Video Games

[Count Arioch the 28th]

That truly is heinous.

[Archmage Joda]

Yeah I did literally everything and it still doesn't work, and I hate it sooo fucking much, because Fallout 3 is much better than New Vegas.

So then, since I have Fallout 3 game of the year edition, does that mean I shouldn't bother getting new vegas?

[RelentlessImp]

It's a matter of opinion which is better. Fallout 3's main story is more epic in scope than New Vegas, and some people prefer the Wasteland be empty and devoid mostly of life with your only companion those you bring with you and a radio to enhance that post-apocalyptica feel, others prefer New Vegas's engine and worldbuilding, even if some of it - Caesar's Legion, for example - is stupid.

Personally, I'm with Kaelik on preferring Fallout 3, but New Vegas has a lot to recommend it if you want another romp through the Fallout-verse.

I'd say get New Vegas, and then have the best of both worlds through the power of modding, if you're on the PC.

[maglag]

In other news, Steam is now offering a refund policy where you can get your money back from a game no questions asked as long as you played it less than 2 hours.

Cue a lot of crappy indie developers crying in outrage that this isn't fair to them. Seemingly because a lot of their games last less than 2 hours.

I say good riddance. If your game can be completed in less than 2 hours, offers zero replay value, and didn't manage to impress me, then I want my money back thank you very much.

[Kaelik]

It's a matter of opinion which is better. Fallout 3's main story is more epic in scope than New Vegas, and some people prefer the Wasteland be empty and devoid mostly of life with your only companion those you bring with you and a radio to enhance that post-apocalyptica feel, others prefer New Vegas's engine and worldbuilding, even if some of it - Caesar's Legion, for example - is stupid.

Personally, I'm with Kaelik on preferring Fallout 3, but New Vegas has a lot to recommend it if you want another romp through the Fallout-verse.

I'd say get New Vegas, and then have the best of both worlds through the power of modding, if you're on the PC.

Ultimately for me, the New Vegas map felt really fucking lackluster literally everywhere I went. Like, 1) Most of the communities didn't even feel that post apocalyptic, and 2) There wasn't much besides communities of people.

Something like Megaton, or the Tower, or the Boat of people feels very post apocalyptic communities. Something like the School or the Ruins of Washington feel very post apocalyptic.

Everything in New Vegas feels like "200 years after the apocalypse, people are rebuilding" There are just cities full of people, and camps full of people, and City Camps full of people.

[karpik777]

Everything in New Vegas feels like "200 years after the apocalypse, people are rebuilding" There are just cities full of people, and camps full of people, and City Camps full of people.

Funnily enough, one of the problems with F3 is the game feels like the nuclear apocalypse was a recent event, and then tells us it happened 200 years earlier.

[Shrapnel]

Um... no it don't. The world has pretty clearly gone to shit for a very long time in FO3, and that is very effectively conveyed by the desolate, twisted and empty landscape.

New Vegas is the one that feels like it's closer to the Great War.

[karpik777]

Um... no it don't. The world has pretty clearly gone to shit for a very long time in FO3, and that is very effectively conveyed by the desolate, twisted and empty landscape.

Between the amount of non-spoiled food everywhere, the fact that so many places weren't yet looted (despite being relatively close to existing settlements - heck, some of the ruined buildings should have been dismantled over the two centuries and used as raw materials elsewhere), something like Little Lamplight still existing really make it feel like people came out of the vaults recently.

I'm not sure why would you say NV feels like being closer to the GW.

[Chamomile]

From the way he phrased it, it appears as though Shrapnel is under the impression that nuclear war takes a long time to destroy things, and that things being in an extremely advanced state of devastation and decay would imply that it was further from the war rather than closer. Normally I try to assume that people who've implied something very stupid probably just stumbled on delivery, but this is Shrapnel so I think he might actually be under the impression that nuclear wars require two hundred years to create desolate wastelands, rather than about twenty hours.

[Kaelik]

Um... no it don't. The world has pretty clearly gone to shit for a very long time in FO3, and that is very effectively conveyed by the desolate, twisted and empty landscape.

