josephbt at [unixtime wrote:1154762720[/unixtime]]
So you claim that you spoke with “them”? Did you listen? Did you listen for one single second?
I said I did. You can call me a liar, if you want. We'll get back to how ironic it is for you to say so at the end of the post.
Did you see the wall you country is building before this meeting?
Yes.
Ever been to a refugee camp? I have. I've seen the suffering. Are there any Israeli refugee camps? Ever been to one?
Ladies and gentelman, welcome to "The deaf speaking to the blind 2 - electric boogaloo". (You know, I only figured out that "the deaf are supposed to be using sign language fairly recently. *shrug* All the deaf people I met spoke, with an audible accent, and yet)
Yes, there are Israeli refugee camps. As I pointed out, there are thousands of refugees in Israel at the moment. Those that are photogenically injured have their hotel bills sponsored by the goverment.
Others have to live in tent cities. Running water and medical facilities are provided, naturally. "Israel's most beloved artists" enertain them free of charge. Life is good. If the whole thing lasts for less than a month or two.
...
Now comes the part where I'm talking to myself. Even more than I did previously, I mean.
Back in 1948, 50-70% of the Arabs living in Israel (approx 700.000 people) fled / were forced from their homes. At the same time, 80-95% of the Jews living in Arab countries (approx 900.000 people) were forced from/fled their homes. Obviously, the exact numbers and forcefullness of the eviction are contested by both sides, but "approx the same amount" seems like a feasible compromise.
The Jews came to Israel. They had to struggle to escape poverty, they were discriminated against, they were sprayed with DDT to eradicate the bugs. At the moment, most people in Israel are brown, and while there's still some difference in income states and education...
The Arabs/Palestinians came to to Arab lands. You might note, that there are a lot more Arab lands (and Arabs) than... well you know, the same in Israel. They were kept in refugee camps and squalor by their Arab brothers. Well, except for the relative few that managed to improve their situation, and the relative few that immigrated to a non-arab country. Oh, and the less than few that joined the various terrorist organizations. The average Palestinian living within the occupied territories is economically (and medically, etc) better off than a Palestinian living in Jordan, Lebanon, etc. (again, fact.) But, he has to live with the fact that the boot of the Zionist opressor is on his neck at all times, so I suppose it's not worth it.
Edit - just in case I was being unclear. The people who put the Palestinians in refugee camps were the Arabs. The people who refused to integrate the Palestinians into their lands (with ample justification) were the Arabs. We are being blamed for refusing to help our enemies, while the people who created the situation aren't willing to help their brothers.
No, this is not a "Look, a UFO". Nor is it a justification for anything. You asked me if there are any Israeli refugee camps. I told you the reasons why there aren't any. As opposed.
nuff said. you might as well wrap those tags arround your whole posts
Play the game. Play the game, tell me your score, and give me a hypothesis explaining why the situation is as it stands. I would just as rather not discuss the literary merits of Pasternak's writing with someone who "never read it, but condemns him anyway". (old USSR quote. I assure you that it applies here)
...
Is there any amount of factual evidence that could possibly convince you that what I say is true?
Have you... listened to what I'm saying, even for a second?
Not being able to accept information that contradicts your opinion about the way the universe is supposed to worked is an imperfection of the mind.
I'm big on individualism, deciding what's wrong and right for myself, not based on the opinion of any group. Accepting, as a 15 yeard old liberal, that what Hollywood told me is false, not all wars are a result of a mis-understanding that everyone on both sides are anxious to stop, that a
whole nation can hate another nation and wish death upon it... that was hard. But I had to do it, because the alternative would be to deny the information staring me in the face, and turn to the pretty pictures in my mind to provide me with the proper way the world should work instead. I started investigating what actual Palestinians were saying, hoping that what I understood from my first encounter was some freak accident...
I don't know nearly as much about the conflict in your land as I'd like. Despite watching a thousand films (or was it the same film a thousand times? No offense, but most of the movies about your war, starting with Kusturica and finishing with Kusturica imitating Kusturica, are somewhat the same), watching the news reports, and going through wiki, I've gained no deeper understanding than "once Yugoslavia fell apart, every ethnicity wanted a chunck of land, and wanted it's land free of people from other ethnicity's).
Maybe in your land, everything was just like in the movies. Nobody (except for a few radicals) really wanted to fight, and it was all just a big tragic/absurd misunderstanding. I'm sorry, but that's not the way things work everywhere. Your lesson applies to Lebanon, quite a bit, but..
Israeli airstrike kills dozens...
