Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies are horsecrap.

[MartinHarper]

Or is he more dangerous just because he's bigger and has equipment made out of REAL city steel? If that's the case then I don't see why you just can't fiddle the numbers.

Yeah, pretty much. Better equipment, bit tougher, slightly more experience in combat. That kinda thing. He's not a Ninja Pirate, just a slightly tougher than average Fighting Man.

Essentially, I have the level of "Ninja Pirate", and the level of "Fighting Man", and I need another level (or ten) in the middle. How can I do that without you getting sniffy because you got a filler level that didn't give you awesome new abilities and a costume change? If I take 4e, rename the "tiers" as "levels", so that it's a three "level" system, will that do?

[Lago PARANOIA]

Essentially, I have the level of "Ninja Pirate", and the level of "Fighting Man", and I need another level (or ten) in the middle. How can I do that without you getting sniffy because you got a filler level that didn't give you awesome new abilities and a costume change? If I take 4e, rename the "tiers" as "levels", so that it's a three "level" system, will that do?

Look, generally, the amount of levels you have in the game should be the amount of badassedness you want players to start out with and the amount of badassedness you want players to end with divided by the number of snapshots you want of characters advancing through the tier.

The schtick difference between a 4E D&D character at level 1 and 30 isn't all that great. Therefore most of the levels are filler.

Going back to your system:

You have four levels of difference between a peasant and Batman. And guess what, Batman despite what the fanboys tell you isn't miles ahead and away of peasants.

Is that not enough somehow? Why do you need that level of differentiation between your (N)PCs? What advantage does it do for the game to have a level 26 orc and a level 27 orc where the difference is that the level 27 orc has a +1 bonus to attack and defense and an extra 5% soak? And nothing else?

Will this change the tactics of the game? Is this worth the bookkeeping? Would the players even fucking notice that your Orc Boss is slightly more powerful than his orc followers?

[Orion]

Assuming that paths targeted at new builds don't count (no Tempest or Beast paths) and that "patches" don't count (no halfling bounder) the following paths give you substantially new and different flavor or mechanics

Polearm Master: Allows you to actually have a reach weapon
Tiefling Warfiend: You are ON FIRE
Master Spy: steal your enemy's buffs
Spiral Tactician: teleport around

There are more I was tempted to include, but that will do for now.

[Lago PARANOIA]

Polearm Master: Allows you to actually have a reach weapon
Tiefling Warfiend: You are ON FIRE
Master Spy: steal your enemy's buffs
Spiral Tactician: teleport around

There are more I was tempted to include, but that will do for now.

Spiral Tactician is marginally effective, but for all the wrong reasons. The raw bonuses it hands out are nice, the actual teleportyness of the class sucks and doesn't effect combat enough for you to care.

Polearm Master is a PP that's like the the best performer of the first-round American Idol rejectees. Longarm Reach is the only really decent feature of this class.

Master Spy and Tiefling Warfiend suck balls. I thought we went through this in 3rd Edition; just because your SFX are unique doesn't mean you're any good. Well, in 4th Edition, not only do your SFX sucks but you don't actually get all that much. Being able to do a moderate bit extra teleporting over a five-encounter workday does not turn you into Nightcrawler. If what you have doesn't regularly turn the tide of combat then your schtick sucks.

[Orion]

If I were listing powerful Paragon Paths I would have come up with a completely different list.

[Lago PARANOIA]

If I were listing powerful Paragon Paths I would have come up with a completely different list.

In D&D, weak is the same thing as uninteresting.

Regardless, quick review of the fighter PPs in Martial Power:

Avenging Slayer- No one wants this PP. If you wanted to do mental-modifier based damage, you'd be a Pit Fighter. Half of their abilities require their opponent to be bloodied so it's a waste of fucking time.

Dreadnaught- Really good PP, though loses quite a bit of value if you go Adamantine Soldier--and as a constitution-based fighter, why wouldn't you? You get extra hp, quite a bit of damage reduction, and also the ability to trade 10 hp to make any save you can. Since it's a free action, it's a very valuable ability, though unfortunately it won't save you from the stunned, unconscious, petrification, or dominate conditions.

