Gary Gygax in the twilight of his gaming career.

[Lago_AM3P]

Dude, are you like SURPRISED that Gary Gygax would oppose any expansion of the number of game systems out there?

Especially those which borrowed heavily from his original rulesset.

[Username17]

The surprising thing was not that Gygax opposed the creation of non-D&D rulesets. The surprising thing was that he opposed the creation of add-ons for D&D. From the beginning, he announced that if he didn't have final say on a rule, it shouldn't be in your game.

That is, he likened house rules to theft repeatedly and openly. "Rule Zero" was regarded by him as a personal attack unlessed he invoked it himself. I believe that he really would have resigned from TSR if the choice was an OGL. The concept of allowing people who weren't him to publish RPGs and receive income from their distribution has brought out vitriol from him since before I was alive.

-Username17

[erik]

That give and take between Gygax and Reynolds was great, Josh. Not much is more damning than when one flaunt's his own ignorance.

I know others have said it, but I gotta agree that I sure would have liked to see the game as Arneson had the greater control over development. Maybe I'd never have heard of D&D or roleplaying then, but maybe it would have been so much bigger and better. Oh well.

[User3]

I liked even more the whackjob who started berating SKR (1st of 3 pages I believe) but gave absolutely no concrete reasons why SKR was clueless. He just had blind faith in Gygax who apparently, is never ever wrong or has never ever slided.

[Neeek]

1111507240[/unixtime]]I liked even more the whackjob who started berating SKR (1st of 3 pages I believe) but gave absolutely no concrete reasons why SKR was clueless. He just had blind faith in Gygax who apparently, is never ever wrong or has never ever slided.

What was really funny was the flames someone put on SKR's own board(on the thread he posted on a message in the first page, Sean's rebuttal). Specifically, the factual mistakes of Gygax's role in the design of D&D.

[User3]

What was really funny was the flames someone put on SKR's own board(on the thread he posted on a message in the first page, Sean's rebuttal). Specifically, the factual mistakes of Gygax's role in the design of D&D.

Neeek, do you have a link for that thread?

I can't find it on Sean's message boards - and his search facility seems to be down.

thanks!

[Username17]

I think he's talking about This.

It's funny. I've called SKR a "no-talent-jackass" in print, and I stand by that assertion. I have no proof that he has ever written anything under any circumstances that wasn't buggy, sloppy, essentially incomprehensible, and inane.

But when it comes to wang waving contest between him and Gygax, I'll take his back. SKR is totally right on this one and Gygax is out in the shack smoking crack.

-Username17

[Draco_Argentum]

Sweet, Halaster Blackcloak made an ass of himself there too.

[MrWaeseL]

That's a really old thread, though.

(I thought I had read it before)

[Zherog]

1111568345[/unixtime]]Sweet, Halaster Blackcloak made an ass of himself there too.

That happens every time he opens his mouth (or types on his keyboard).

[User3]

1111546194[/unixtime]]I think he's talking about This.

It's funny. I've called SKR a "no-talent-jackass" in print, and I stand by that assertion. I have no proof that he has ever written anything under any circumstances that wasn't buggy, sloppy, essentially incomprehensible, and inane.

But when it comes to wang waving contest between him and Gygax, I'll take his back. SKR is totally right on this one and Gygax is out in the shack smoking crack.

-Username17

Just out of curiosity Frank - have you ever complimented any D&D authors or designers ...... ever? Not to my knowledge. I'd be curious if you actually hold in high regard any of the 1st Ed., 2nd Ed., or 3.E folks.

[Username17]

Oddly enough, the answer is yes.

I've complimented Monte Cook as an idea-guy. He has a lot of good ideas that are worth scavenging. I've also dissed his ability to write balanced material unsupervised.

I've complimented Jonathan Tweet. He does many cool things.

I keep waffling on Skip Williams. He's been involved with many groundbreaking projects, but every time he writes with his own voice he does so muffled by a shoe.

