Bigotry

[PhoneLobster]

is actually a member of the 4chan transexual community

Why would you say something that gives your source LESS credibility?

LESS likeliness of being transsexual and LESS likeliness of being a sane sensible human we should turn to on matters of social ethics?

Less likeliness in fact of being anything other than a 13 year old white male border line sociopath with Tourettes and a compulsive lying and internet trolling disorder?

It's like you are attacking yourself!

You aren't posting ironically to make the bigoted side of this argument look like total morons are you?

Because just saying "4chan" basically wins the fucking argument for Crissa hands down.

[CatharzGodfoot]

When Crissa says that referring to a hypothetical hermaphrodite as a "trap" is offensive, it comes off a bit like your crazy grandpa-in-law telling you that the word "queer" is offensive to gays, when there's some slight possibility that your grandpa-in-law is gay but there's no way you'll never know. It's difficult to determine what the social norm is. He tends to go off on crazy rants, and obviously has somewhat outdated views; it's quite possibly that he simply doesn't realize that there are seriously organizations like the queer straight alliance.

At the same time, by using the word you might be hurting him directly, and even if you aren't you're showing him disrespect. At the same time, by following his wishes you'd be disrespecting individuals such as the members of the QSA and by implication calling them bigoted. It's quite a conundrum, especially when you can't convince him otherwise and he just starts getting angry and calling you a homophobe when you try.

I'd probably just choose to avoid saying "queer" around him, and use it normally elsewhere. Sometimes you have to make compromises.

Oh, and Crissa: I don't mean to call you a crazy old man (or a relative), just giving a hypothetical example. Although you do have strange rants now and then, and sometimes your comments go way over my head.

Different words offend different people. Sometimes using a word will be offensive to a person; sometimes not using a word will be offensive. Often it depends on who is using the word. Since, online, we usually have to take people at their word, a whole new avenue opens up for misguided political correctness, accidental insult, and being really fucking bigoted. And it's even harder to follow the 'right' norms.

[Crissa]

Of course I think I know better. Fuck. If participating in public speaking on the subject of equal rights, peer counseling didn't do it, or the training therein, I certainly have spoken to more than a few internet know it alls and actually linked to real things rather than quoting some IM chats from someone on 4chan, as if they were some sort of altar of knowledge.

Yeah, I know less street people now than fifteen years ago, and I never knew many prostitutes.

But do you truly, truly think that anyone who thought that the joke wasn't empowering, would be accepted on 4chan? Or that the 'bait and switch' would be funny without homophobia? How does that even work as a joke? As if the only choice was heterosexual penis in vagina sex between a guy and a girl?

Like I said, and Deep Throat said, it is objectifying. And that's bad, GIR.

-Crissa

You know, I have one of the cards they passed out to the table at the Transmarch in SF a couple years back. I doubt they'd find the use of 'trap' in this way as empowering.

[Vnonymous]

Hey guys:

Did you know that the person I'm quoting is actually a TRANSPERSON IN THE COMMUNITY THAT WE'RE FUCKING TALKING ABOUT?

Saying that she's from 4chan is actually totally relevant to the situation at hand: that's where the term we're talking about fucking came from. She is a member of the community that spawned the term, and use it. Why exactly does being from this community make someone less credible when talking about a term that they fucking invented?

I am pretty sure that if you ask any of the people on www.trapchan.org they won't find many problems with the word "trap" used to describe them.

If Crissa and PhoneLobster actually talked to the people in question, they'd find that they have very few or no problems with the word trap. Instead they're just assuming that they're going to find the word offensive. Actually talking to people in the transgender community reveals a pretty fucking different story.

[erik]

So if it is valid to use one clique's feelings on a word but not another's, how do you decide which clique to please?

[CatharzGodfoot]

So if it is valid to use one clique's feelings on a word but not another's, how do you decide which clique to please?

That depends on how you feel about the two cliques in question, of course.

