Uhh, no, that's not actually happening. Team Clinton has been losing caucuses to this sort of bullshit the entire race, and there are no stories about police being called to control the crowd at those caucuses because when Team Clinton got bent over and fucked by undemocratic bullshit they went home quietly - disappointed, but quietly. When Frank says Team Clinton is better behaved than Team Sanders, he is fucking right. Part of that is because Clinton is massively ahead and does not need our collective outrage in order to clinch the nomination, and part of that is that there is at least a vocal minority of Team Sanders that are genuinely fucking manchildren who cannot look at the race in the big picture and understand that nearly (but not quite) half the time they're the bad guys. Throwing massive fits if and only they lose means they are not the defenders of our democratic rights, but are in fact only interested in Sanders 2016!!1! by any means possible - the voters be damned.PhoneLobster wrote:And really that's been the narrative all along. The democratic primaries are messy, imperfect and sometimes a bit unfair. And every time the Sanders camp interacts with that Clinton supporters are screaming bloody murder and every time the Clinton camp does Clinton supporters are "Meh whatever, our guys are allowed to do that.".
Indeed, the few of these people I'm fucking stuck dealing with I have genuinely watched switch (from the start of the race to the finish) from bitching about superdelegates to telling me that the superdelegates need to give it to Sanders because he has better odds in the general. There is a faction in Team Sanders that are basically Fox News-tier Orwellian assholes.
Hey, fuck you. I have been pretty god damn honest and impartial. I am a Sanders supporter who is very angry at the race's undemocratic bullshit while acknowledging that there hasn't been anywhere near enough undemocratic bullshit to flip the race and ultimately voters are getting exactly what they asked for. And that means earlier in the thread I bitched about New York's draconian election laws, which excluded a bunch of would-be Sanders voters. And that means right now I'm bitching about a bunch of Sanders supporters throwing a fit at a caucus, because it's fucking hypocritical as shit. It's not only hypocritical in the broad scope that caucus hijinks have, on the whole, favored Sanders. It's hypocritical in the narrow scope that the only reason Team Sanders thought they would walk away with those delegates in the first place is because they undemocratically stole them at the Clark County convention last month in the same fucking state! Both teams fucked eachother by an equal amount in the same state one month apart. Last month, fucking crickets. This month, the hotel called the goddamn police on the convention. It's insane and disgusting.Grek wrote:I don't know who to trust here because everyone on both sides have lied out their asses on the forum in the past about what their candidate did or did not do. It seems like the Nevada convention was not rigged, but given that there are no unbiased sources on what happened, there's really no way for me to tell. So back for dismayed indifference wrt who wins the primary for me!
It's not a principled stand. It's "WAAAH MY GUY SHOULD BE WINNING MORE!"
Well, for one, the point is that most of the shit people are even bitching about was not at all worth bitching about (including you). There were more Hillarites than Bernites, so the Hillarites won the fucking procedural votes, they won the fucking delegates, and that's the fucking end of it. And the Bernites don't understand that because "we were booing so loud, how could we lose? They must have rigged it, like they rigged everything else!" The only point of contention that is remotely valid is that a number of Bernites were rendered ineligible because they were not members of the Democratic party. And that rule was probably on the books the entire fucking time, and just like a bunch of people who should have attended the convention just didn't fucking bother to show up, a bunch of the people who did attend probably didn't bother to do their due diligence or fill out the paperwork. Remember that bit where caucuses are disenfranchising as shit because they take considerably more work than filling out a ballot (and are also several steps of unbound representatives removed from the popular vote)? Yeah, there ya fuckin' go.Chamomile wrote:My skin only skin in this game is that I would really rather that Trump not get elected, so what I care about is that someone decided to play hardball for Nevada, and that whoever it is presumably wants Hillary Clinton to get elected, and I do not see how this helps Hillary Clinton get elected. Did someone really think those two delegates would be the pivot on which the primary would turn?
It's not at all clear that anyone involved in this process ever even "turned on" their rig-the-caucus machine. It's more accurate to say that the Bernites intercepted two delegates (because the Hillarites did not show up to the Clark County Convention), fumbled them (because this time the Bernites did not show up to the Nevada State Convention, and also a very very very very small fraction of them forgot to file a party registration), and their failure to carry those two delegates into the end zone made them so angry that they started crying foul at... everything, no matter how little sense it made. And the truth is they probably did it to themselves and no one actively fucked them over by abusing their control of the party proper. And the end result is the entirely inoffensive reversal of the Clark County Convention upset, giving us back the original projection derived from the raw popular vote.