Dread Reaper- Does quite a bit more damage with cleave, a power that's unfortunately rendered obsolete with the release of brash strike and dual strike. However, if you grab the feat in the expansion that lets you add your wisdom modifier as ongoing damage if you only hit a single target with cleave it can add up to a noticable amount of pain.

Dwarven Defender- The legacy of suckage continues. They get abilities that reduce the distance they and their buddies get shifted, push enemies small amounts, and gain situational defensive bonuses. Pass.

Halfling Bounder- Two nice class abilities can't make up for the mediocrity and the fact that you're a goddamn halfling playing the fighter class.

Inner Dragon- Some very nice class features that kind of overshadow the effect that intentionally fighting bloodied in 4E D&D is both difficult and a bad idea. A lot of monsters become a lot more threatening when you're bloodied so intentionally fighting in this zone is a bad idea. Decent PP even if you intentionally stay out of the danger zone, nothing special.

Knight Protector- Has exactly one good ability, Devoted Protector. The rest of this class is horsecrap.

Ravager- Marauding Fury is a very, very nice power especially considering how in 4E melee basic attacks don't do that much less damage than other one-handed attacks. Seriously, even that retarded [7W] daily with a fullblade only dishes out 33 more damage than a melee basic attack. It almost makes the rest of the PP worth it.

Shield Adept- Or you could just get the great fortitude feat. I'm just sayin'.

Shock Trooper- This PP tries to convince you that a DEX-based tempest fighter is the bee's knees. But it's just not sexy enough to peel you away from Son of Mercy or Pit Fighter. Nice try, though.

Tiefling Warfiend- What fucking retard would be a tiefling fightner? Even the fire sword trick blows rocks. Pick fucking something else.

Of all of the above PPs, only one of them is better than a core option (Dreanaught) and that's only in paragon tier. Otherwise you'll have wished you were an Iron Vanguard.

[Orion]

Inner Dragon is pretty spectacular. Forget fighting deliberately bloodied. You probably get bloodied at some point, which is enough to get a free dragonbreath. That's one of the best Action powers there is. Then look a the powers: an immediate action attack, encoutner long DR (that enables bloodied fighting) and a stance which enables Frost cheese without wasting your weapon slot.

Polearm Master: what are you smoking? The abilities may not look great one by one, but the synergy is amazing. Only the Encoutner power is legitimately mediocre, and it's still not terrible. Longarm Grasp gives you real reach against Marked enemies, and your daily lets you mark enemies within two. Forceful reach boosts pushes and pulls, which doesn't sound very exciting until you remember that Come and Get It was errataed to be a pull. The stance is obviously godly. The action point ability... is useless unless your DM lets you activate it during an enemy's move. Which was how I first interpreted it. All in all, this is easily better than Iron Vanguard if you use a polearm.

Tiefling Warfiend: Look, you aren't going to argue that this isn't a good path if you were already playing a Tiefling fighter, are you? It provides pretty stiff punishment for ignoring your mark, some of which applies at range. All three powers are decent. Infernal Action looks terrible until you see Lingering Wrath and realize it's actually really good.

I'm not saying that this makes a Tiefling Fighter top-tier or anything like that, that would be folly. But some poor bastard was going to try it anyway. This makes it halfway decent and pretty distinct from other fighter builds, and the game is better because they printed it.

[Psychic Robot]

In D&D, weak is the same thing as uninteresting.

False. The bard is an interesting class. If fighters got +2 BAB, 10 skill points, and a +1 bonus to their saves at each level, they would still be uninteresting.

[Lago PARANOIA]

Inner Dragon is pretty spectacular. Forget fighting deliberately bloodied. You probably get bloodied at some point, which is enough to get a free dragonbreath. That's one of the best Action powers there is. Then look a the powers: an immediate action attack, encoutner long DR (that enables bloodied fighting) and a stance which enables Frost cheese without wasting your weapon slot.