[Koumei]

There is an incredibly easy way of emulating both those things.

I'm aware that I not only could, but should, just not read MPSIMS, yeah.

Much as for me this forum pretty much lacks endless amounts of boring race and class threads because I rarely if ever visit it's my own creation since it was taken over by the crowd that does nothing but spew out seemingly endless amounts of derivative d20 material.

Ouch.

But wait, I thought you liked d20. I mean, you hate 2d10/3d6/4d4+1d8-1d12/(10d100)/5-1 systems with a galactic fury.

You know I think a lot of people here need to spend some serious time in Blue Eyes therapy.

I'm going to guess this doesn't include me, but... what's Blue Eyes therapy?

[Crissa]

See, notice, the use to a tiny group of internet insiders to represent all transwomen. That site, the posters on 4chan - they wouldn't be posters on that site or on 4chan unless they thought being objectified and reduced to a homophobic joke was 'empowering'.

What about the rest of transgendered women, who don't like to be objectified or have their privacy invaded?

And once again, the argument that if a transperson or woman doesn't out themselves to you - they don't get to comment on this word. It's a catch-22 for any woman (or transwoman). Either they're insulted - they have a penis! but don't - or they get their privacy invaded.

All because I asked not to make the stupid joke.

-Crissa

I mean, geez, I know more transpeople who've died than users on trapchan. Fuck.

[erik]

Actually many people arguing against you Crissa make no demand or desire that anyone should out themselves. Quite the opposite, they have claimed that one's status is irrelevant.

I saw ceilingcat make the argument that leads to the conclusion one must out themselves to have a say. If you are still attempting to refute that then no need to bother since they left.

P.S.
Saw you edited in some anecdotal evidence. Is it your claim, Crissa, that majority rules when two segments of a clique have differing opinions on whether a word is offensive? That seems like you are pushing for outing as a basis of judgement. =-(

[Crissa]

Have I ever?

I said that it's impolite to require that, especially in regards to an insult implies an invasion of privacy.

But notice, erik, that they're still arguing for the right to the insult.

Do you believe in democratic language? I don't know if I do. I have to live in a world that seems to follow it, having made a few choices I was opposed to in my lifetime. Alas.

I also didn't quote any outed transperson on the subject: I linked to articles about the assault and murder of transpersons because of a real-life version of this 'joke'. I asked (perhaps less than politely) for the slang not to be used.

It wasn't a difficult request to follow. It's no different than requesting fbmf that there be no racist slang on the board.

-Crissa

[PhoneLobster]

I'm going to guess this doesn't include me, but... what's Blue Eyes therapy?

A reference to the work of Jane Elliott. Unfortunately I can't find the Blue Eyes documentary, where she was going around applying the blue eyes exercise to white middle class adults in modern times.

But THIS site should tell you a lot of the details.

Long story short. A teacher in a white middle class American town could not make her students understand what racism even was because they had hardly even encountered a person of a different race in their white white community.

So she basically performed an exercise where she separated the children arbitrarily (by eye colour) and exposed them to racist treatment.

Blah blah blah, community outrage, children have amazing learning experience that influences them to this day, teacher ends up doing a circuit of special adult education seminars where she performs a beefed up version of the blue eyes routine on adults.

One of the most interesting aspects of her work is the discovery of what totally fucking pussies privileged white "adult" men really are. Not that its just them, some of those Blue Eyed girls find the learning experience surprising as well.

She exposes them to levels of discrimination less extreme than I had to fucking get used to when I was fucking FOUR and they break down and cry like the emotionally undeveloped children they are. They seriously did not understand discrimination because they had never seriously experienced it in their lives.

But anyway. You get a bunch of mostly white people together. You get a mean primary school teacher to treat the "Blue Eyes" like stupid irresponsible troublesome children and bam! The basic mechanics of how exclusion and oppression really works and FEELS finally breaks through to them.

Because apparently it is invisible to stupid white men unless they are on the receiving end.

