I will MC After Sundown

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:11 pm

Korgan0 wrote:Um, I was under the impression that you spent edge on tests and stuff, so I guess I'll spend it on whatever tests come up?

Your edge reads as 1/3 instead of 3/3, so I'm not sure why you...

Okay, I see what it is, the 1 is your potency.

Edge should be expressed as X/Y, because Edge can be spent without lowering your maximum edge, which is the number that adds to your resistances and stuff.

Korgan0 · Post by **Korgan0** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:36 pm

Yeah, I know. I thought you meant you wanted potency/edge, not edge/max edge- I'll edit the sheet.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:21 pm

Well, half the reason I opted for the Hollow Ones is because I figured it gives us an easy in: I see my character as sort of a corp sponsored MiB rather than super natural middle management. The cult's interests are business, depravity and making sure said depravity sessions don't skullfuck the Vow of Silence, which seems pertinent given that apparently everyone went all-in on Prostitution Is Magic.

Also, it's kinda funny, because I read Kaelik's post and thought about how -my- character overlapped with Rex, just on the stealth end rather than as the party face. In fact, that's why I'm already done adapting a bagheera version if everyone agrees we need more muscle. And yes, Korgan and I both immediately had the same idea because bagheera really are shitkicking literal combat monsters right out of the box.

Korgan0 · Post by **Korgan0** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:58 pm

Well, crap. I hadn't even started working up a combat monster (har har) so yay whipstich!

In terms of plot hooks, let's not forget that JC is working for the Ulmi, so a plot hook can be something as simple as "hey youse, therese these guyses heres whos keeps musclings ins on ouir toifses, wese needs youse to goes takes cares of thems cause wes cants be seens doings it, capiche?" Presumably, the Ulmi don't talk with stereotypical New York gangster accents, but a man can dream.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:04 pm

So most people are interested in plot hooks based on their cult then?

So, I guess my real question is, do you want me to give you guys a punch of plot points now, and you tell me which ones you want to do, or do you want to just trust my judgment, and I'll introduce them in game?

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:48 pm

I have a slight preference for letting you use your judgement but then my character's motivations are simpler than that of Dres, for example.

BTW, I should have asked this earlier, but would you rather we list skill ratings with discipline bonuses added in? I kept those bonuses separate and listed under disciplines in order to help keep my own accounting straight while totting up the sheet but that's less important with numbers finalized.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:01 pm

Whipstitch wrote:I have a slight preference for letting you use your judgement but then my character's motivations are simpler than that of Dres, for example.

BTW, I should have asked this earlier, but would you rather we list skill ratings with discipline bonuses added in? I kept those bonuses separate and listed under disciplines in order to help keep my own accounting straight while totting up the sheet but that's less important with numbers finalized.

I would prefer something that just said:

6(10)

Or something.

Endovior · Post by **Endovior** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:58 pm

Kaelik wrote:I would prefer something that just said:

6(10)

Or something.

No problem; format changed.

That said, plot-hook-wise, Diego is under the impression that he already has pretty much everything he needs out of life. He's immortal, and has the power to control minds, so he's pretty much always surrounded by a large number of (prostitutes/cultists/gangbangers), and thus reasonably assured that there'll be someone out there to revive him if it comes down to that. He thinks that's pretty good, and vague suspicions about potential enemies aside, he's not all that worried. He should be more worried... his power base is unstable, and he has less friends and more enemies than he thinks. Whether it's Order of Daziban guys stalking him to try and recover stolen (devoured) books, rival WCL guys scheming against his position, Covenant guys upset at him for muscling in on their turf, or maybe just Luminaries who are really pissed off by the fact that his favourite pastime is abducting random women to turn them into sex slaves; Diego's plothooks pretty much revolve around him getting attacked, plotted against, or totally screwed over by some group that he's annoyed. Accordingly, his long-term goals will be either dealing with specific enemies, or acquiring powerful allies.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:08 pm

Yeah, Dres is... difficult. This is what happens when you get your character ideas from weird historical trivia. I can rework if people think it's a good idea. Hell, I did have that idea for a mi go who can do weird bug surgery with his normal disciplines and pick stuff up that makes him more combat capable with his freebie picks.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:02 am

Kaelik: Feel free to do whatever you want with plot hooks. I tried to throw in a few possibilities with the anti-anti-pope, an angy Ifrit, and multiple possible back stories.

I wouldn't worry too much about overlap, particularly if it's in role rather than specific powers. This is a game where a decent amount of overlap is a good thing, and characters can easily cover more than one role. Rex has some stealth (though not sneaky stealth), a bunch of face powers (though no Authority), and the ability to make almost anyone explode into a fine mist after singing for a minute.

The really important things, IMO, are specific utility powers like Banishment, Mirror Pocket, Burrowing, healing (Gift of Health + Revive the Flesh, or Cleanse the Body), Facade of Nonchalance, flying Beast Form, etc.

That said, I'm not going to argue against the creation of a combat monster or two. Just follow your heart, and remember that a face can be a combat monster, and a combat monster can be a sneak.