Dragonbreath does not have any keywords that would allow it to combo off of bonus damage, so it starts out small and weak and stays small and weak, minor action aside. It's much less impressive than the Pit Fighter's Extra Damage Action ability.

I'm not saying it's a bad ability, I'm just saying that it's far from a killer app. At the level you get it, you're looking at about 12 extra damage every time you spend an action point. If you hit with the attack. Uh... okay?

And as far as being bloodied go, you do your damned best in 4E to avoid being bloodied. Being bloodied is when a lot of monsters start getting their extra spoon. Some monsters even start making attacks as minor actions when you're bloodied. And of course there's always just the risk of getting gangbanged, which will happen more often than not as a frontline melee character. A PP that provides bonuses for situations you generally try to avoid is already getting hurt in the value department.

Polearm Master: what are you smoking? The abilities may not look great one by one, but the synergy is amazing. Only the Encoutner power is legitimately mediocre, and it's still not terrible. Longarm Grasp gives you real reach against Marked enemies, and your daily lets you mark enemies within two.

I know you made this point later on in your post, but let me emphasize this for the viewers at home.

Having ONE ROUND reach EVERY TIME YOU SPEND AN ACTION POINT against enemies as a fighter is not that great. It does not combo off of Polearm momentum and you can't use your Combat Challenge or Combat Superiority abilities. It'd be a passable ability if it was on all of the time, but it's not. There are ways to get always-on reach and no one is tripping over themselves to get it in 4E, mostly because reach isn't all that great in 4E.

Forceful reach boosts pushes and pulls, which doesn't sound very exciting until you remember that Come and Get It was errataed to be a pull. The stance is obviously godly.

So?

The action point ability... is useless unless your DM lets you activate it during an enemy's move. Which was how I first interpreted it. All in all, this is easily better than Iron Vanguard if you use a polearm.

If you were using a polearm, you wouldn't be an Iron Vanguard in the first place, since the killer app feat of polearms requires a 15 WIS. You would be a Swordmaster, a Kensei, a Pit-Fighter, or a Son of Mercy depending on how your dexterity and strength scores were.

Reach is not a big deal in 4E. Threatening reach is, but you only get it as a daily stance power. The only unmitigatedly good ability is the level 16 power. Which you often don't even want to use, because it robs you of being able to use Polearm Gamble + Heavy Blade Opportunity + Combat Superiority.

I'd rather hold out for Polearm Gamble myself. Longarm Grasp does not stop even marked enemies from just normally moving around or through your reach area, only shifting. It's just not that awesome of an ability, since enemies not fighting in a closet can get around it.

Tiefling Warfiend: Look, you aren't going to argue that this isn't a good path if you were already playing a Tiefling fighter, are you? It provides pretty stiff punishment for ignoring your mark, some of which applies at range. All three powers are decent. Infernal Action looks terrible until you see Lingering Wrath and realize it's actually really good.

No, it's fucking not. It's a +1 power bonus and you add your charisma modifier to damage. As a fighter.

You know what? You could've just been a kensei and have a stackable bonus on all of your fucking attacks. This joke of a 'ooo, look at me I'm a pretty flaming speshul snowflake princess!' class is inferior at its basic functions to the kensei, which isn't exactly all that great of a class to begin with.

I'm not saying that this makes a Tiefling Fighter top-tier or anything like that, that would be folly. But some poor bastard was going to try it anyway. This makes it halfway decent and pretty distinct from other fighter builds, and the game is better because they printed it.

It's not halfway decent. It's inferior to a core option in everything it cares about. Having this piece of dogshit in the game makes the game worse because it's a trap designed to already fuck over the worst race for a fighter.

False. The bard is an interesting class. If fighters got +2 BAB, 10 skill points, and a +1 bonus to their saves at each level, they would still be uninteresting.

The bard is not an interesting class. Everything the bard can do is done better by Loremaster Wizards. Their abilities aren't level appropriate and unless you're into diplomancy they don't do anything that turns the tide of combat or the adventure.

The fighter is not an interesting class either, even good fighter builds like Frenzied Berserkers. While power does not automatically make your class interesting, if you don't have it then your class is never interesting.