I've complimented Rich Redman on his openness to fans and willingness to share the design process, though rarely on the ultimate quality of books he has written. A considerable amount of the blame lands on the shoulders of Ed Stark for that.

-Username17

[User3]

I've complimented Jonathan Tweet. He does many cool things.

Geez ... has J.T. done anything lately besides co-author the 3.0 Core Rules? I like the guy too (on a personal level), but I don't think he's that active in the D&D world anymore.

I'll have to poke around the net some more to confirm that though ...

[Draco_Argentum]

Co-authoring 3.0 core is pretty decent as a claim to fame.

[Prak]

Jonathan Tweet also designed a couple of failed Collectible games for WotC, Hecatomb and Dreamblade. The failing seemed to be due to production costs rather than design.

(edited because I forgot people can't read my mind)

[Chamomile]

Man was it baffling seeing this thread on the first page. Gary Gygax in the twilight of his career? Really? Because I think at this stage he can be said to be well into the night. Wasn't entirely surprised to see it was a necro from years and years ago, but I can make neither head nor tail of what Prak actually responded with.

[shadzar]

aside from Oberoni calling Maj cun....ning hater, and Frank misunderstanding business concepts... what was the point of this thread, and why is it being resurrected?

From the beginning, he announced that if he didn't have final say on a rule, it shouldn't be in your game.

seems Frank hasn't learned much in the 8 years since that post he made on a few fronts. so he still hates TSR editions because of his misunderstanding of things.

[PhoneLobster]

Now I'm going to take a turn at the being confused as to who is responding to what game because...

Posted: 22 Mar 2005 06:45 am

Posted: 29 Jul 2013 10:28 am...
seems Frank hasn't learned much in the 3 years since that post he made...

...
..
.
...?

I mean... I know shadzar lives in the past, but REALLY?

[Guyr Adamantine]

Now I'm going to take a turn at the being confused as to who is responding to what game because...

Posted: 22 Mar 2005 06:45 am

Posted: 29 Jul 2013 10:28 am...
seems Frank hasn't learned much in the 3 years since that post he made...

...
..
.
...?

I mean... I know shadzar lives in the past, but REALLY?

Somebody give that man an internet.

[Prak]

Sorry, I fixed it. I was responding to the last question:

Geez ... has J.T. done anything lately besides co-author the 3.0 Core Rules? I like the guy too (on a personal level), but I don't think he's that active in the D&D world anymore.

Between my mention of Jonathan Tweet in the card game design thread, and Frank mentioning him in the NWoD: Judgement thread, I decided to look up what his rep on the Den was.

[shadzar]

haha, fuck you.

@Prak, tweet made a card game? Tweet was behind the MtG CMG?

[Prak]

No, he designed Hecatomb.

...though it's possible that he did some work on Magic at some point, I don't know off the top of my head.

[shadzar]

well Dreamblade was the WotC version of Chainmail/Mage Knight (later -Clix)/Warhammer using the MtG universe.....

well to answer the OP, i will say Gary loved games unto the very end, as D&D wasn't his only intent it jsut caught on bigger than the rest, he still wanted to make other games but D&D took up so much of his time. TSR did do many Tom Wham games and such, though they just never caught on, and the amount of work D&D took, probably drove him to RPGs and trying to finally, in a legal manner, present the RPG he wanted to present without outsider influence from those who didn't like games, or his game, etc. he was a creator and just trying to create his own personal piece of art.

[Prak]

well Dreamblade was the WotC version of Chainmail/Mage Knight (later -Clix)/Warhammer using the MtG universe...

Actually, the WotC version of Chainmail was Chainmail:


Dreamblade had nothing to do with MtG, or really even chainmail. It was more of a theme-cannibalisation of Hecatomb, wherein you fought other people in a mental dreamscape with weird horrific monsters:

I don't know, I played it like once. Because I was a Hecatomb player and we collectively, silently agreed to not support the game that we thought had destroyed our game.

[shadzar]

so in Dreamscape you summoned monsters to attack your opponent... sounds like MtG to me...and everyone else that laughed their asses off when they saw it. MtG the miniatures game.