As is largely evidenced by a lot of this thread and something like 80% of white people I meet.

[erik]

I think the common ground that would satisfy damn near everyone is if folks agree to avoid slang out of respecting a request rather than acquiring the belief that it is bad to say. And for those who do not or cannot follow that request offended persons can ignore them via the board system or the old fashioned way (my preferred means).

If someone told me that they hated the phrase "in a pickle" I might try my best to avoid using it. I might fail from time to time since it is hard for me to keep track of everything that offends other people and I hope folks would not take it personal when I fail.

Does that sound like something most folk can get behind?

[Username17]

I think the common ground that would satisfy damn near everyone is if folks agree to avoid slang out of respecting a request rather than acquiring the belief that it is bad to say. And for those who do not or cannot follow that request offended persons can ignore them via the board system or the old fashioned way (my preferred means).

If someone told me that they hated the phrase "in a pickle" I might try my best to avoid using it. I might fail from time to time since it is hard for me to keep track of everything that offends other people and I hope folks would not take it personal when I fail.

Does that sound like something most folk can get behind?

Actually no. If Crissa or CielingCat had brought out such a proposal at the beginning, I would have gone along with it without complaint. But they didn't. They came out swinging with bigoted, hateful, pointless, and factually incorrect arguments piled high the the ceiling and beyond.

At this point I want a fucking apology. I'll come clean that I basically never use the word "trap" because I'm only peripherally aware of 4chan dialect and don't really care about peoples' gender issues that much. But that's going to change. I'm going to use that word a whole fuck lot more now. Because I'm seriously offended.

CielingCat's charge that only people who have outed themselves as trans get to have a say about trans terminology is offensive. It is also dangerous, since she's saying that people who aren't out yet don't get to talk about their feelings. That shit is fucked up, and there is absolutely no way in hell I would ever support her in such a vicious and bigoted and self-entitled proposal.

Crissa's rambling invective filled tirade doesn't even make any fucking sense. She's saying that I don't get to talk because I'm straight and male, and that she gets to determine how subcultures can talk about themselves because um... no fucking reason. It's vile, it's stupid, and I am personally offended and offended on behalf of other people who she is also attacking without reason or cause.

No. The line is drawn here. The word Trap is being used. And if you don't like it, that's fine. And if you have shit to say to me or anyone else about, then fuck you.

-Username17

[Prak]

Nobody here has ever even come close to saying that it's okay to commit hate crimes.

But apparently you're okay with a group of Stormfront guys picking up a game here and tossing around their free speech?

In order to not be a hypocrite, or liar, yes. I said something, so I kind of have to stand by it. On the other hand, nothing stops me from requesting to join their game and then troll it as hard as fucking possible.

Actually I have a lesbian friend who is afraid of the whole "chick with a dick" incident too. But I guess she's homophobic too... oh wait...

Yes, she probably is. Although that would be transphobia, specifically. There's a long and storied history of outspoken lesbians attacking transwomen and excluding them out of bigotry.

-Crissa

One piece of stupid bullshit at a time, alright? let's get this one handled first, then we can rant about idiots who defame people making the very same point the idiots themselves make.

I said a statement was offensive. That should be the end of it. Instead we get a huge diatribe about how it isn't offensive. That's the opposite of respectful.

The problem is your credibility. Not only do you have issues with etymology and word origins, but you choose words that are on the fringe to get upset about. That results in people not believing you when you say something is offensive.

In other words, your privilege trumps someone asking politely. Notice your next paragraph, which is anti-feminist:

I have actually taken a college course on feminism where the spear in your avatar's hand would be considered offensive because spears are phallic and OMG PENIS!!!111!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not like you're not just a big hypocrite that has no reason to even post in this thread.