[Username17]

Is that not enough somehow? Why do you need that level of differentiation between your (N)PCs? What advantage does it do for the game to have a level 26 orc and a level 27 orc where the difference is that the level 27 orc has a +1 bonus to attack and defense and an extra 5% soak? And nothing else?

The advantage is that mechanically you can have one orc be slightly better than another orc. The disadvantage is that you have to worry about slight numeric modifiers between orcs.

But the core problem comes down to the following immutable fact: you want to face off against some tougher orcs and some weaker orcs so that target selection means something. And that means that there has to be some signifier between two different orcs standing there in standard issue orcish chain mail with standard issue orcish falchions. And that means that either you write in some fucking filler levels, or you go skill based, or you have enemies exist on a completely separate scale where "minion orcs" have a completely different level 2 from "elite orcs."

If you're going to have a level based system at all, you can't make every single level be a revolutionary change and still have the orcs and humans use the same level system. The levels have to be evolutionary in order to accommodate having a stronger orc and a strongest orc in a team that the players are supposed to fight, care about, and defeat. This is fucking required.

Now, 4e goes way too far on this. In both directions. I am intellectually insulted by how easy it is to take down a giant cyclops guard with a thrown dagger. I am bored and annoyed with how little difference each and every level makes to my character. How fucking meaningless it is to claim to be a demigod or a storm warden. Storm warden sounds bad ass, but they don't really do anything different than anyone else. That's a real problem.

But if you're going to have levels, you're going to have to accept that at some point you're going to need a Level X scorpion, and a Level X+1 scorpion that is exactly the same with slightly larger numbers. You need this. And if you don't like it, you have to jettison level based systems entirely.

-Username17

[Orion]

Dragonbreath does not have any keywords that would allow it to combo off of bonus damage, so it starts out small and weak and stays small and weak, minor action aside. It's much less impressive than the Pit Fighter's Extra Damage Action ability.

I'm not saying it's a bad ability, I'm just saying that it's far from a killer app. At the level you get it, you're looking at about 12 extra damage every time you spend an action point. If you hit with the attack. Uh... okay?

I haven't played 4E above really low levels, so I'm not sure how it works in practice. In theory it seems to me that the area mark and minion sweeping functions are pretty good. And if you get to attack multiple enemies it's as good damage-wise as getting another basic attack.

Oh, also: Lasting Frost; Wintertouched. Use Dragonbreath to set up combat advantage.

And as far as being bloodied go, you do your damned best in 4E to avoid being bloodied. Being bloodied is when a lot of monsters start getting their extra spoon. Some monsters even start making attacks as minor actions when you're bloodied. And of course there's always just the risk of getting gangbanged, which will happen more often than not as a frontline melee character. A PP that provides bonuses for situations you generally try to avoid is already getting hurt in the value department.

I don't know the monster manuals well, plus they keep adding more, so I'll take your word that bloodied is bad. Still, even one round of bloodied lets you get that coldbreath off, with a + to hit with it and your main attack. You can have a cleric ready with the healing word, or just use a healing power if you like. Maybe 4E is easy enough that playing to never be bloodied is a reasonable goal; that's a rather depressing thought.

Reach is not a big deal in 4E. Threatening reach is, but you only get it as a daily stance power. The only unmitigatedly good ability is the level 16 power. Which you often don't even want to use, because it robs you of being able to use Polearm Gamble + Heavy Blade Opportunity + Combat Superiority.

No it doesn't. Longarm Grasp lets you attack as an immediate action; polearm gamble is an opportunity action. You could use both on the same enemy on the same round. Longarm grasp is competing with COmbat Challenge, not with Polearm Gamble.

Tiefling Warfiend: Look, you aren't going to argue that this isn't a good path if you were already playing a Tiefling fighter, are you? It provides pretty stiff punishment for ignoring your mark, some of which applies at range. All three powers are decent. Infernal Action looks terrible until you see Lingering Wrath and realize it's actually really good.

No, it's fucking not. It's a +1 power bonus and you add your charisma modifier to damage. As a fighter.