Prak_Anima wrote:Yeah, Dres is... difficult. This is what happens when you get your character ideas from weird historical trivia. I can rework if people think it's a good idea. Hell, I did have that idea for a mi go who can do weird bug surgery with his normal disciplines and pick stuff up that makes him more combat capable with his freebie picks.

Borghild is way to cool of an idea to let go. The migo medic is totally rad, but it just doesn't have quite as much character.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:19 am

Agreed, half the attraction I had to a bagheera is that while its sneaky powers aren't very flexible it is still more than sneaky enough to follow behind and act as an unseen bodyguard. That, and without the mental image of rats scurrying through Daziban libraries en masse I'm not nearly as married to the Nezumi information hoarder concept as I once was, so I thought I'd throw the possibility out there if Kaelik really is OK with us playing combat monkeys.

But anyway, I have no fundamental issue with Dres at all. She merely stuck out as the concept most likely to have a scruple or two. I actually consider that a plus, but it still might mean that some plot hooks might need more massaging than others.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:27 am

So apparently, since I initially looked at your skills, a lot of you rejiggered to not have 2 Combat, so you guys are more competent than I remembered.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:21 am

Yeah, the problem with Dres is that, while i know where she came from, I'm not sure where she's headed. The only real idea I had to that end was her trying to hunt down the remaining nazi war criminals who escaped conviction, but that seemed too one note. I'll read up on some of the setting stuff for as when my computer stops being a douche

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:14 am

Well, if some of these war criminals were literal monsters--and I'm assuming some were or else you'd just be hunting very old men at this point--then it stands to reason a fair number of them were members of supernatural organizations to begin with and you could spread a fair amount of your ire around.

For example, it's plausible that some of them were Black Hand members who used WW2 to keep mortals busy for shits and giggles. Likewise the Rolnicy takes their terminology from the comintern rather than the Nazis but they're described as flexible when it comes to ideology and they're big on unethical medical science and racial hierarchies and all sorts of crap Dres might not like just on principle.

Endovior · Post by **Endovior** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:20 am

Need to clarify some mechanics...

Firstly, mind control effects wear off on the death of the user, unless they can do Elder-level mind control. I've got a host of followers explicitly described as mindslaves, so I just wanted to clarify that they won't all immediately desert me the first time I die; since I paid for them as Assets. Essentially, when I die, any specific named individual that I am controlling can go free, but anyone who's generically part of my minion pool (or who I've incorporated into said pool, possibly by mind-controlling more powerful named individuals and increasing the value of my Assets resource) should stay loyal. Maybe a little confused, but they're still on my side.

Secondly, and more importantly... how exactly is it that Baali feed? It mentions that you need to hurt people... does that mean that you, personally, must physically inflict the wound, or can you do so more indirectly... for example, by using magic, by activating a trap, by mind-controlling someone into hurting themselves, by instructing your minions to hurt someone, etc...? There's a lot of permutations that could leave you as the active force behind an injury, with varying degrees of plausibility, but it's kind of a fuzzy distinction, compared to vampires and troglodytes, who feed on physical objects. It would be a lot easier if you could just feed off the pain of any injury inflicted within your 1 meter per potency feeding radius, but the rules text is unusually unclear on this (for Frank's writing, at least). The main reason I'm asking is for reasons of Restoration; if Baali can't either feed off either any pain inflicted in their radius, or by leaving specific instructions for pain to be inflicted in their presence following their demise, then they're the only supernatural type who can't regain PP after death. (And the specific instructions bit is an unusually narrow restriction.) I asked about this in the AS main thread, but haven't received a reply, so I figured I'd get your views on it, since you're the MC and all.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:57 am

Traditionally, Mind Control is something you do that doesn't result in Assests, and Assests are different, and if you pay for Assests you get stuff not mind controlled.

That said, mind control breaks on your death, and you will therefore lose all your mind slaves... Unless they are in any way confined, in which case they won't escape.

Dying is how you lose Mindslaves, just like murdering your cult leader is how you lose Cult assets. If you don't take precautions to keep them around, they go away. Realistically, it's not like you'll be dead long enough to lose the ability to round them up and keep your assets.

As for regaining PP, I would allow your mind controlled people to count, except of course, that all the mind control goes away when you die. So when it comes to waking yourself up from death, you will need to get Gift of Health blood. It's not that big a deal, I'm sure someone on your team can arrange for some guy to give you some blood if you die, it's not like there's a dearth of vampires in the world.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:07 am

Still waiting on an answer to this question so I can figure out what my 4 Assets represents:

Prak_Anima wrote:Ok, so the examples of Assets 4 are "Ghoul family" and "The CDC." Given that "ghoul" is only other wise used as a nickname for Troglodytes, and that "A pack of werewolves" is Assets 5, I'm a bit adrift as to how to judge other supernatural stuff. So, which of the following could fit for Assets 4:
A Behemoth

A small squad of killbots

An Asura

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:22 am

I don't know what you mean by killbots, but an Asura or Behemoth could be an Assets 4.

Endovior · Post by **Endovior** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:24 am

Ick. On both counts.

