an attempt to just be obtuse and contrarian.

Amazing you keep typing this without realizing what it shows.

You honestly believe that the bulk of the centrist media cannot be anti Trump while simultaneously being unable to restrain themselves from trying to profit off him?

You honestly think that Morning Joe thinks in his head that he isn't fighting the good fight against Trump and for Biden?

[Kaelik]

PL.

How are you this fucking stupid?

Fox News never once said trump has finally become president. Because "Trump has become president" is only something you say if you were saying he wasn't presidential a week ago.

"The media doesn't want donald trump to be president deep in their heart of hearts, but institutionally acts exactly like someone who doesn't care if he's president or not." Damn Pl that's fucking real important and not entirely pointless.

For every morning Joe who doesn't like trump but who acts exactly like it doesn't matter there's a manager or ceo or shareholder who actively wants trump to be president.

Who cares what a person wants. We are talking about what the institutions do.

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

We are talking about what the institutions do.

No. Only you are in order to make your obtuse tangential point that in no way contradicts what I have been talking about.

When I talk about "the media" I'm talking about the people that work in it, as straight up media figures and as political media personas. If I want to talk about the corporations and billionaires that own the media, I will use words to say that.

Morning Joe exists. The bulk of the US media ecosystem is made out of Morning Joes. The only part of it most people, even most Democrat politicians, interact with are all Morning Joes. All media strategy in your nation is filtered through Morning Joes. Or, sometimes, Fox news.

Did corporations and the mega rich design the Morning Joe food chain? Yes. Like three fail son generations ago. So what. Do you know what Billionaires are like? You haven't at least noticed it recently? THEY ARE MORE MORNING JOES. Possibly even stupider than that.

The machine has in built biases and was designed with a definite almost singular agenda. In the fucking 70s.

But like any machine it isn't very smart or adaptable. Why would it be, it's built out of and for Morning Joes. Trump is basically invalid data input that the media machine cannot properly process because no one has overhauled its programming since the 80s.

[Kaelik]

Amazing.

You shold write a book about it called "manufacturiing consent doesn't exist, there are no institutions, it's just the personal opinions of individual reporters and definitely don't notice any tension between their actions and their opinions and try to find out why that tension exists."

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

Nothing I have written is contradictory to the ideas of the manufacturing of consent. If anything your position is a shallow caricature of those ideas and what I am presenting involves some actual interaction with the mechanisms involved.

[Kaelik]

Why does the Biden administration keep insisting Israel backs a deal that the Israelis keep publicly condemning? Because the target audience is confused, half-paying-attention liberals. It’s the meaningful percent of the population for whom this type of Diplomacy Theater works, and our media almost never points out what Biden administration officials are saying is patently untrue, so why wouldn’t they keep doing this strange performance?

The White House keeps releasing posturing Very Serious social media posts, ostensibly directed at Hamas, demanding they “say yes” to the “Israeli ceasefire proposal” in English. This may indicate the audience for this messaging isn’t Hamas or even the Egyptians or Qataris, but is, instead reporters and the broader American public whom they want to convince the responsible party for all the dead children they see on their social media timelines isn’t the one dropping or providing the bombs. It is, instead, Hamas, which, we told, is simply nihilistically addicted to the killing of Palestinians.

https://www.columnblog.com/p/media-keep ... th-fiction

[Kaelik]

https://internationalpolicy.org/publica ... litically/

[tussock]

Biden is protecting US foreign interests.

The interests in Israel, are that they buy US weapons, many billions of dollars worth.

This is a thing, where the US state can magic up some money, and gift it to Israel, on condition that they buy weapons from the US with it. This money goes back to US arms manufacturers, who have a controlling interest in most US media, and who also fund essentially all politicians (except any who ever vote against their wars, where all the money then goes the other way).

