3E/4E Critical Hit Fail

Murtak · Post by **Murtak** » Fri May 15, 2009 4:42 pm

Why would anyone actively looking at overcoming DR even care about the -1 to damage the basic silver weapons give you? I mean, we are talking about mid or high level melee specialists here. Rogues will add half a dozen dice in damage, chargers will add the odd hundred points and even the most basic of fighter builds will add 20 damage on every hit. A -1 might as well not exist.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri May 15, 2009 4:49 pm

Murtak wrote:Why would anyone actively looking at overcoming DR even care about the -1 to damage the basic silver weapons give you? I mean, we are talking about mid or high level melee specialists here. Rogues will add half a dozen dice in damage, chargers will add the odd hundred points and even the most basic of fighter builds will add 20 damage on every hit. A -1 might as well not exist.

Anyone mid or high level is going to be using Pandemonic Silver or Astral Drift Metal. Those things are silver and have no damage penalty. More importantly, they have cool bonuses and are cheap. There's just no reason for mid to high level melee specialists to be using basic inferior equipment. And basic silver totally qualifies.

-Username17

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Fri May 15, 2009 4:59 pm

Murtak wrote:Why would anyone actively looking at overcoming DR even care about the -1 to damage the basic silver weapons give you? I mean, we are talking about mid or high level melee specialists here. Rogues will add half a dozen dice in damage, chargers will add the odd hundred points and even the most basic of fighter builds will add 20 damage on every hit. A -1 might as well not exist.

Roy wrote:So there are literally 2 fucking monsters in the game where silver or cold iron would matter against. DR/Adamantine is a bit more common than that, but far more importantly it blocks Sundertards from ruining your character with trivial ease (as long as they go for the weapon or shield, if they aim at anything else it's still time to burn the character sheet).

...

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri May 15, 2009 5:02 pm

Roy, seriously, the post exactly before yours refuted that. Silver comes in at like 5-15% of the opposition from levels 10-15. When people bust out actual numbers, having you revert to hyperbole does not help your cause.

-Username17

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Fri May 15, 2009 7:22 pm

I have to admit, I totally haven't seen a monster with DR adamantium.

...But at the same time, I've never wanted a -1 weapon, ever.

-Crissa

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Fri May 15, 2009 7:48 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:Roy, seriously, the post exactly before yours refuted that. Silver comes in at like 5-15% of the opposition from levels 10-15. When people bust out actual numbers, having you revert to hyperbole does not help your cause.

-Username17

So, whoop de fucking do, you get like +4 or +9 vs 10% of the enemies and -1 to the rest. Funny how that, at best averages out to fucking ZERO and will more likely yield a negative integer.

Or, assuming you go dumpster diving for some planar bullshit metal, you get +4 or +9 10% of the time... which averages out to 0.4 to 0.9. Again, whoop de fucking do. Especially when you have Sundertards spamming Character Ruination. Which adamantine blocks. I don't fucking know nor care if the dumpster dive metals block them. Probably not.

How ya like them numbers?

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Fri May 15, 2009 7:58 pm

Man, your floccinoccinihilipilification never ends, does it?

Dismissive Fail is dismissive, good to know.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Fri May 15, 2009 8:10 pm

virgileso wrote:Man, your floccinoccinihilipilification never ends, does it?

Dismissive Fail is dismissive, good to know.

Aside from your post discussing itself, what purpose do these words serve?

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Fri May 15, 2009 8:58 pm

Roy, just shut the fuck up for once. No one cares. You aren't smiting anything.

You can tell us things are bad all fucking day, no one is ever going to have anything but contempt for you, because regardless of whether we agree about a specific thing, you just spend all your time declaring X to be bad and never make an argument about why it is bad.

If you want to convince people, use arguments.

If you want to preach to the choir, tell them why they are right.

If you want to circle jerk or "smite", go somewhere else.

Draco_Argentum · Post by **Draco_Argentum** » Sat May 16, 2009 9:06 am

+1 Kaelik's post

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Sat May 16, 2009 11:56 am

Kaelik wrote:Roy, just shut the fuck up for once. No one cares. You aren't smiting anything.

You can tell us things are bad all fucking day, no one is ever going to have anything but contempt for you, because regardless of whether we agree about a specific thing, you just spend all your time declaring X to be bad and never make an argument about why it is bad.

If you want to convince people, use arguments.

If you want to preach to the choir, tell them why they are right.

If you want to circle jerk or "smite", go somewhere else.

No you. If you want to see arguments against the Fail, read the thread. Though why you'd even want to spend any time in this thread I dunno. Especially since you were also smiting the Sundertards.

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Mon May 18, 2009 5:22 pm

Wait... we're not using Metalline weapons made from Aurorum? What did I miss?

Draco_Argentum · Post by **Draco_Argentum** » Tue May 19, 2009 1:30 am

wtf is Aurorum?

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Tue May 19, 2009 3:49 am

It's a metal from the BoED that lets you reform a sundered weapon as a full-round action.

Amra · Post by **Amra** » Tue May 19, 2009 9:20 am

Whether or not that restores any magical properties is up for grabs though. RAW, probably not:

Book of Exalted Deeds wrote:Aurorum: This luminous steel gleams with varying hues of pink and indigo. An aurorum weapon, shield, or suit of armor that has been sundered can be reformed by bringing together its fragments (a full-round action). The broken pieces bond quickly and seamlessly, restoring the item to its previous state. The market price modifier for an aurorum weapon, shield, or suit of armor is +4,000 gp.

Aurorum has the same hit points per inch of thickness and
hardness as regular steel.

...so, not terribly useful at all really.

Goodness only knows why you'd ever make armour out of it: you can't sunder armour somebody's wearing and don't want to sunder armour somebody isn't wearing. I suppose it's useful against Dispel Magic + Shatter combos, should anybody care.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Tue May 19, 2009 10:34 am

Except you've turned it into another type of metal. Oops.

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Tue May 19, 2009 12:49 pm

I'd say "restoring the item to its previous state" covers restoring its powers.

The bigger grey area is Roy's point about Metalline's interaction with Aurorum and what takes precedence when its destroyed.

I would personally argue that the Metalline magic goes when its broken, as do all its magical properties but the metal itself remains Aurorum. Sort of like killing a shapeshifter who then reverts to their original form. The magic goes, it turns back to Aurorum and then you reform it.

I find that the most compelling way to work through the issue but its hardly explicitly spelled out anywhere in the rules.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Tue May 19, 2009 12:59 pm

Though, a Shadowstriking Aurorum weapon would work fine. What's more, it ignores ALL DR, not just material based and as it does not actually change its form, there is no ambiguity.

Course, it's the stuff OTHER than weapons and shields that does not hold up well. So while you are technically immune now, before you could have just had like Hardness 30 and 75-80 HP or so which just means anyone who could have broken your weapon could have broken your face with the same auto attack sequence. In other words, you were practically immune anyways weapon wise, and shield, and it's the other stuff that is the issue.