Relationships in D&D

Fallen Hero · Post by **Fallen Hero** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:30 am

I was wondering if someone had a system or could help make one to form a balanced set of benefits for characters who take on marriage and parenthood.

Now, this may seem trivial, however, there is a reason why I think there needs to be some sort of rules for what occurs as a result of these kinds of relationships. That would be the fact that having a wife/husband and/or children offers any enemies a fantastic opportunity to blackmail/torment/antatonize the PC that decides to write them into their past. I do not think it would strike a lot of people, especially players who are actually married and happy so, as proper to essentially treat it as a minor flaw. Thus, I think there should be some sort of benefit to balance the fact that a family poses a huge liability to an adventurer (more so when the family is composed of NPCs), but deciding that it must thus always be left away limits the role-playing possibilities.

Further, I think that there should be benefits which are time based. (a.k.a. a newly wed should not have some incredible ability to sense the death of their partner from across the world or something ridiculous like that.

Thanks for any assistance.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:33 am

WARNING: THE FOLLOWING IS NOT HELPFUL.

Handle it all through role-playing and narrative license. There's absolutely no reason that there needs to be a system for this. So your character has a weakness--a role-playing weakness, no less. Who the fuck cares? It gives the DM plot material.

Fuchs · Post by **Fuchs** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:40 am

Indeed. And if the GM does use this "flaw" it means more screen time for the character, probably an entire adventure or arc centered on him.

Having family may be a weakness for the character, but it is usually a clear advantage for the player.

Fallen Hero · Post by **Fallen Hero** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:41 am

Psychic Robot wrote:WARNING: THE FOLLOWING IS NOT HELPFUL.

Handle it all through role-playing and narrative license. There's absolutely no reason that there needs to be a system for this. So your character has a weakness--a role-playing weakness, no less. Who the fuck cares? It gives the DM plot material.

I'm actually the DM for this one.

I ask, because while taking a look at some stuff from Unearthed Arcana, I see "Polite" as a stats-altering trait. THAT is something which I would typically consider a role-playing trait, not a mechanical one, however, there are mechanical effects attributed to it. My thoughts were essentially: if this, why not relationships, which could have much greater consequences.

I just had a character get married to an NPC in one of my games; I allowed it because not allowing it would have gone against setting and characters. Now, I am trying to write a balanced (read: dead-weight but not completely useless) NPC for that and was contemplating the consequences of the relationship for the character and the game.

Fuchs wrote:Indeed. And if the GM does use this "flaw" it means more screen time for the character, probably an entire adventure or arc centered on him.

Having family may be a weakness for the character, but it is usually a clear advantage for the player.

So what you suggest is that it can be left, because the in-game negatives are balanced by out-of-game positives?

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:45 am

I ask, because while taking a look at some stuff from Unearthed Arcana, I see "Polite" as a stats-altering trait. THAT is something which I would typically consider a role-playing trait, not a mechanical one, however, there are mechanical effects attributed to it. My thoughts were essentially: if this, why not relationships, which could have much greater consequences.

Ew. Some crunch with RP is acceptable, but that feels cheese-laden to me.

Anyway, I'd suggest something like a +2 bonus to all saves, an additional +2 bonus to his Will save against fear, and a +2 bonus on attack rolls when he is defending the NPC or the NPC is imminent danger.

Elennsar · Post by **Elennsar** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:48 am

Negatives: You have someone your enemies can use against you.

Positives: You have someone you can rely on against your enemies.

You have a comfortable home life (presumably), which means you have somewhere to return to and be comfortable with - less stress and worry and all of what that means.

You don't have to pay for sex.

The first two are serious, the third is joking.

Personally, I would say it is something of a flaw for an adventurer - not because marriage sucks, but because the penalties are tangible when they come up, and the benefits may or may not be.

But I'd definately consider having a home to come home to and relax in has to be a good thing - not precisely sure how, but if you have any rules involving having to unwind/relax/rest and recover between adventures, having this provide a (modest) bonus would be quite justified.

I don't think "+X to rolls of some sort." as a general thing about being married would be appropriate, though. I'd want to tie it to things directly dependent on home and hearth and hubby (or wife).

Fallen Hero · Post by **Fallen Hero** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:49 am

Psychic Robot wrote:
I ask, because while taking a look at some stuff from Unearthed Arcana, I see "Polite" as a stats-altering trait. THAT is something which I would typically consider a role-playing trait, not a mechanical one, however, there are mechanical effects attributed to it. My thoughts were essentially: if this, why not relationships, which could have much greater consequences.
Ew. Some crunch with RP is acceptable, but that feels cheese-laden to me.

Anyway, I'd suggest something like a +2 bonus to all saves, an additional +2 bonus to his Will save against fear, and a +2 bonus on attack rolls when he is defending the NPC or the NPC is imminent danger.

Highly agree. The sad thing is that it makes some sense mechanically (+1 Diplomacy, -2 Intimidate) and thus is easier to accept.

I think that works; for some reason, I missed the obvious and went right to the obscure.

I'll play test that later but it seems to make sense.

Fallen Hero · Post by **Fallen Hero** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:52 am

Elennsar wrote:Negatives: You have someone your enemies can use against you.

Positives: You have someone you can rely on against your enemies.

You have a comfortable home life (presumably), which means you have somewhere to return to and be comfortable with - less stress and worry and all of what that means.

You don't have to pay for sex.

The first two are serious, the third is joking.

Personally, I would say it is something of a flaw for an adventurer - not because marriage sucks, but because the penalties are tangible when they come up, and the benefits may or may not be.