You know what? You could've just been a kensei and have a stackable bonus on all of your fucking attacks. This joke of a 'ooo, look at me I'm a pretty flaming speshul snowflake princess!' class is inferior at its basic functions to the kensei, which isn't exactly all that great of a class to begin with.

Sigh. Lingering Wrath; Fiery Rebuke: +1 to hit +17 to damage for the rest of the encounter at level 20. I think that's a little better than Kensei. Alternately, take Wis instead of Charisma and throw one point in to get Polearm Gamble. Take Ferocious Rebuke. Now every attack against your chosen enemy pushes him away, but your mark still damages him even if he's not in melee. If that's still not good enough you can grab Ruthless Efficiency and Cunning Ambusher, or Student of Battle and Unbalancing Wrath.

[Lago PARANOIA]

I haven't played 4E above really low levels, so I'm not sure how it works in practice. In theory it seems to me that the area mark and minion sweeping functions are pretty good. And if you get to attack multiple enemies it's as good damage-wise as getting another basic attack.

Oh, also: Lasting Frost; Wintertouched. Use Dragonbreath to set up combat advantage.

Unless you're using frost weapons, this combination is a waste of two good feats. There's no reason why you wouldn't want frost weapons, so this isn't too bad, but dragonborn get to do this anyway. We're talking about a benefit you only see when you use an action point while bloodied. Lame.

No it doesn't. Longarm Grasp lets you attack as an immediate action; polearm gamble is an opportunity action. You could use both on the same enemy on the same round. Longarm grasp is competing with COmbat Challenge, not with Polearm Gamble.

My mistake, I thought Longarm Grasp was an opportunity action.

Sigh. Lingering Wrath; Fiery Rebuke: +1 to hit +17 to damage for the rest of the encounter at level 20. I think that's a little better than Kensei. Alternately, take Wis instead of Charisma and throw one point in to get Polearm Gamble. Take Ferocious Rebuke. Now every attack against your chosen enemy pushes him away, but your mark still damages him even if he's not in melee. If that's still not good enough you can grab Ruthless Efficiency and Cunning Ambusher, or Student of Battle and Unbalancing Wrath.

1) Bonuses from the same source do not stack in 4E (or 3E for that matter), even if they're untyped.

2) Look, you could do all that and NOT be a tiefling warfiend. All that piece of crap PP does is give you an extra fiery rebuke when you spend an action point; which means that it's not that hot when you're doing a nova.

The kensei bonus stacks with Infernal Wrath on both ends, such that you do more damage when you don't have AP to burn, your attack roll is always higher, when you attack an enemy before it attacks you, and when you have to kill multiple dumbasses in a fight.

The Tiefling Warfiend only gets to do this against ONE additional enemy every other encounter and regardless they can't double up the damage on an enemy unlike a kensei and their bonus doesn't stack with power bonuses--which means that if you have a fighter power that provides power bonuses (and they have are a few) or are just in a party with a bard/cleric/warlord then they often won't see it. Plus if they're ever disengaged from the enemy they lose their attack and damage bonus for the rest of the combat.

And even if you could double up on the bonuses somehow, which you can't, a +2 to attack with a +13 to damage is better than a +1 to attack with +18 to damage, especially at epic levels!

[Psychic Robot]

The bard is not an interesting class. Everything the bard can do is done better by Loremaster Wizards. Their abilities aren't level appropriate and unless you're into diplomancy they don't do anything that turns the tide of combat or the adventure.

That's preposterous. I think that the bard is the second-most interesting class in the PHB (rangers being the first). Loremaster wizards have to rape themselves in the eyes to enter the class, and then they get a bunch of shitty "class features" that roughly amount to "Toughness, Great Fortitude, and Other Shit That Doesn't Matter." Sure, the level 6 and 10 abilities are nifty, but they're boring. And, yeah, they get wizard casting, but I'm not interested in pure power, because that's retarded.

Bards, on the other hand, can do a little bit of everything: fighting, buffing, healing, skillmonkeying. They might not be TEH BEST!1! at everything, but they're reasonable.

