Help with Sorcerer/Monk build pls

[Tanis]

Hey, just writing a new character, thinking about taking Monk 1/Sorcerer X build. Gonna take Ascetic Mage feat. Any ideas for optimization?

Playing Pathfinder RPG. Allowed books are PathFinder Core plus 3.5 Completes, ToB, XPH.

Party includes rogue, cleric/crusader, fighter. 6th lvl party.

Stats:
Str - 10
Dex -16
Con -14
Wis -12
Int - 12
Cha -18

I'm still not 100% on this build. I'll either play a aasimar or elf (if i end up with a wizard) pumping my primary stat to 20 - headband of +4 with crafting will make it 24. Going 1 lvl of monk improves my AC by 8 and it keeps going. Is it worth it tho? My other consideration is a gish with (close to) max CL. Thoughts?

[Username17]

I'm still not 100% on this build. I'll either play a aasimar or elf (if i end up with a wizard) pumping my primary stat to 20 - headband of +4 with crafting will make it 24. Going 1 lvl of monk improves my AC by 8 and it keeps going. Is it worth it tho? My other consideration is a gish with (close to) max CL. Thoughts?

How do you get 8 AC out of a level of Monk? You appear to have a Wisdom of 12, which means that you'd get +1 AC out of that. Using the Ascetic Mage feat, which I guess you can use even though it's not Pathfinder and using the Completes in any manner completely ass rapes even the smallest nerfs that Pathfinder pretended to apply to spellcasters of any kind, then you can get your Charisma Bonus instead. But that has to wait until you get to 6th level, because you need to get to 2nd level spellcasting in Sorcerer before the feat gets unlocked.

In any case, at that point you're giving up 3rd level spells altogether in order to get your Charisma Bonus + Level Bonus, which appears to be +6 and +1 respectively. So that would be a total of +7. For which you are giving up your third level spell - which could have been Greater Fucking Mage Armoreven if you were being retarded.

-Username17

[Tanis]

I'm starting at 6th, Monk 1/ Sorcerer 5 - that's 2nd lvl spells no worries.
My Cha bns is +7, plus 1 for being monk lvl 6 effectively for AC. That's 8.

I know i'm giving up a CL, that's why i'm not completely sold on it. And GMArmor is +6, doesn't count against touch attacks, and runs out after 6 hrs.

[Grek]

If you want to be a gish, play a cleric. Or a druid.

[Tanis]

I don't necessarily, just tired of playing straight wizards. And we need a wizard i think.

[Username17]

Where do you get the Caster Level of 8 to make a +4 Charisma item? For that matter, where do you get the 32k it normally costs to buy such an item (that you normally only get at 8th level anyway)?

-Username17

[NineInchNall]

Then play a Beguiler or a Dread Necro, wear magic armor, and be done with it.

[Tanis]

Where do you get the Caster Level of 8 to make a +4 Charisma item? For that matter, where do you get the 32k it normally costs to buy such an item (that you normally only get at 8th level anyway)?

-Username17

k, good call. Missed that one, i'll have to wait a couple of lvls with +2 instead, but it's 16,000gp in PF - 8,000gp with crafting.

@NineInchNall - Beguiler's PHBII, not allowed. Where's Dread Necro? Sounds familiar.

[Leress]

I'm starting at 6th, Monk 1/ Sorcerer 5 - that's 2nd lvl spells no worries.
My Cha bns is +7, plus 1 for being monk lvl 6 effectively for AC. That's 8.

You forgot to add the base AC of 10 so it would be an AC of 18

[Tanis]

I'm starting at 6th, Monk 1/ Sorcerer 5 - that's 2nd lvl spells no worries.
My Cha bns is +7, plus 1 for being monk lvl 6 effectively for AC. That's 8.

You forgot to add the base AC of 10 so it would be an AC of 18

right...u serious? that's 101 man.

[ubernoob]

//

[Tanis]

To be honest, i've never played a spontaneous caster before, just thought i'd give it a try, are they that bad? And like i've said, the party really does need an arcanist.

[Quantumboost]

Sorcerers (and similar spontaneousers) in particular sacrifice one level of casting for half their levels, and several spell slots for the other half, for the benefit of not being able to change up their available spells (for things like permanency or animate dead which you are just not going to use outside of downtime, and shouldn't waste spells known slots on) and having more low-level slots.

Spontaneous casters like the Warmage, Beguiler, and Dread Necromancer are actually really well off, because they don't have limited spells known - they just cast off of their class lists, and for the Beguiler and Dread Necromancer those lists have a lot of really nice things. Warmages are the exception because... well... Evocation as a school sucks, aside from the occasional nice thing like Contingency, Wall of Force, or Forcecage. You can get nice things off domains with those classes as well via Arcane Disciple, if you don't mind relying on having Wisdom that isn't crap.

That said, a sorcerer is still a spellcaster who casts off the wizard list - it's actually at a reasonable point if you pick good spells known. They can also use scrolls, so it's not as if the rest of the Sor/Wis list is forever verboten to them.

[CatharzGodfoot]

Why are you playing a monk/sorcerer? Is it because you want to play some sort of arcane martial artist, or are you just trying to min/max?

Both routes are doable, but (as has already been said) neither is especially well served by taking a level of monk.