It was absurd.

no Crissa, Maj's point was anti-idiot. Pointing out that feminists will frequently go so far in their outrage as to declare everything with a penis evil, and everything long, thin-ish and penetrating a penis and therefore evil. It's a shame that a lot of feminists are idiots more caught up in daddy issues and knee jerks who couldn't make a well reasoned argument out a wet paper bag, it really is a shame, but they exist.

I was under the impression that it was the people on your side of the argument who tend to dismiss the opinion of people outside the "target" group. I've felt the need to speak up about my opinion and bring my gender into it precisely because you've shown absolutely no respect toward males who feel a word doesn't mean what you think it does.

Ahh, yes, the gender defender. Because you're a heterosexual white woman, who has her identity embedded into the society. I know there are Republican women, too. That doesn't stop them from being wrong.

wrong? why? because you can't be a republican and have tits? that's bullshit. And not every republican argument or stance is wrong. A number are certainly debatable, at least, some may be wrong (I stay the fuck out of partisan politics, so I don't fucking know), and certainly some republicans would be greatly improved by death, but a person being wrong because their gender doesn't match their politics? I'm sorry, that's utter bullshit.

You then go on about victimhood. Of course, I didn't say that. CeilingCat did. She asked you to not act stuck up and privileged.

But you're here, predictably with the pro-misogyny crowd. Who else are we missing? Is there anyone who was pro-misogyny who isn't now pro-bigotry?

-Crissa

what misogyny? if anything you were saying trap was misandrist or misotransexualist, it has no offensive meaning towards women because a trap is a guy.
Your own argument tells us this is not misogynst.

Say trap all the fuck you want when you're talking about bad Star Wars movies or Yugioh. But when trap is used to describe a transvestite/transgendered/feminine-looking male, it means a specific thing. Your attempt to obfuscate the issue by going 'trap isn't a universally agreed on term' and 'a lot of people don't use the word in that way' is deceitful bullshit.

Yes. Trap, when used to refer to a transvestite/transgendered/feminine looking guy means precisely one thing: "Oh shit, there's a penis." It goes no further than that. There are people who refer to "delicious traps" there are people who refer to "evil traps." Without any kind of modifier, all it means is "Oh shit, penis."

You still do not get to make the decision what people find offensive. You totally can parade around the thing they find offensive, but once again, you don't get to complain when they call you bigoted. Talk like a duck, be called a duck.

And again, Crissa, that argument means that we can call you a bigot too, because you have implied that the thoughts and opinions of white people, males, straight people and republicans don't matter.

Please, ubernoob, in your infinite wisdom, what is bigotry?

And how is it demonstrated by pointing out that white boys have privilege?

Please. Find some links. Explain.

But you won't. Because you don't mind being a liar.

Ah, I see the problem here... Crissa you seem to be experiencing the thread backwards. You see, Uber gave a dictionary definition right before the quoted post. It's all clear now, just turn your internet cord around and that should fix the problem.

IF that does not fix the problem, then the solution is really simple... you take your internet device, modem, dsl box, wi fi receiver, whatever it is, and run it over with your car three or four times. After this, everything should be fixed.

I would try to actually post like that from now on regarding Crissa, but I'm just not that good at guessing what someone's about to say...

Or that the 'bait and switch' would be funny without homophobia?

Yes, the bait and switch is amusing without homophobia. it actually gets more amusing when rather than "Oh my god no!" the scenario plays out:
Gentleman: Why, what a lovely young lady, I wish to make the sex with her, I believe I will go talk to her and convince her to accompany me home tonight.
*seduction occurs*
*Young "lady" disrobes, cock appears*
Gentleman: My, I did not realize you had a penis, I'm sorry if I misled you to believe I wanted that, and I am sorry I do not. Please, though, you were an impressive little trap, let me share a drink with you, while we await a cab to take you home, it's my expense.

but then I find all of that kind of thing amusing.
(it's even more amusing if you make the gentleman Sir Brain...)

So if it is valid to use one clique's feelings on a word but not another's, how do you decide which clique to please?

