Radical Idea: Armor

[Psychic Robot]

Tell me, is there even a decent reason to limit rituals per day?

Yes. If you don't limit the number per day, you might accidentally incorporate a system where the rituals are limited based upon your finances. Then nobody would ever want to use a ritual because it would take a significant chunk of their loot.

But on the plus side, you wouldn't have to worry about people breaking the game by scrying for five whole rounds when they're supposed to be demigods.

[Talisman]

Maybe just have a fatigue cost?

Say, after casting a ritual you're fatigued until you can rest for an hour. If you want/need to, you can blitz through 3 rituals in an hour and render yourself unconscious.

[Psychic Robot]

Not bad.

[Draco_Argentum]

Frank: I understand where you're coming from, and I realize that my views on fighters are very much in the minority here. I do not like fighters doing weird, supernatural things without magic, and I don't like them using "magic" without spellcaster levels.

A 'wizard' isn't good at swording because he didn't take the sword proficiency. He takes a -4 to hit. If he does take the sword prof then he can jolly well have a level appropriate attack bonus.

I will agree that I don't like people doing clearly magical stuff and claiming its not magic. If you're shooting fire bolts by slashing your sword with amazing skill thats magic. Its okay for a fighter to learn magic.

[Amra]

Out of interest - and I'm certainly not saying I disagree with you - would you find it so disturbing if incredible fighter abilities were divorced from the special effects? If a fighter uses his mighty thews and cat-like reflexes to punch a boulder the size of a house into a million fragments just before it hits him, is that easier to deal with than him shouting sho-ryu-ken and projecting a ball of flaming ki energy at the bad guys?

[Bigode]

Out of interest - and I'm certainly not saying I disagree with you - would you find it so disturbing if incredible fighter abilities were divorced from the special effects? If a fighter uses his mighty thews and cat-like reflexes to punch a boulder the size of a house into a million fragments just before it hits him, is that easier to deal with than him shouting sho-ryu-ken and projecting a ball of flaming ki energy at the bad guys?

Not saying you're automatically wrong, but look at the particular examples. Everyone's actualy OK with fighters being invulnerable retards, but go find something that actually affects non-retarded others (i.e. fvck dire bears) in meaningful way that doesn't also raise retarded player alarms. Take the FX out, try to do anything one might care about, and you'll have idiots quoting natural sciences at you.

[Talisman]

Out of interest - and I'm certainly not saying I disagree with you - would you find it so disturbing if incredible fighter abilities were divorced from the special effects? If a fighter uses his mighty thews and cat-like reflexes to punch a boulder the size of a house into a million fragments just before it hits him, is that easier to deal with than him shouting sho-ryu-ken and projecting a ball of flaming ki energy at the bad guys?

Personally, yes. If you want to play a warrior who shoots flaming ki energy, that's great...but you should be Master of the Flaming Ki, or Desert Wind Adept or something. That's a magic-enhanced fighter, not what I consider a "true" fighter.

Using your above example, I would rather see the fighter slash the boulder in two with his mighty thews and shining blade (think Goemon from Lupin III). Or, if he's Strengthy McStrength, he could catch it and hurl it back. Or just dodge and get free attacks on the bad guys as they stand there in a stupor - no one could have dodged that!

I recognize that high-level fighters need superhuman abilities to hang with casters and monsters...but since the entire game is dressed-up make-believe, I'm happier when my fighter's superhuman abilities are less overtly magical. It's like a zoomy actio movie: we know, intellectually, that normal humans can't perform the stunts we see, but we accept it because it look like, maybe, with a lot of skill and luck, a normal human could do that. And when we see a super-absurd stunt that's clearly impossible, we laugh and throw popcorn at the screen.

It's the fine line between awesome and goofy.

[Amra]

Actually, I'm in full agreement there. Here's another thought. If there were a chain of feats (for the sake of argument; it could well be another mechanic and would practically have to be) that allowed fighters to do things like duck out of the way of incoming boulders or shatter them with his sword without flashy effects, would that be OK?

I'm thinking of a sort of "fortune favours the brave" type situation (and I'm pretty sure it has been done) where you actually accrue a reserve of heroic fortune and supernal skill by performing deeds of derring-do in and out of combat.

The difficulty of achieving such a thing lies in "mechanising" it sufficiently that things you do to get this amazing fortune - and the things you can do *with* it - aren't solely left to handwaving and DM fiat.

[Caedrus]

I recognize that high-level fighters need superhuman abilities to hang with casters and monsters...but since the entire game is dressed-up make-believe, I'm happier when my fighter's superhuman abilities are less overtly magical.

Indeed, Fighters aren't supposed to be overtly magical, they're supposed to get Charles Atlas Superpowers, which are just as good.

[Bigode]

Actually, I'm in full agreement there. Here's another thought. If there were a chain of feats (for the sake of argument; it could well be another mechanic and would practically have to be) that allowed fighters to do things like duck out of the way of incoming boulders or shatter them with his sword without flashy effects, would that be OK?

You mean Lightning Reflexes and Power Attack with bigger numbers? How about figuring something a wizard might actually remember?