This allows the US government to create high-paying employment in chosen domestic areas, through contracting the creation of weapons, without the problem of having to stockpile the weapons or make war on people, or the problem of paying for their creation with taxes or anything. The state just needs to pretend their client state is under attack, and then have them use the weapons. It also avoids inflation, or currency devaluation by virtue of murdering anyone who would threaten that. Like, say, if you were a Ukrainian president and decided you could maybe sell your oil to your neighbour Russia in Rubles, instead of US Dollars, because like, they're right there, and why not, and it turns out, fuck you, no you don't, Joe Biden will fly in with snipers and fuck up your entire country for the next 20 years to stop that. Install a puppet government that bans all other political parties for being "too friendly with Russia."

Like, worst comes to worst, you get new foreign interests, another place needs your very expensive weapons.

And attacking Hamas is fine to the US, because they're a fundamentally socialist political party, they provide free healthcare and even tertiary education and well, thus bombing hospitals and universities is "attacking Hamas", Because Hamas pays for those things to function, and there's probably some Hamas guy in an office somewhere, because you know, accountability for the money. Joe Biden is old school, only good socialist is a dead socialist.

So, yes, Israel is committing genocide, and the minimum US response in a world where the US cared about that at all, would be stopping the weapons shipments. But, like, the genocide is helping the weapons shipments, they can send more now, which is the whole point of the arrangement. The US foreign interests are to send weapons to them and this is making that better, so, you know, Joe Biden is gunna support that, and definitely deny all that genocide stuff, and you know, need to carefully examine any evidence that opposes their foreign interests.

[Kaelik]

It's amazing how you always manage to be completely wrong about everything in the exact opposite way of everyone else who is wrong.

"The US wants to genocide Palestinians because Hamas is socialist."

This is the third dumbest thing you said.

[Thaluikhain]

Biden is protecting US foreign interests.

The interests in Israel, are that they buy US weapons, many billions of dollars worth.

This is a thing, where the US state can magic up some money, and gift it to Israel, on condition that they buy weapons from the US with it. This money goes back to US arms manufacturers, who have a controlling interest in most US media, and who also fund essentially all politicians (except any who ever vote against their wars, where all the money then goes the other way).

This allows the US government to create high-paying employment in chosen domestic areas, through contracting the creation of weapons, without the problem of having to stockpile the weapons or make war on people, or the problem of paying for their creation with taxes or anything.

How is it not US tax dollars paying for it?

Anyhoo, while I otherwise generally agree with the above, the same applies whether they are giving weapons to Israel to commit genocide, giving weapons to people where there is not genocide, or giving weapons to people trying to stop genocide.

[PseudoStupidity]

That was a fucking classic Tussock post, says some correct things and then goes veering wildly off course into something I've literally never heard before. Tussock misses the part where US taxpayers are the ones paying for the weapons for Israel (and invents a very unique take of "hamas is socialist," which seems pretty far out there but is also fun to hear [I really enjoyed reading that post, it was fun and only gave me a minor case of whiplash]), but at least that thing about funding wars to get money to our MIC is true! The MIC is part of the way the United States transfers wealth upwards always and forever, much like the US healthcare system, tax system, prison system, and basically every single system that exists in this terrible country. We're the best at taking money from poor people and giving it to rich people, it's why we're #1! in billionaires and prisoners (who we use as slaves)

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

Capitalist corporate forces in the USA do not want to bomb hospitals for being too socialist. They want to privatize them for not exploiting enough potential profit. The only hospital they would drop a 2000 pound bomb on just for being too socialist would be one opening in the USA, foreign ones are valuable unexploited markets.

If Biden was doing the bidding of hedge funs eyeing up the status of hospitals and universities in Gaza those buildings would remain intact as would the population they "should" be leaching of money. (Also note how this specific population has no money).

If anything the best vehicle for such interests would have been an earlier peace process and US firms stepping in with parasitic privatization plans that "help" take the expenses off the hands of the various nations and international charities/foundations that have been funding these hospitals and schools.

[MGuy]

Biden is personally a Zionist. Like he himself, personally, has a record of cheerleading Israel on their apartheid. Biden has never needed more of a reason to give Israel whatever they want and has only tried to get them to use less heavy bombs to do exactly what they are doing right now. Biden has stayed the course in direct opposition to people who would be there to tell him that he should actually punish Israel. You don't need to invent an anti socialism angle for Biden's dogged support of Israel's apartheid.