Oh that's easy, it's when it gets beyond three... oh... that's a "-que"...
hmm.... that's... harder.

See, notice, the use to a tiny group of internet insiders to represent all transwomen. That site, the posters on 4chan - they wouldn't be posters on that site or on 4chan unless they thought being objectified and reduced to a homophobic joke was 'empowering'.

No, see, they wouldn't be parts of those communities if they had skin thinner than paper. It's a fucking joke, not everyone's life is ruined because someone on the internet makes a funny at their expense.

I mean, geez, I know more transpeople who've died than users on trapchan. Fuck.

You know Crissa, all due respect, but you know what? sucks to be them.

also didn't quote any outed transperson on the subject: I linked to articles about the assault and murder of transpersons because of a real-life version of this 'joke'. I asked (perhaps less than politely) for the slang not to be used.

except that, once again, the way 'trap' was, allegedly, used in those cases wasn't the same way it was used here.

No. The line is drawn here. The word Trap is being used. And if you don't like it, that's fine. And if you have shit to say to me or anyone else about, then fuck you.

Frank, thank you for occasionally reminding me why you're my fucking hero.


oh, and:

[Starmaker]

And just because I'm curious... How can you tell class by looking at a bunch of people?

Probably because they have computers. And Internet. And sure their computers are hi-end and Internet is top speed because imageboards are highly demanding in terms of bandwidth and system resources.

Yes, she probably is. Although that would be transphobia, specifically. There's a long and storied history of outspoken lesbians attacking transwomen and excluding them out of bigotry.

No, that's sexual preference. Sex, as I've heard, has something to do with genitalia, which are not normally displayed in public. So Person1 can be outwardly sexually attractive to Person2 until it is revealed that Person1's hidden qualities are not compliant with Person2's standards of fuckability. And it's not like people can choose what is arousing and what is not.

But sure, misogynist women exist, and bigoted lesbians exist. It would be strange if a statistically representative group was lacking idiots.

Or that the 'bait and switch' would be funny without homophobia? How does that even work as a joke? As if the only choice was heterosexual penis in vagina sex between a guy and a girl?

Hitting on someone and then having to say "sorry, not interested" is embarrassing, whatever the cause. And embarrassment is laughed off. That's how it works as a joke.

Like I said, and Deep Throat said, it is objectifying. And that's bad, GIR.

People are complex individuals, but occasionally a need arises to put a tag on them. The tag, having less bytes than the person's biography and thoughts combined, will by necessity reduce them to a stereotype. And of course, bringing up someone's fuckability is, by definition, objectifying.

I don't like when people are identified by their hair color in writing. I find it insulting when someone says there are only 16 different classes of people and if you share some of the qualities of two or more classes (e.g. "likes football" and "likes reading"), you're a freak who needs therapy ASAP. It is insulting when someone says "I discussed combustion drives with that lesbian from Materials and Devices dept.", but it's fine when they are saying they were discussing gender issues.

Now, the words themselves are cultural things. If a person finds a word used in relation to them offensive (and they will, sooner or later), you stop using it if you don't want to offend that particular person.

The "I'm half Jewish myself" meme exists for a reason: people claiming to belong to a minority use blanket insults, justifying it by the fact that they are also insulting themselves. That won't do. But some words are offensive in actual meaning (compilation offenses?) and others in use (run-time offenses?), and it's possible to reclaim the latter through use (which are blanket insults). I'm not saying it should be done and everyone should damn well like it or else, but people are doing it.

Consider the N-word. In most parts of the world it is a racist slur, but aside from that the word is not bad. Some black people are using it to refer to themselves. Other black people detest it. Do they have a right to censure reclaimers?

LGBT terminology is messed up. There are insults, euphemisms for insults, and heavy stereotyping within the community itself. When talking about groups or specific people whose preferences are not known, I try to stay out of trouble by using the words that compose the acronym, and the word "dyke" in relation to myself: I'm normal, I'm not "sexual" and I've never been to Lesbos.