My intention, so far as Assets are concerned, was to basically have large numbers of essentially disposable extras, some of which would be capable of performing actions that would rez me after death. Mind control was intended to be a flavour for that, the idea being that, over time, I eventually reduce people to a state in which they have no real motivation or desire other then to continue to serve me (and thus, that the true believers will continue to hang around and do useful things after my death, though I'll have attrition around the fringes requiring urgent attention). If your ruling is "that's the wrong flavour for what you're trying to do", then I may as well just have Cultists.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:32 am

Endovior wrote:Ick. On both counts.

My intention, so far as Assets are concerned, was to basically have large numbers of essentially disposable extras, some of which would be capable of performing actions that would rez me after death. Mind control was intended to be a flavour for that, the idea being that, over time, I eventually reduce people to a state in which they have no real motivation or desire other then to continue to serve me (and thus, that the true believers will continue to hang around and do useful things after my death, though I'll have attrition around the fringes requiring urgent attention). If your ruling is "that's the wrong flavour for what you're trying to do", then I may as well just have Cultists.

Cultists won't be able to res you unless one of them is a vampire either.

Endovior · Post by **Endovior** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:56 am

What, really? You mean I actually can't regain PP by having my minions hurt themselves, unless I am explicitly mind-controlling them to do so? If so, then that actually puts Baali in the absolute worst position of all supernatural types regarding post-mortem powergains, since every single one of them is either on a Lunar schedule (and thus will rez automatically), or can receive PP from mortals. Vampires and Trogs can just be fed; Dryads can be buried, Khaibits and Golems can have simple rituals performed on their behalf, Frankensteins and Androids can be plugged in (or something else equally trivial), Fallen can have a minion fetch their artifact for them, and Icarids can have an assistant inject them with their serum (or something else equally trivial).

If Baali are the only exception, the only ones who actually can't just have mortal lackeys do something straightforward to bring them back, then that's basically a huge fuck you to my character concept, which will require that I play something else. Seriously.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:03 am

Kaelik wrote:I don't know what you mean by killbots, but an Asura or Behemoth could be an Assets 4.

By killbots I meant Animate Spawn. Asura works, I'll put that in.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:11 am

Meanwhile at the ranch, trogs have to eat sentients and are neutralized by fuckin' daylight while guys on lunar schedules can't recharge more than once a day short of Gift of Health or using Theft of Vitae on other magical creatures. Tiniest violin.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:12 am

Endovior wrote:What, really? You mean I actually can't regain PP by having my minions hurt themselves, unless I am explicitly mind-controlling them to do so? If so, then that actually puts Baali in the absolute worst position of all supernatural types regarding post-mortem powergains, since every single one of them is either on a Lunar schedule (and thus will rez automatically), or can receive PP from mortals. Vampires and Trogs can just be fed; Dryads can be buried, Khaibits and Golems can have simple rituals performed on their behalf, Frankensteins and Androids can be plugged in (or something else equally trivial), Fallen can have a minion fetch their artifact for them, and Icarids can have an assistant inject them with their serum (or something else equally trivial).

If Baali are the only exception, the only ones who actually can't just have mortal lackeys do something straightforward to bring them back, then that's basically a huge fuck you to my character concept, which will require that I play something else. Seriously.

First off, Baali aren't the only exception, there is no reason to believe that every other Ritual source can be completed while they are dead. Some might be, but by no means all.

Secondly, you can go home if you want, but the ball is mine, so it stays. You don't get to just decide that something you clearly knew wasn't possible is the make or break point for your character. It doesn't actually matter if you are raised from the dead by your cultists getting vampire blood vs stabbing themselves in worship for whether or not you wake up, and it makes a huge difference in whether or not you got the power points from an actual source of power points.

Yes, I know, you also wanted mind control that lasts after your death without having the power that lets you do that. I fail to see how you wanting more special treatment justifies this special treatment.

Endovior · Post by **Endovior** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:25 am

Ahem:

FrankTrollman wrote:Characters in horror die from time to time. Sometimes a character will end up dying several times, because After Sundown posits ghastly life after death and even has magical ways to restore life to the living. When a character dies, all of their powers that cost Power Points to activate or which otherwise last for a scene end. In addition, anything they have going that could be dispelled is dispelled with their death. A character's Power pool is also emptied at the moment the character actually dies. Very importantly, a character's power schedule (if any) does not change just because they are dead. A Strigoi can still be fed blood to regain Power Points and a Frankenstein can still be recharged while a corpse. This usually only matters if they have the Restoration Power, but there are other ways to raise the dead, and it might be important that they rise up with a power reserve on hand.

So, uh... fairly explicitly, Rituals can be done to the dead without much trouble. The mind-control thing I don't even care about; it's a triviality compared to being able to self-sufficiently rez (by which I mean, not needing to involve any other PCs in the process). Again, the mind-control is not the issue, I can reflavour my minions no problem... but if they aren't actually able to rez me, because I'm the one supernatural type that actually doesn't work that way, then the whole character concept I've been working on is worthless, and I may as well wipe my character sheet and make a vampire or something.