Your Quick & Eazy Teleport/Scry Fixes

[arangatang]

I was just wondering what quick patches/fixes people have tried for the annoying scry & die tactics that abound at higher levels.

Among other things, I myself have ruled that teleportation spells (ex Teleport, Greater Teleport) have characters take 3d2 rounds to materialize, in a reasonably loud and visible fashion. In need of a short range teleport, I've altered Dimension Door as follows:

1) Third Level Spell
2) Range: Close
3) Can take actions afterword

I've read most of the Tome material and am a big fan of of the "large chunks of matter block scrying". Also, has anyone experimented with any lower level teleportation foiling spells/rituals?

[JonSetanta]

Common and cheap anti-teleport and anti-scry measures. They are also wide-area and long-lasting to permanent for a cost (if used on an area or item)

Delay of usage on said spells; charge time.

Ample visibility and/or other sensory warning that such effects will occur (at the target location), with delay for teleport.

Limited range on the spells.

Limited usage on the spells, such as a cooldown time.



However, I avoid per-day mechanic by personal standard.

[Talisman]

The old classic: lead blocks scrying (and teleporting, if you feel so inclined). A DC 10 Know: Arcana check tells you this.

Substitute "lead" for "whatever you need or want."

[Calibron]

Why not use Dimension Slide instead of messing with Dimension Door?

Mage's Private Sanctum is good for killing the Scry half of Scry and Die. Just shift the layout of your shrouded strongholds periodically and no one that hasn't physically been there recently will be able to teleport in.

[arangatang]

I'm not a big psionics user, so I didn't realize Dimension Slide existed until you mentioned it. Seems like pretty much exactly what I was going for. Thanks for the info.

[Username17]

The problem with teleport tactics is not so much that you get there instantly, but that the difference between a buffed and unbuffed character is so large. If you take all the buffs away, Scry & Die doesn't even matter.

-Username17

[virgil]

Even with the idea of someone sleeping, unarmored, & recovering from a recent wound (all at once)? I can't think of many scenarios/systems that work where this isn't doom for the victim, even if you removed everything as simple as Bless from the system (let alone Haste and Shapechange).

[FatR]

I placed (Greater) Anticipate Teleportation on most spell lists. This alone can protect most NPCs that have a reason to fear scry&fry. Tome rule about scrying and teleportation being blocked by sufficiently thick layer or solid material is also good.

[Fuchs]

I don't like teleport at all, so banning it solved the teleport/scry problem. Long-range fast travel is done by using portals.

[RandomCasualty2]

The problem with teleport tactics is not so much that you get there instantly, but that the difference between a buffed and unbuffed character is so large. If you take all the buffs away, Scry & Die doesn't even matter.

Well yeah it does, assuming you play people like real world characters. The idea is that people don't stick together 24/7 and at some point you're going to be able to jump the archmage while he's going to the bathroom or taking a shower or whatever. And to get a fighter without his armor is just pure death.

[TOZ]

Teleport requires you having physically been to the site you are transporting to.

This means people have a reason to send expeditions to the unknown lands.

[tzor]

Teleport works both ways and in any case a good party should be able to use the "homefield" advantage. Perhaps it is a part of my old school gaming philosophy but you shouldn't be spending so much resources during the day as to be literally helpless at night.

In addition high level parties should have high level methhods of protecting themselves, not only from those who teleport in but those who just walk in the old fashioned way.

[SunTzuWarmaster]

The buffed/unbuffed deviation was solved for us by simply having BBEG characters buff the area that they are in and not leave very often. Kind of a plot foible, but effective nonetheless.

Also, Anticipate Teleportation (a level 0 spell for Summoners) was hugely helpful in stopping the BBEG scry-n-die tactics. "Quick, everyone cast a buff spell!".

[RandomCasualty2]

The buffed/unbuffed deviation was solved for us by simply having BBEG characters buff the area that they are in and not leave very often. Kind of a plot foible, but effective nonetheless.

Also, Anticipate Teleportation (a level 0 spell for Summoners) was hugely helpful in stopping the BBEG scry-n-die tactics. "Quick, everyone cast a buff spell!".

All the defenses in the world don't really help if you get ambushed while you're separated from your allies.

I mean all you've got to do is wait for the villain to have to take a crap and then jump him while he's sitting on the toilet. Or if you really want to be evil, hit him while he's taking a bath or shower. It means that hes not wearing a lto fo his magic gear. He might have rings and amulets, but belts, boots, hats, armor, gauntlets and all that stuff is going to be taken off.

[Kaelik]

The buffed/unbuffed deviation was solved for us by simply having BBEG characters buff the area that they are in and not leave very often. Kind of a plot foible, but effective nonetheless.

Also, Anticipate Teleportation (a level 0 spell for Summoners) was hugely helpful in stopping the BBEG scry-n-die tactics. "Quick, everyone cast a buff spell!".

All the defenses in the world don't really help if you get ambushed while you're separated from your allies.