"Trap", which is not originally an offensive word, received its memetic meaning on 4chan and is still used largely by *channers. 4chan started as an anime imageboard, and a lot of anime stresses the attractiveness (and fuckability) of characters. 4chan was all about "ogling pretty cartoon characters". Abuse? Murder? What the fuck. The original traps weren't real people: a bunch of lines resembling a human with flowing hair on the head, no hair on the face, pronounced hips and a thin waist doesn't have a definite gender until it's revealed outright in the cartoon.

It is often said that abusers are closet cases, projecting their hate of themselves (due to being aroused by a person of the same sex) on that person. 4chan made it normal, even cool, to fap to trans people and characters, and thus it's a huge step forward. Objectifying? Sure. The site offers enough opportunity to get recognized as an expert in whatever; being objectified is the goal of people who show their private parts on cam. Seriously, the place where people routinely call themselves [EDITED] and traps is one of the most gay- and trans-friendly places on the Internet. They're not attracting -phobic trash that insult people left and right; they're attracting would-be modern-and-edgy newbs (teenagers) and teach them that freedom of speech is awesome and finding transsexuals attractive is nothing to be ashamed of.

[PhoneLobster]

At this point I want a fucking apology.

And here class we view the ignorant entitlement of the stupid white male.

Note that if you look up that Blue Eyed/Class Divided stuff I mentioned when it was first revealed to the public what that teacher was up to the prevalent response was "how dare she do that to white children" a response which has within it ingrained the myopic exclusion of the realization that this "excercise" and worse was done to black children routinely for their entire lives and not just one day.

So note how Frank's primary concern from the beginning has been the "hurt feelings" of himself, and the other folks who have been throwing sexuality based slurs, and starting hateful insulting personal attack threads like kaeliks petty spiteful piece of shit about wanting to be called "it", and this one which had the OP apologizing within half a page!. (That is NOT the behavior of people engaging in or defending free speech, that is the behavior of SOCIAL OPPRESSION, the proof of their position is their actions Frank you stupid shit.)

Because the only offense he can perceive in this situation is the inconvenience to himself and the other white males. The only right he wishes to protect is his and their right to oppress. At no point does he feel empathy for the other side, at no point does he even PERCEIVE that any other offense has occurred. What? Someone started threads specifically designed to attack, offend, and humiliate a single posters, so bad it only needed a handful of sentences in the OP to be locked in six posts? Oh no THAT isn't fucking oppressive bullshit behavior it's Frank Trollman and gangs fucking god given right as stupid fucking white males.

Because oppression is invisible to him until HE feels it personally. Typical dumb entitled white male.

Maybe we SHOULD invite the Storm Front guys over for a tea party. They certainly would be inclined to try and pull the oppression gambit on a him.

A bet you that antisemitism is "different" though. Or you know, should I go and start an attack thread talking about how he is a typical myopic self interested Jew? I mean that IS my right as a white male and if anyone calls me a bigot, just like Frank Trollman I can demand they apologize to me.

[Kaelik]

So note how Frank's primary concern from the beginning has been the "hurt feelings" of himself, and the other folks who have been throwing sexuality based slurs, and starting hateful insulting personal attack threads like kaeliks petty spiteful piece of shit about wanting to be called "it", and this one which had the OP apologizing within half a page!. (That is NOT the behavior of people engaging in or defending free speech, that is the behavior of SOCIAL OPPRESSION, the proof of their position is their actions Frank you stupid shit.)

Phone Lobster, you fucking retard.

1) You don't know who's a white male and who isn't, so ignoring your complete and total hypocritical bigotry of all white males, it doesn't even apply to half the people.

2) My petty spiteful piece of shit? Oh I see, so when Ceiling Cat wants something, and doesn't even ask me to do it, I'm a fucking sexist for not mind reading. But when I specifically ask for the same courtesy, I'm a petty spiteful piece of shit that couldn't possibly be serious.