New Vegas is the one that feels like it's closer to the Great War.

Yeah, you are totally wrong.

Like, the city of New Vegas has been 100% repurposed into a completely new city.

The city of Washington is so bad that no one has even gathered the readily available scrap and used it to build new buildings. Because the entire population of the city lives on a boat in the harbor.

When you have a fucking Caesar legion made up force that has taken time to invent a command structure and society from scratch, that is definitely way further from the event of total nuclear wasteland than "there is a rich guy living in a tower offering shelter to other rich people."

[Stahlseele]

The most annoying thing i have to say about FNV:
It lacked the Weird Wasteland Perk and random crap.
F³ lacked the funny non interactive stuff of F1 and F².
But the Weird Wasteland Perk and some stuff was there.
FNV in my eyes takes itself way too seriously compared.
See also the Mothership DLC.
The most important thing that F³ had over FNV: LIBERTY PRIME!

[Longes]

The most annoying thing i have to say about FNV:
It lacked the Weird Wasteland Perk and random crap.
F³ lacked the funny non interactive stuff of F1 and F².
But the Weird Wasteland Perk and some stuff was there.
FNV in my eyes takes itself way too seriously compared.
See also the Mothership DLC.
The most important thing that F³ had over FNV: LIBERTY PRIME!

You are also completely wrong. FNV has the Weird Wasteland toggle at chargen.

[Stahlseele]

It does?
I don't remember that O.o
And if it does, what does it do?
I don't remember anything strange happening in FNV either . .

[Longes]

It does?
I don't remember that O.o
And if it does, what does it do?
I don't remember anything strange happening in FNV either . .

In fact Fallout 3 was the one that didn't have Weird Wasteland. In New Vegas weird wasteland adds the Indiana Jones fridge, an alien ship, and more.

[name_here]

Fallout New Vegas also had Old World Blues and all the madness within.

[Longes]

Fallout New Vegas also had Old World Blues and all the madness within.

Is that the one with brains in the jars?

[name_here]

Yes.

[Shady314]

Fallout 3's main story is more epic in scope than New Vegas,

Strange because to me New Vegas felt far more epic with a lot more on the line than F3 but I can see why giant robot screams epic to people. The outcome of your actions also felt a lot more epic to me whether crushing the Legate in a duel or having the General thrown from the Dam, a robot army at my back.

I could never even be bothered to finish F3. Still haven't. I stopped shortly before the last battle just not caring about the BOS or most of the Wasteland. Bethesda has the worst NPCs. And once I learned about the bullshit scripted death despite my companion being Fawkes the last remants of my interest were killed.

Caesar's Legion, for example - is stupid.

I'll take stupid, fun and new over Nazi'sre-used enclave vs. a re-used BOS.

F:NV is definitely the one that feels like time has passed which is nice since it is supposed to be a sequel to F1 and F2 rather than a shallow retread.

Ultimately F3 feels like a game set in the Fallout Universe like FO:Tactics but not like Fallout 3. To me.

[Shrapnel]

Gah. I have a hard time articulating my thoughts correctly. What I meant is that NV felt less-post-apocalyptic-y. Which, granted, is different from "amount of time passed". Whatever, I'll shut up. I don't feel like getting into a "which is better" argument.

[hyzmarca]

In other news, Steam is now offering a refund policy where you can get your money back from a game no questions asked as long as you played it less than 2 hours.

Cue a lot of crappy indie developers crying in outrage that this isn't fair to them. Seemingly because a lot of their games last less than 2 hours.

I say good riddance. If your game can be completed in less than 2 hours, offers zero replay value, and didn't manage to impress me, then I want my money back thank you very much.

You known when I was a kid we had games with less than two hours with of content that took years to beat. Super Mario Brothers? I got it when I was five, didn't beat it until I was 25. That's a twenty years worth of gameplay there.


Kids today are spoiled by their newfangled saves and continues.

Ninja Gaiden, now that was a game. Less than two hours worth of content, but three end bosses, each absurdly difficult, with no health refills between them, and you lose your special weapons after the first, and you get sent back three fucking stages if you die. Now that was a game.