[Lago PARANOIA]

That's preposterous. I think that the bard is the second-most interesting class in the PHB (rangers being the first). Loremaster wizards have to rape themselves in the eyes to enter the class, and then they get a bunch of shitty "class features" that roughly amount to "Toughness, Great Fortitude, and Other Shit That Doesn't Matter." Sure, the level 6 and 10 abilities are nifty, but they're boring. And, yeah, they get wizard casting, but I'm not interested in pure power, because that's retarded.

????

Loremaster wizards do not 'rape themselves in the eyes' to enter this class. It requires three kinds of feats that wizards want anyway and wizards already have two of the feats they need just by qualifying for the class. The only real bummer is the Skill Focus: Knowledge skill... which doesn't even fucking matter since they immediately get their bupkiss feat back anyway.

They get a wider array of skills than core wizards and more skill points. If they want to, they can snag some good saves on their way to grab Lore, which is the only unique effect that bards get.

Bards, on the other hand, can do a little bit of everything: fighting, buffing, healing, skillmonkeying. They might not be TEH BEST!1! at everything, but they're reasonable.

Sigh.

Bards are not decent fighters. They are a 3/4ths BAB class with no class features that help them fight and low hp.

Bards do not do decent buffs. Their buffing class features suck because it provides the same bonus type that clerics hand out and because it requires your standard action.

Bards do not heal decently. They don't have access to heal or mass heal and the healing spells they DO get they're woefully behind on--and the cure line of spells already don't do donkey dick in real combat in 3E already.

If you want a skillmonkey, get a rogue.

Don't fall for the propaganda that if you delude yourself hard enough and ROLEplay not ROLLplay the bard's inner beauty will shine through. Bards suck. The only core class that sucks more than bards are monks, but that's not saying much.

[Elennsar]

To make matters worse, if my memory isn't failing me - the Song and Silence book considers the idea of a bard alone to be well rounded enough to not be dead meat.

It may not be quite that bad, but the idea that bards are jacks of all trades, instead of jack shit at all trades, is definately in that book.

[josephbt]

What's a "Son of Mercy"?

[Orion]

Re: Bards.

In 3.5, with swift spells and various buff-buffing effect from Complete Adventurer, it is quite possible to make a bard who outfights the fighting classes. That doesn't mean bards are goo, of course -- but they are "decent fighters" is the sense that a low-mid level bard outfights everyone except CoDzilla and some rogues.

[Psychic Robot]

Loremaster wizards do not 'rape themselves in the eyes' to enter this class. It requires three kinds of feats that wizards want anyway and wizards already have two of the feats they need just by qualifying for the class. The only real bummer is the Skill Focus: Knowledge skill... which doesn't even fucking matter since they immediately get their bupkiss feat back anyway.

I misread the requirements; I thought it said "and," not "or."

Bards are not decent fighters. They are a 3/4ths BAB class with no class features that help them fight and low hp.

Bards do not do decent buffs. Their buffing class features suck because it provides the same bonus type that clerics hand out and because it requires your standard action.

Alter self, blur, mirror image--those are all crappy buffs? Those don't help in combat?

Bards do not heal decently. They don't have access to heal or mass heal and the healing spells they DO get they're woefully behind on--and the cure line of spells already don't do donkey dick in real combat in 3E already.

Define "real combat." I realize that my group isn't exactly optimized, but the bard has been useful as a healer in many of our game sessions. She also managed to save the cleric with a well-timed feather fall.

If you want a skillmonkey, get a rogue.

Or someone who can cast spells but doesn't require them in order to function out of combat.

Bards suck. The only core class that sucks more than bards are monks, but that's not saying much.

Pshaw. I would wager that a bard could beat a fighter.

[Roy]

Bard pimps Inspire, Arcane Strike, Snowflake Wardance, and whatever else to get lots of attack bonus to sac into PA, while using miss chance illusions as real defenses. My bet is on Music Man.

[Psychic Robot]

I'd put my money on the bard in Core only. He can do so many more things than the fighter can, just with skills.

