The Gaming Den

I spent a long time trying to make this build work. I never managed to make one that wasn't:

Lame compared to a monk / druid.

Lame compared to a druid with a monk's belt.

Blow out of the water by polymorph magic.

Lame compared to a straight wizard - the extra spells provided more than enough juice.

I really REALLY thought it would be an awesome but the mechanics punish sorceres and monks, so taking both classes is just a double lesson in pain.

As I recall, the prereqs for Ascetic Mage are Improved Unarmed Strike and 2nd level arcane spells. Well, that's easy enough: just take the damn feats and drop the Monk level.

Then spend your money on a monk's belt to give yourself the AC bonus.

Or you could just be bizarre and go Monk 1/Sorcerer 4/Ur-priest 2/Mystic Theurge X ...

NineInchNall wrote:As I recall, the prereqs for Ascetic Mage are Improved Unarmed Strike and 2nd level arcane spells. Well, that's easy enough: just take the damn feats and drop the Monk level.

Then spend your money on a monk's belt to give yourself the AC bonus.

In Pathfinder the Monk's Robe (not belt) has been nerfed (no Wis to AC).

Because they thought the reason people didn't play Monks was because you could get their AC bonus with an item, not because the class is made of fail.

Boo.

Seriously, what do the Pathfinder guys have against characters not sucking?

It's still just a DC 20 UMD check to emulate being a Monk, and then the "No Wis to AC" restriction doesn't apply. That's just a nerf for people who use it without being a Monk. If you're going to run around being a Dread Necromancer who punches people, it's not even an issue.

-Username17

Technically, I think it's DC21, but whatevers. That's a good point. Use it as a Monk 1, and you still get the AC, depending on how it's worded.

Kaelik wrote:Technically, I think it's DC21, but whatevers. That's a good point. Use it as a Monk 1, and you still get the AC, depending on how it's worded.

The exact wording is that once per hour you can make a UMD check, and get an effective class level equal to your check result minus 20, with a minimum of zero. Then the belt itself makes you count as 5 levels higher, and the class gives you an AC bonus for every 4 levels. So with a 20 you count as a level 0 Monk and that boosts you to Monk 5 and you get Wisdom Bonus +1. With a 23, you count as a 3rd level Monk, +5 to 8, for Wisdom Bonus +2. A 27 gives you Wisdom + 3, a 31 gives you Wisdom +4, and a 35 gives you the maximum, which is Wisdom +5.

To add more stupid, each successful activation wears off in an hour, but it's a non-action to try or retry. And the only penalty for just trying over and over again is that if you make an attempt, and you roll a natural 1, and your total result is less than 20, you get locked out of the robe for 24 hours. So once you have a +19 or better on UMD, you are required to roll a d20 over and over again in zero time every hour until you get a 16+ and then you get your Wisdom Mod +5 to AC.

And yeah, anyone who can afford a Monk's Robe and shelled out for Ascetic Mage should have no problem fielding a +19 total UMD bonus.

-Username17

FrankTrollman wrote: The exact wording is that once per hour you can make a UMD check, and get an effective class level equal to your check result minus 20, with a minimum of zero.

Frank, I know that arguing with you is an exercise in futility (cf. your insistence that blade barriers can move despite the use of the word "immobile" in the spell description), but according to the rules for Use Magic Device you can emulate a class feature. "I am a monk" is not a class feature.

By the way, here's the relevant part of the Pathfinder Monk's Robe description:

"If the wearer has levels in monk, her AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the robe lets her make one additional stunning attack per day. If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk (although she does not add her Wisdom bonus to her AC)."

hogarth wrote:By the way, here's the relevant part of the Pathfinder Monk's Robe description:

"If the wearer has levels in monk, her AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the robe lets her make one additional stunning attack per day. If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk (although she does not add her Wisdom bonus to her AC)."

Christ, why not just say that it doesn't give Wisdom to AC? After all, pretty much any monk has that already.

The problem with taking a level of Monk is that punching people in the face is awesome at 1st-3rd level and blows when you hit 6th level. Your own plans are an example of how more and more class features and feats and spells get tossed down the drain to make "punching people in the face" a half-way viable action.

