Dweomerkeeper PrC Web Enhancement on Wizards

[Lago_AM3P]

I'd really like to download this PrC off of Wizards, but unfortunately, the shipboard computer sucks and the connection ALWAYS craps out at 500 KB.

Just so I know--is the ability where a Dweomerkeeper casts a spell as a supernatural ability a certain number of times per day a spell-like ability?

And just on general principle... are there any spellcaster PrCs out there that hand out powerful/abusive spell-like abilities out there on principle?

[Username17]

Just so I know--is the ability where a Dweomerkeeper casts a spell as a supernatural ability a certain number of times per day a spell-like ability?

It's a supernatural ability. It works on any spell with a casting time of one standard action or less. You get this ability at level 4.

BTW, on a purely rantastical note, the prereqs of Dweomerkeeper are bullshit and make everyone cry. You need 8 ranks in Knowledge: Arcana and Spellcraft. You need to have made a magic item (scroll of ghost sound counts), and you need access to the Magic domain, which actually just means that you need to be able to cast Identify or Dispel Magic. Finally, you need to be able to cast Arcane and Divine spells, though not any particular level worth of them. So basically all Wizards automatically qualify for this class if they can get someone to cast Imbue With Spell Ability.

And just on general principle... are there any spellcaster PrCs out there that hand out powerful/abusive spell-like abilities out there on principle?

Archmage. You can convert any of your spells into spell-likes, and with Supernatural Trnasformation you can turn them into component-less Supernatural abilities. Good times.

Mostly, however, "unique capability" classes give out spell-likes instead of caster levels, which means that they suck. With real sucking. Why?

-Username17

[Wrenfield]

The bypass to a Wiz/Cleric baseline is to go solely Cleric and take the feat in the PGtF that grants you the ability to *cast* either 2 or 3 pre-set Wiz/Sorc spells of 0th to 1st level. I can't recall the name of the specific feat.

This option gives you inimpeded clerical spellcaster progression to go with your cleric baseline.

Alternately, you can also go the Cleric/Nar Demonbinder Mystic Theurge route -- then add 6 levels of Dweomerkeeper on the tail end. That way you get 9th level Cleric spells (19 caster levels), 8th level NarD spells (26 caster levels or 30 with Practiced Spellcaster feat), and DwK Supernaturalized spells. Sweet!

Although the latter build needs some chicanery with feats, spells, and BoVD/BoED spells to get it all to come together.

[Naar]

Magical Training is the feat you're thinking of.

[Zherog]

1102100001[/unixtime]]Alternately, you can also go the Cleric/Nar Demonbinder Mystic Theurge route -- then add 6 levels of Dweomerkeeper on the tail end. That way you get 9th level Cleric spells (19 caster levels), 8th level NarD spells (26 caster levels or 30 with Practiced Spellcaster feat), and DwK Supernaturalized spells. Sweet!

I'd actually be interested in seeing that - but be prepared to go slow, because a lot of stuff seems to go over my head.

[Username17]

Nar Demon Binder is from a FR sourcebook, Unapproachable East, page 26. You have to be at least 7th level in something before you can even get into the class - you need 10 ranks of Knowledge: The Planes and the ability to cast 4th level spells. And in 3.5, that means that a Cleric can jump right in without having the Knowledge Domain.

It's an alternate spellcasting class, granting you spells of 4th - 8th level level in 10 class levels. They are a pretty limited list, and usually need the class features of Nar Demonbinder to be especially impressive, but they are arcane - so you satisfy the prereqs for Mystic Theurge handily. Assuming, of course, that you believe that the ability to cast 4th level spells satifies the prereq to be able to cast 2nd level spells (which is actually a bit debatable, since there are no 2nd level Nar Demonbinder spells to put into your spell slots). Your caster level in Nar Demonbinder is equal to your level in NB plus your level in one other spellcasting class.

So if you have the progression of 1-7: Cleric; 8: Nar Demonbinder; 9-17: Mystic Theurge (Add to NB and Cleric); 18-20: Dweomerkeeper...

then you in fact have an effective 10 levels of Nar Demonbinder (granting you full casting there), and 19 effective levels of Cleric (granting you very nearly full casting there). The Nar Demonbinder's caster level is 28. What you don't have in this build is any of the cheese off of Dweomerkeeper, because that takes at least 4 levels of that thrice damned class.