But I'd definately consider having a home to come home to and relax in has to be a good thing - not precisely sure how, but if you have any rules involving having to unwind/relax/rest and recover between adventures, having this provide a (modest) bonus would be quite justified.

I don't think "+X to rolls of some sort." as a general thing about being married would be appropriate, though. I'd want to tie it to things directly dependent on home and hearth and hubby (or wife).

Currently, the wife of the character is in tow, they have no set home, among other problems which are irrelevant to the matter.

If you think that +X to rolls to defend would be too much, perhaps a penalty for failure to defend beyond just the death of the wife?

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:53 am

Should the paladin’s mount die, it immediately disappears, leaving behind any equipment it was carrying. The paladin may not summon another mount for thirty days or until she gains a paladin level, whichever comes first, even if the mount is somehow returned from the dead. During this thirty-day period, the paladin takes a -1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.

Elennsar · Post by **Elennsar** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:56 am

I don't mind the idea of +X to defend the better half, but I wouldn't want +X for having a better half.

As for the -X for losing her...this is D&D. No, seriously. We have gorram raise dead.

Barring that - you could either be spurred to avenge her just as logically.

Fallen Hero · Post by **Fallen Hero** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:57 am

Thanks! I'll try all this out for next time we play.

Fuchs · Post by **Fuchs** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:57 am

Fallen Hero wrote: So what you suggest is that it can be left, because the in-game negatives are balanced by out-of-game positives?

Yes. Ultimately, in-game negatives only count if the player considers their effect as a negative, and not something he (unlike his character) wants to have. If say a player likes it when his character gets scorned by society, and unfairly discriminated against, and has the most fun if his character is the innocent victim of prejudice, then an in-game negative such as "character is unpopular" is not really a negative at all.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:08 pm

Also, don't forget that it's okay for a character to have weaknesses. A rude character can be just as much a liability as a wife.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:28 pm

Fallen Hero wrote:
Psychic Robot wrote:WARNING: THE FOLLOWING IS NOT HELPFUL.

Handle it all through role-playing and narrative license. There's absolutely no reason that there needs to be a system for this. So your character has a weakness--a role-playing weakness, no less. Who the fuck cares? It gives the DM plot material.
I'm actually the DM for this one.

I ask, because while taking a look at some stuff from Unearthed Arcana, I see "Polite" as a stats-altering trait. THAT is something which I would typically consider a role-playing trait, not a mechanical one, however, there are mechanical effects attributed to it. My thoughts were essentially: if this, why not relationships, which could have much greater consequences.

That's the point of traits. YOu could make a Married triat, but really, it's not neccesary.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:39 pm

Or you could just give the PC situational bonuses when protecting his wife. Really, I don't think D&D encourages that enough.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:15 pm

A character who had children could take the Mentorship feat. You might even give it to them for free, because honestly who cares.

-Username17

Fallen Hero · Post by **Fallen Hero** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:26 pm

I don't see that feat in the Feat list of the d20srd, could you explain it please?

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:40 pm

Fallen Hero wrote:I don't see that feat in the Feat list of the d20srd, could you explain it please?

It's either in the PHB2 or DMG2.

TarkisFlux · Post by **TarkisFlux** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:39 am

DMG2 then probably... It's not in the PHB2 for sure, but I don't have the DMG2 around to check.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:48 am

It's in the DMG2. You get to slowly train people up in your class if you spend time scaring children. They can get up to level 5 in this way and then they get the power to train children themselves. Also you get some small bonuses that mostly don't stack to a skill or something.

It's the basis of any standing aristocracy in D&D land.

-Username17

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:01 am

We had sort of an informal set of rules depending on the characters. Most of it was in the form of morale or circumstance bonuses à la what PR described. One character got the ability to rage (1/day) when his family was attacked/injured/whatever. In another game, we had a series of feats - in the same vein as Karmic Twin from Oriental Adventures - for those characters who really took their marriages personally.

JonSetanta · Post by **JonSetanta** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:58 am

Speaking of useless feats...

Thunder Twin.

My brother, a dwarf fan, didn't believe me when I told him about it. Thought I was joking.

ckafrica · Post by **ckafrica** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:06 am

Elennsar wrote:Negatives: You have someone your enemies can use against you.

Positives: You have someone you can rely on against your enemies.

You have a comfortable home life (presumably), which means you have somewhere to return to and be comfortable with - less stress and worry and all of what that means.

You don't have to pay for sex.

Oh come on, everyone knows that males have to pay even more for sex once they're married, just not in a direct "here is cash now we have sex" kind of way

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:09 am

Why is that useless (it's also the same as Karmic Twin)?

SunTzuWarmaster · Post by **SunTzuWarmaster** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:27 am

Please, handle this via RP or very minor bonus. Marriage gives a +/-X circumstance bonus to social checks involving people that know your partner, to both partners.

They like you, +2.
They like your wife, +2.

Hooray!

I am also fine with giving Rage (as per barbarian or Tome barbarian, whatever floats your boat) if they are about to die or die in your presence, as long as the character doesn't do this solely for mechanical benefit.

Additionally, this would make a fine Background Trait:
Married (or lifelong partner of some sort)
You have a partner (and family?). The DM will probably use this against you by kidnapping them or something, but that's okay because it is just a plot hook. You get a +/-2 circumstance bonus on any social interactions in which the other person knows of your partner. Additionally, you may pick 3 skills that your partner as to get a +2 bonus on due to his/her training. Also, someone actually knows your final wishes.