I mean all you've got to do is wait for the villain to have to take a crap and then jump him while he's sitting on the toilet. Or if you really want to be evil, hit him while he's taking a bath or shower. It means that hes not wearing a lto fo his magic gear. He might have rings and amulets, but belts, boots, hats, armor, gauntlets and all that stuff is going to be taken off.

But sufficient protections can prevent someone from knowing when or if you ever go to the bathroom.

Prestidigitation replaces baths, and shapechange replaces going to the bathroom, and even if you did either of those things, Mindblank prevents anyone from knowing to attack you. Or non detection with a high CL.

There are ways to prevent yourself from a teleport ambush. The only thing you can't protect yourself from is Gate.

[RandomCasualty2]

Prestidigitation replaces baths, and shapechange replaces going to the bathroom, and even if you did either of those things, Mindblank prevents anyone from knowing to attack you. Or non detection with a high CL.

There are ways to prevent yourself from a teleport ambush. The only thing you can't protect yourself from is Gate.

The problem is that mind blank is an 8th level spell and teleport/scry is a 5th level spell. So there's a large level gap where there's nothing you can do to protect yourself.

[Kaelik]

Prestidigitation replaces baths, and shapechange replaces going to the bathroom, and even if you did either of those things, Mindblank prevents anyone from knowing to attack you. Or non detection with a high CL.

There are ways to prevent yourself from a teleport ambush. The only thing you can't protect yourself from is Gate.

The problem is that mind blank is an 8th level spell and teleport/scry is a 5th level spell. So there's a large level gap where there's nothing you can do to protect yourself.

See Non-Detection. Protects you from anyone who isn't better then you.

Seriously Level 12 Wizard scrying on level 12 Wizard:

DC 27-31 CL check 1d20+12-(if you are really lucky)16. Not going to succeed too often, which means you blow several spells just getting to the point where you can try against their will save.

It's not easy to teleport ambush a caster. Yeah Fighters can't have nice things, but they can't teleport ambush or protect themselves against it. Casters can protect themselves just fine.

[IGTN]

What's the cost for failing against nondetection, if you have a few days to blow?

[Roy]

Jack shit. Meanwhile you're burning 50 gold at least once a day, which admittedly doesn't matter in a Wish economy, but there's still a level gap before you get into that.

Though really, there are much simpler ways to avoid getting jumped. Ring of Sustenance = you no longer need to eat and need very little sleep.

No eating = no time spent vulnerable on that, no chance of poisoning food that doesn't exist, and if nothing goes in nothing comes out.

Less sleep = more time to do stuff, and harder to jump (other casters can counter caster safe sleeping zones after all).

[Kaelik]

What's the cost for failing against nondetection, if you have a few days to blow?

Spending several days wasting scries finally succeeding, only to see that he's not in the shower at that given second, and starting the process all over again.

But that's okay, if you spend five and a half years doing nothing but scry me you might eventually catch me off guard. Of course, not really because while you were wasting all your slots trying to find me off guard I was leveling up. So now I'm Epic.

You can't actually catch someone off guard with scrying if they have any decent protection.

[SunTzuWarmaster]

Yea, honestly Ring of Sustenance, Comfort, Feather Falling, and Prestidigitation.

The combo item that protects against eating, drinking, common poison, common disease, inclimate weather, and falling on your face (works in an anti-gravity field!).

Every adventurer needs one (BBEG or not).

[RandomCasualty2]

Sounds like all your NPCs are robots. They don't eat, sleep, go to the bathroom, have sex or do anything beyond trying to gain levels and study magic. And apparently they are surrounded by their bodyguards at all times.

I generally prefer to have fantasy characters who can enjoy life a little instead of being forced to live a completely paranoid existence. Sounds more like a MMORPG than a tabletop RPG.

Hate to see how your fighters have to act. The poor guys can probably never take off their full plate and get mistaken for a troglodyte because of the awful stench coming from the unwashed armor.

[Roy]

What's the cost for failing against nondetection, if you have a few days to blow?

Spending several days wasting scries finally succeeding, only to see that he's not in the shower at that given second, and starting the process all over again.

But that's okay, if you spend five and a half years doing nothing but scry me you might eventually catch me off guard. Of course, not really because while you were wasting all your slots trying to find me off guard I was leveling up. So now I'm Epic.

You can't actually catch someone off guard with scrying if they have any decent protection.

Greater Scrying lasts for hours. Normal lasts for minutes. He can just wait. It will delay them, but not nearly as much as you think.

[Kaelik]

Greater Scrying lasts for hours. Normal lasts for minutes. He can just wait. It will delay them, but not nearly as much as you think.

So now you are level 13. Congratulations, you still have trouble even establishing the lock, but if you do manage, after a few weeks, you can then watch for couple days while he hits level 15. Then he casts Mindblank and you fail.

[Roy]

Really? Because last I checked it's 1:4 at the lowest, and 1:2 at the highest. There's also nothing stopping multiple casters from doing it, such as say... any organization worth considering ever?