Someone could hypothetically win it in less than two hours, if they were some sort of video game god.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Less than 2 hours of content. But that dam level. And it just gets more confusing from there. Not to mention you only have four lives, pizza is scarce and often requires spending massive amounts of HP to get to it. And most stages are mazes.

TMNT the Arcade Game? Fucking tigers.

Mike Tyson's Punch Out? Mike fucking Tyson. You'd have to be some sort of god to beat him in less than two hours, even with the password to get to him. It isn't a long fight, it's just Mike fucking Tyson is going to knock you out and bite your ear off.

I'm not even going to bother talking about Battletoads. It's Battletoads. Battletoads has a great first level. Are the other levels any good? Nope, they're horrible and glitchy. But it doesn't matter, because no one ever gets that far.

Oldskool developers know how to make very short games last for a very long time. Newschool ones don't.

[RelentlessImp]

Strange because to me New Vegas felt far more epic with a lot more on the line than F3 but I can see why giant robot screams epic to people.

Yeah, it wasn't Liberty Prime, it was "CLEAN, UNIRRADIATED WATER, BITCHES!" that made it more epic. Clean water that didn't have rads in it was a much more epic, in the classic sense of the word, goal than "Take over New Vegas for assholes/yourself (who might be an asshole)". Primarily because water having rads in it is a problem for everyone, and New Vegas, Caesar's Legion, Mr. House, the NCR, but mostly Vegas is a problem for a few hundred to a few thousand people, tops.

[Shady314]

Yeah, it wasn't Liberty Prime, it was "CLEAN, UNIRRADIATED WATER, BITCHES!" that made it more epic. Clean water that didn't have rads in it was a much more epic, in the classic sense of the word, goal than "Take over New Vegas for assholes/yourself (who might be an asshole)". Primarily because water having rads in it is a problem for everyone, and New Vegas, Caesar's Legion, Mr. House, the NCR, but mostly Vegas is a problem for a few hundred to a few thousand people, tops.

Just sounds like quibbling over the meaning of the word epic but that's pretty bullshit. The classic sense of the word applies equally as well to FNV. Epic has nothing to do with benevolence.

I don't consider it less epic that the player is given the freedom to be an asshole if he so chooses. I don't prefer the railroad of F3. I especially don't prefer the BOS as 100% good guys. That's really not true to the originals. I don't think the rise/fall of two possible superpowers (for the Wasteland) has an effect limited to a few hundred people. That's wildly disingenuous. The outcome affects at least California to Denver. Imagine if you could have decided whether the colonies won the Revolutionary War. We have no idea how far the effects could travel.

I guess I don't remember F3 that well. I didn't realize we were decontaminating all the water in the world. I thought it was a river. A 302 mile one yes but it will in the short term affect only a large geographical region. Just like FNV. I also really did not understand how the fuck that worked. How does the water remain clean when there are still contaminants in the runoff? Why does the game never show us water being so critical? We get told but how are there all these groups around then? Water doesn't seem to be that critical of an issue. I found clean water all over the place. Ludo-narrative dissonance does bother me.

So I could see F3 making you feel like more of a "good guy" and perhaps that is more epic to you but technobabble about cleaning up a river just doesn't feel as momentous to me.

I absolutely do realize the critical importance of clean water in the real world.

Out of curiosity have you played F2? Im just wondering if maybe defeating the Enclave who want to kill every impure creature in the wasteland and using the GECK to revitalize the land is less exciting to me the second time around but awesome for first timers.

[RelentlessImp]

The outcome affects at least California to Denver.

Does it? Because the impression I got from the way people talked in New Vegas was that it specifically only affected the Mojave Wasteland, or at least the part of it you're in. The NCR all give the impression that they just want to control this part of the world, but if not then they'll fuck off to control somewhere else. Caesar's Legion intend to use it as a staging point for more conquest, sure, but there's nothing special about New Vegas outside of the Securitrons. And Mr. House just wants New Vegas. It all gives the impression of being super localized with minimal effect on the rest of the world.

A 302 mile one yes but it will in the short term affect only a large geographical region.