What you could do, is wait until you have a few levels of Mystic Theurge under your belt and lose a level. It will automatically come off of Cleric, and then you can cast Restoration to get your level back - immediately picking up a level of your choice - for a final build of Cleric 6/Nar Demon Binder 1/ MyTh 9/ Dweomer Keeper 4 - and then you get all the power in 20 levels.

But you weren't able to reproduce the original write-up because it is actually impossible with a non-organic linear progression.

-Username17

[Wrenfield]

Actually, there is a better way than Frank's layout.

Voila ... the Lawful Good Human .... Nar Priest Theurge!

Cleric-5
Church Inquisitor-2 (Complete Divine)

This baseline takes care of the awkward skill pre-req.'s of ND as both Sense Motive and Intimidate are CI class skills. Plus, CI-2 offers 3 really nice class benefits - Detect Evil at will, the awesome Inquisition domain (+4 to all your Dispel checks), and immunity to all enchantment (charm) spells. 2 of your mandatory feats are Iron Will and SpFocus: Conj. Bleh. But **NOW** you can enter Nar Demonbinder.

Nar Demonbinder-1

Frank's assessment below is indeed true:

Assuming, of course, that you believe that the ability to cast 4th level spells satifies the prereq to be able to cast 2nd level spells (which is actually a bit debatable, since there are no 2nd level Nar Demonbinder spells to put into your spell slots).

But there is a way to fulfill the Myth 2nd level spell requirement that is totally legal. By taking the Arcane Preparation feat, your guy can prepare a *Sanctified* spell from BoED (pg. 83) of 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th level into his ND 4th level slots. Which of course, makes the prepped Sancitified spell an arcane spell. Unfortunately, Arcane Preparation can only be had if you can already cast arcane spells. Which means you have to take the Magical Training (PGtF) feat in your baseline build to fulfill that requirement.

Next, take 1 level of DwK and attach it to your Cleric spellcasting. Your full build now is:

Cleric-5 / CI-2 / NarD-1 / DwK-1

Take your 9th level character feat as Arcane Preperation. Now all you have to do is "prep" a 2nd level BoED Sanctified spell in your 4th level ND spell slot at some point in time ... and you now qualify for MyTh.

Take 6 levels of MyTh. Only 6 is needed, because Nar-D is only 7 levels long to get you its 8th level spells. Your build now looks like this:

Cleric-5 / CI-2 / NarD-1 / DwK-1 / MyTh-6

Take your remaining 5 levels in DwK, which nets you 19th level Cleric spellcasting (9th level spells) and 26th level ND spellcasting (8th level spells). Take the Practiced Spellcaster feat somewhere in the build, and your ND spellcasting level is 30. Great for your *inimical casted* Blasphemy/Holy Word spells which will no doubt be augmented with Orange Ioun Stones, Karma Beads, an Ankh, etc.

I don't have my printout of the 3.5 DwK PrC on hand, but I think 6 levels of it will still allow you to "supernaturalize" your Limited Wish spells (you took the FRCS Spell domain, didn't you?). In addition, if you take the Domain Spontaneity feat (CD book) and attach it to your Spell Domain, you can spontaneiously cast your Limited Wish, Anyspell, and Greater Anyspell spells on the fly.

*************

Now, is that a lot of feats to toss into a highly specialized build? You bet your sweet ass it is. The build is tightly focused as a spellcaster Cleric with hardly any feat flexibility whatsoever. Yet like all high level Clerics, he can still buff up as a Divine Power/Spikes wingnut and lay down the beats.

But, whatever you do, do not underestimate the brokenness of the Nar Demonbinder's inimically casted, uber-levelled Holy Word/Blasphemy spells.

Finally, there is something deliciously funny in this build in how a Lawful Good Cleric of Magic Spellcasting ends up having an Imp for a familiar. Yes, by the rules, that's what happens. Oh, the roleplaying opportunities must be priceless for this build. Perhaps your Cleric accepts this Familiar with intentions to convert it to the "good side". Might there be a conflict between having this familiar and qualifying for Sanctified spells? By the RAW, I don't think so. Conceptually, you need to do some fancy dancing to pull it off....

[Zherog]

Thanks for sharing. I need to go re-read Unapproachable East.

[User3]

Mostly, however, "unique capability" classes give out spell-likes instead of caster levels, which means that they suck. With real sucking. Why?

Because while farming through the Monster Manual I for my core rules-only cheese, I noticed that there's a monster with the supernatural ability of being able to fuel unlimited spell-like abilities with people's souls.