[Lago PARANOIA]

PP in the Dragon 370 Magazine, Manual of the Planes.

Normally I wouldn't mention Dragon Magazine stuff, but since WotC is insisting on placing every bit of material they have into the DDI character builder I suppose it's the dawn of a new era. Anyway.


Lawbreaker’s Doom (11th level): You can use lawbreaker’s doom as an encounter power.

Lawbreaker’s Doom
Encounter * Special
Free Action
Target: One enemy you just marked.
Effect: Until the end of the encounter, whenever you hit the target with an attack, you deal extra damage equal to your Wisdom modifier and the target is slowed until the end of your next turn.
Special: When the target is reduced to 0 hit points, you regain the use of this power.

Immobilizing Action (11th level): Whenever you spend an action point to make an extra attack against the target of your lawbreaker’s doom power, on a hit with that attack the target is also immobilized until the start of your next turn.

Strength of Conviction (16th level): Whenever you reduce the target of your lawbreaker’s doom power to 0 hit points, you gain temporary hit points equal to 10 + your Strength modifier.

Dispensed Justice Encounter 11
Encounter * Fear, Weapon; Special
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage, and the target takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls until the end of your next turn.
Special: You can instead use this power as an immediate interrupt with the following trigger.
Trigger: The target of your lawbreaker’s doom power is adjacent to you and makes an attack that does not include you.
Target: The triggering creature.

Red Death Utility 12
Encounter * Special
Minor Action Close burst 1
Target: Each enemy in burst
Effect: The target is marked and is subject to your lawbreaker’s doom power until the end of your next turn.

Blood Oath Fulfilled Attack 20
Daily * Fear, Weapon; Special
Standard Action Close burst 1
Target: Each enemy in burst
Special: You can shift 1 square before the attack.
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 3[W] + Strength modifier damage, and the target is knocked prone and cannot stand (save ends).
Miss: Half damage.
Lawbreaker’s Doom: If the target is also the target of your lawbreaker’s doom power, you gain a bonus to attack rolls against it equal to your Wisdom modifier.


Every single one of its class features are pure platinum for a Tron Paladin and for a Shielding Swordmage, a Warden, or a Fighter they're just pure gold.

It's really one of the best PPs I've ever seen. If you want raw, filthy damage it's still behind a Pit-Fighter, but the Son of Mercy has a bunch of stuff that you really want.

[RandomCasualty2]

The bard's main two abilities are just being a diplomancer and using the fascinate ability. Fascinate is nice for the reason that it lets your allies back away from combat and go cast a ton of buffs, and it's nearly impossible for the monster to ever resist it, because the DC is your skill check. And at the very least, you can possibly get in a few actions via fascinate and having your allies delay actions until after the monster's turn then all attacking as one.

The diplomancer bard is pretty awesome too. I mean glibness alone basically means that you can get anyone to believe anything.

The main thing that the bard is bad at is actually killing people. He can give his allies time to buff/retreat or he can convince an NPC of nearly anything, but when he starts fighting with a sword, he pretty much sucks.

[Avoraciopoctules]

Assuming that we're talking about the 3.x Bard, what about Dragonfire Inspiration (or whatever that ability that lets you convert to-hit mods to damage dice is called)? I've heard that's decent if you optimize a bit.

[MartinHarper]

Fascinate is nice for the reason that it lets your allies back away from combat and go cast a ton of buffs...

Fascinate doesn't seem to be usable in combat. Fascinate mostly seems nice for Suggestion spam out of combat.

[Roy]

Assuming that we're talking about the 3.x Bard, what about Dragonfire Inspiration (or whatever that ability that lets you convert to-hit mods to damage dice is called)? I've heard that's decent if you optimize a bit.

Comes instead of Inspire Courage. Given that +1/+1 translates to +3 damage via PA and possibly more than that, and Dragonfire gets you +3.5 elemental (which is far more commonly resisted) I'd just take the damn Inspire. Though if you can get more than one Music Man, by all means.

Now, Bards aren't a powerhouse. But they can easily out beatstick a Fighter.