This is kind of disingenuous. Water is life and civilization. Project Purity, despite being kind of small geographically, would be one of the only large sources of clean, drinkable water in the world. Its effect would be more akin to the effect the Nile had on emerging African civilization (i.e., having one).

Before Project Purity, people needed RadAway just to keep living after a couple of years drinking irradiated water. And there's a terribly large amount of RadAway (found in Vaults in large amounts, mostly, but also excess post-war materials), but it'll eventually run out.

The point about it being a small effect in the short term is valid - but it was on par with the first two games. The short term effects of Fallout 1 were: Vault 13 gets to keep living. The long-term effects were the human race not getting wiped out by super mutants and the Master, and Arroyo. Fallout 2's ending short term effects were peace and prosperity, long term effects were killing off another Enclave jackass and more FEV and a GECK getting used to make a livable place, about the same effect as Project Purity but requiring less time.

There's a point there about the end result basically being a retread of FO2, though. But it's still on a larger scale than New Vegas.

The points about the Brotherhood of Steel are valid, though. At least in the first couple of games they were about as morally gray as you could get, and assholes besides that would just as soon kill you and take your tech as look at you. Turning them into "Good Guys" was terrible, but explainable - splinter faction, etc etc. They sort of doubled down on it in New Vegas, which compounded the problem, though.

[PhoneLobster]

And if it does, what does it do?
I don't remember anything strange happening in FNV either . .

The reason you don't remember anything strange is because Wild Wasteland is a FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT.

Go through that link. Read the list. It's just bunch of scattered references to random fiction so lame you seriously won't even realise they are there. The ONLY one you will notice is the alien landing site, and it isn't worth it.

Because lets remember, Wild Wasteland costs you a fucking character build resource just so you can have some stupid god damn oblique name drops.

Arguably Wild Wasteland, through it's sheer audacity as to it's scale as a bait and switch and worthless trap option is very possibly the single worst design decision in Fall Out 3 AND FNV combined.

[maglag]

In other news, Steam is now offering a refund policy where you can get your money back from a game no questions asked as long as you played it less than 2 hours.

Cue a lot of crappy indie developers crying in outrage that this isn't fair to them. Seemingly because a lot of their games last less than 2 hours.

I say good riddance. If your game can be completed in less than 2 hours, offers zero replay value, and didn't manage to impress me, then I want my money back thank you very much.

You known when I was a kid we had games with less than two hours with of content that took years to beat. Super Mario Brothers? I got it when I was five, didn't beat it until I was 25. That's a twenty years worth of gameplay there.


Kids today are spoiled by their newfangled saves and continues.

Ninja Gaiden, now that was a game. Less than two hours worth of content, but three end bosses, each absurdly difficult, with no health refills between them, and you lose your special weapons after the first, and you get sent back three fucking stages if you die. Now that was a game.

Someone could hypothetically win it in less than two hours, if they were some sort of video game god.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Less than 2 hours of content. But that dam level. And it just gets more confusing from there. Not to mention you only have four lives, pizza is scarce and often requires spending massive amounts of HP to get to it. And most stages are mazes.

TMNT the Arcade Game? Fucking tigers.

Mike Tyson's Punch Out? Mike fucking Tyson. You'd have to be some sort of god to beat him in less than two hours, even with the password to get to him. It isn't a long fight, it's just Mike fucking Tyson is going to knock you out and bite your ear off.

I'm not even going to bother talking about Battletoads. It's Battletoads. Battletoads has a great first level. Are the other levels any good? Nope, they're horrible and glitchy. But it doesn't matter, because no one ever gets that far.

Oldskool developers know how to make very short games last for a very long time. Newschool ones don't.

Ok, bad choice of words on my side. I should've said "if your game can be beaten in less than 2 hours by someone picking it up for the first time".

Also the oldschool games often had stuff like multiple character choices and difficulty levels that offered great replay value.

I'm surprised you didn't mention any bullet hell games. Technically can be beaten in half an hour if that, but would provide a lot more hours of masochist suffering fun! Touhou rocks in that department.