Just don't do it. Take your six levels of Sorcerer and just be awesome as a controller, and if you need some AC scheme you just take Arcane Armor Training and rock the magic mithril armor (I'm using the Beta doc, so correct me if that doesn't work). There is literally no amount of punching that outmatches the extra spells known, extra spells per level, and extra spell levels that an extra level of Sorcerer allows.

And I'll argue that Sorcerer can be just a good as a controller as a Wizard. The only issue is that you just need to pick your spells very very carefully, and you have to give up the idea of also being a versatile blaster and utility mage.

If you really need to punch people, how about just learning fist of stone? It'll let you punch people, without having to invest more than just a single spell known.

Another somewhat bizarre option would be to go psionic (boo hiss, I know). That way you can totally just wear some full plate (don't even bother with proficiency) and carry a tower shield. Eventually you spend your money on a defending weapon.

I mean, you don't make attack rolls, after all.

FrankTrollman wrote:The exact wording is that once per hour you can make a UMD check, and get an effective class level equal to your check result minus 20, with a minimum of zero. Then the belt itself makes you count as 5 levels higher, and the class gives you an AC bonus for every 4 levels. So with a 20 you count as a level 0 Monk and that boosts you to Monk 5 and you get Wisdom Bonus +1. With a 23, you count as a 3rd level Monk, +5 to 8, for Wisdom Bonus +2. A 27 gives you Wisdom + 3, a 31 gives you Wisdom +4, and a 35 gives you the maximum, which is Wisdom +5.

I meant the wording on the Monk's Robe item. Since there are ways to word it such that no one ever gets Wis to AC from it.

Something like:

"When Wearing this Robe, you gain a +1 Insight bonus to AC that stacks with the Monk's insight bonus, and you additionally progress 4 levels along the Monk unarmed damage chart."

Or something like that, because really, the belt just grants +1 insight to AC for Monks, and it really just grants +1 insight to characters wearing it and not using UMD in Pathfinder, so they could word the belt to suck even more ass.

@Rathe - Thanks for the suggestion, but i don't think my DM will go for it. btw MM rods kick ass fer sure, +1.

@Spasheridan -
1) monk/druids have been nerfed in PF (natural attacks not included in flurry)
2) i'm doing the same as druid with a monk's belt, except using Cha.
3) Polx been nerfed
4) Agreed. Except i'm sick of playing straight wizards.

So... the general consensus is - not?

@Rathe - Thanks for the suggestion, but i don't think my DM will go for it. btw MM rods kick ass fer sure, +1.

@Spasheridan -
1) monk/druids have been nerfed in PF (natural attacks not included in flurry)
2) i'm doing the same as druid with a monk's belt, except using Cha.
3) Polx been nerfed
4) Agreed. Except i'm sick of playing straight wizards.

So... the general consensus is - not?

NineInchNall wrote:Another somewhat bizarre option would be to go psionic (boo hiss, I know). That way you can totally just wear some full plate (don't even bother with proficiency) and carry a tower shield. Eventually you spend your money on a defending weapon.

I mean, you don't make attack rolls, after all.

Defending weapons are probably the last on the list of things you care about.

A mithril buckler has a +0 Spell Failure and the AC costs half of a Defending weapon after the cost of the mithril.

Then you'd hit your Deflection bonus and Natural Armor bonus.

It's a shame you don't have Frostburn available, since you could go with Full Plate and Tower Shields and rock the feat that lets you get no ASF when you use Blue Ice Armor.

Yeh, it's cuz i do stuff like that he's so strict. hahaha ;p

Yeh, it's cuz i do stuff like that he's so strict. hahaha ;p

Well, the only other caster/monk build I've ever seen work is a Cleric/Sacred Fist.
If you are stuck on casting Wizard spells, just choose an Archivist for your Divine Caster Side.
Just remember that text does trump table, so the Sacred Fist gains casting every level.

For the love of fuck, don't be a Sacred Fist unless you're talking about the one from Defenders of the Faith. And even then only do it if you have somebody backing your ass up with polymorph.