[Tanis]

min/max, mostly. trying to get a survivable arcanist that's something different to what i usually play.

figured high AC can't hurt for 1 lvl trade-off. haven't really seen too many alternatives (except for cleric and druid, which i can't play) unless they're a gish, and that's too much of a CL cost.

[Leress]

I'm starting at 6th, Monk 1/ Sorcerer 5 - that's 2nd lvl spells no worries.
My Cha bns is +7, plus 1 for being monk lvl 6 effectively for AC. That's 8.

You forgot to add the base AC of 10 so it would be an AC of 18

right...u serious? that's 101 man.

Sorry, read the post wrong.

[Tanis]

You forgot to add the base AC of 10 so it would be an AC of 18

right...u serious? that's 101 man.

Sorry, read the post wrong.

You're cool.

So... can someone tell me why it's so bad to take 1 lvl of monk for +AC?
If so, what's better (apart from a GOD mage-i'm so sick of that schtick)?

[Quantumboost]

You can get AC from other sources. Like greater mage armor. Having a level of Monk is only desirable under extremely rare circumstances. It's just not a good idea.

Do you want to play a spellcaster? I presume you do, since you're including sorcerer levels there. If so, what do you mean by "GOD mage", since that isn't even remotely a standard term, especially since it looks vaguely like it could mean "vaguely competent mage".

Why are clerics and druids off-limits to you?

If you don't want to play a spellcaster, well, you could roll up something from the Tome of Battle, such as a Warblade. Those should be more resilient against the warrior-type nerfs from Pathfinder.

[Tanis]

1) mage armor and gtr mage armor can still be used, and stack with monk bns.

2) God mage as in battlefield controller/strategist.

3) I want to be able to affect many foes at once while having the versatility of teleport, walls, etc.

4) What warrior nerfs?

[Murtak]

I want to be able to affect many foes at once while having the versatility of teleport, walls, etc.

Don't play a sorcerer then. You will want to have multiple battlefield control spells, a couple of save or dies, perhaps even the odd damaging evocation, your defensive self-buffs and transportation spells on top of that? With the sorcerer spells-known-progression? How? About the only way I know how to do that with a sorcerer is by having fun with shadow illusions, and that is a very specific build, which looks nothing like yours.

[RobbyPants]

Where's Dread Necro? Sounds familiar.

Heroes of Horror.

[hogarth]

Where do you get the Caster Level of 8 to make a +4 Charisma item?

Crafting works differently in Pathfinder. For instance, it's fairly trivial to ignore item prerequisites when crafting in Pathfinder (it's a +5 to the Spellcraft check DC needed). And it's debatable whether the caster level of a Headband of Charisma is a prerequisite in the first place.

[Rathe]

Okay, so you're looking for a monk-caster, well that is kinda...hard to do if we play the game using the usual suspects.

Instead, we go Swordsage from the Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords, take the "monk-like" AND "caster" adaptations. You'll lose light armour proficiency, HD will go from d8 to d6, but you'll gain Monk Unarmed Strike Progression and will exchange maneuvers for spells from the schools of abjuration, evocation, transmutation & conjuration (teleportation). Oh, I'd recommend exchanging Charisma for Intelligence for casting, but whatever.

As a level 6 Swordsage you'll have access to 11 known maneuver/spells, 6 of which you can use each battle (that refresh after one minute...you can cheese it with a feat and do it in one round) and 3 stances. Remember that at level 4, 6, 8 etc. you get to change out your old maneuvers/spells for new ones. You'll have the same BAB and UAS progression as a monk your level. Also, you have 6+Int skill points per level, play a bit of a skill monkey (if you go the Int route) or grab just monkey skills...tumble is a class skill btw.

As for survivability, you'll get the Monkish Wis to AC bonus, and you can have one of your spells just be Greater Mage Armour. In addition, you have D6 HD as opposed to D4. You're spells will refresh so just cast GMA and Blur each battle (you should already have had it up)...that leaves you with 4 spells to work with attacking or whatever.

For gear, get MM Rods like Chain, Twin & Quicken...Quicken is good. Extend doesn't do anything for you, as you can just think quietly for a minuite and refresh everything anyhow.

A typical workday involves you wandering around with perma Fly, GMA and Displacement. So when your group walks into a battle with a Mummy, a bunch of Wraiths and some Zombies, you pop off Twinned Scorching Rays (with a 2d6 bonus sneak attack from your Stance) and then just play around punching Zombies in the face.

[RobbyPants]

Wait. Are there DMs that actually use the caster sword sage adaptation? For that matter, are any of those DMs running Pathfinder?

[Rathe]

A couple...mainly those tired of seeing the Crowd Control Wizard, Melee Cleric and Druid Whatever always played. Some just liked it when I said "He will cast no Charms, Illusions or Clouds".

Seriously, just talk to the DM, spell out what theme you're going for, and establish a power level that everyone can play with. You don't have to break the game and nor should you have to jump through half a dozen hoops (not to mention books) and various rules interpretations to play something fun.

As for Pathfinder GM's....well, I sure don't know of any. Then again, that was because of the "why would I buy yet another book and relearn all the rules...I already don't like how many splats there are" mentality.