FUCK YOU, YOU HYPOCRITICAL BIGOTED SHITFACE.

I made a serious request, and your response is that any time Kaelik asks for anything it must be an insult.

Fine you hypocritical bigoted shit head, you win. I'm putting you on ignore because I can't tolerate your stupid shitty ass lying, your stupid shitty ass accusations based on nothing, and your stupid shitty ass hypocritical bigotry.

It's so important that Ceiling Cat get to be called whatever she wants, but when I ask for something, team offended never even once gives it to me. Zinegata tried, Uber usually forgets, but every single hypocritical bigoted asshole on team offended goes out of their fucking way to keep calling me something that I specifically asked you not to, because you are a fucking hypocritical bigoted asshole.

And now, to top it off, in addition to constant and unceasingly performing the exact action that I was called a bigot for for months, you turn around and call me a bigot for having asked for the same right that you demanded I give to another.

Fuck you, Die in a Fire.

[virgil]

White males aren't subject to bigotry? White males can be Jewish, they can be atheists in deeply religious communities (like rural Utah), etc.

My only confusion is the seeming mix between the use of slang in general and in this specific instance. People are showing obvious personal offense to certain words. Some of the arguments that are claimed for why they're offensive seem nonsensical, but taking offense to something is a personal matter; as shown by the fact some words are accepted by one group yet not by another within the same demographic.

While initially I thought Crissa could've been more explicit as to which word(s) was 'derogatory slang' or at least not get so offended at people getting confused as to which one she was talking about; it does seem like Kaelik and Prak encouraged a fight to defend their 'right' to use a word Crissa found offensive.

[Kaelik]

While initially I thought Crissa could've been more explicit as to which word(s) was 'derogatory slang' or at least not get so offended at people getting confused as to which one she was talking about; it does seem like Kaelik and Prak encouraged a fight to defend their 'right' to use a word Crissa found offensive.

1) I encouraged a fight to defend Prak's right to use a word, because I haven't actually at any point tried to use trap, because it hasn't come up on this forum for me.

2) Prak (and I, and everyone else) have the right to use words that Crissa finds offensive. Crissa and PL find being a white male to be offensive, and find white males talking about anything at all offensive. It's a damn good thing that white males have the right to offend her, because if they didn't they would not be allowed to talk.

3) Furthermore, the actual fight is not about if we have the right to use the word, but basically comes down to:

a) Someone says something Crissa doesn't like.
b) Crissa calls that person a bigot.
c) That person argues against the position that they are a bigot.
...
y) Crissa says incredibly bigoted things about how honky isn't a racist slur, and it's impossible to be racist against whites or sexist against men, and since all white men are by definition bigots, she can't possibly be falsely accusing someone of bigotry.
z) People realize Crissa is a bigot, and call her out.

[PhoneLobster]

Oh look Virgileso encouraged my curiosity to see your response and...

It's a damn good thing that white males have the right to offend her, because if they didn't they would not be allowed to talk.

... oh my, no you don't at all sound like a paranoid entitlement syndrome white racist male foaming at the mouth with raving bigoted anger, shame and fear.

Not at all.

I'm sure your fear of being oppressed by Crissa preventing you from oppressing her without her thanking you for it and apologizing to you afterwards is soooo real and genuine and above all else right.

It's like you just write this material purely to discredit yourself.

[fbmf]

[TGFBS]

Locked until such time as I can get from work and sort through. I will make and UNLOCK/LEAVE LOCKED decision later.
[/TGFBS]

[fbmf]

[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
Yeah, so this is staying locked.

Also, I would thank you NOT to invoke my name and what you think my beliefs are as a reason for why you are correct. Let me do that.

Lastly, if you are reporting four or more posts in a day, especially to ask policy questions that could be resolved by PM, do not get your feelings hurt when you legitimately report a post and I assume you are crying "Wolf!" again.
[/TGFBS]