Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

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Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

Post by josephbt »

Got my hands on the book a couple of days ago and read it. It hurt. Since I kinda like people at the Gaming Den, I decided to issue this public servise announcement.

The Good:

Next.


The Bad:


  • Chapter 1. – All about devils. Boring as Hell. Go watch paint peel and flake instead of reading this.
  • Chapter 2. – The Nine Hells. Planewalker More information for the measly cost of a click.
  • Chapter 4. – Devils. Critters, all devils. Could be worse. 2 monsters are Constructicons – they can form a biggass devil. All the others are reprints.



The Ugly:


  • Chapter 3. – you know how there's always a dumb supervillain in a group of supervillains? Well, if this booke were a supergroup, this chapter would be something akin to that villain. Only more retarded.
  • Hellbread – a race of dudes that repented too late so their souls yakkedy shmakkedy. Utter bullshit race. Racial crap: either +2CON, -2INT or +2CHA, -2CON. The first option gives you free crap Feats, the second one free darkvision. Impresive, no? Didn't think so.
  • Devil-touched feats: same cretenism as aberrant and abyssal feats.
  • Feats in general. Eg, Dilate Aura. Once per encouter, you can double the range of your aura. W00t, w00t. NOT. Honorable mention goes to Persistant Refusal(Divine). Spent a TU and a swift one to reroll a save against an ongoing effect. All other feats should be taken outside and shot.
  • Hellbraker PrC – take one shitload of feats, set them on fire, do the same with some skills, have some sneak dice and voila. You're it. You can steal and neutralize minor SLAs, hitch a ride on a teleport and cast planeshift once/day. All this in only 10lvls. In case you were wondering, you don't get full sneak dice.
  • Hellfire Warlock PrC – must be a 5th, 7th or 9th lvl warlock. Let me repeat that – you must be a warlock.
  • Hellreaver PrC – a melee class that beats up evil people. Unlike other such classes, it does it's job pretty well. I would place it in The Bad section, but it has so many weird mechanical problems that it really isn't playable out of the box. Mostly because it uses some of the Factotum mechanics.
  • Soulguard PrC – Clr6. Lose one caster level at 1st level. Gain nonabilities like Censor Devils. Stay away from it like a fighter from high levels.
  • Spells – mostly crap. Some Investiture of(erinyes, horned devil, ice devil) spells are killer spells because they stun or hold or daze. Honorable mention to Investiture of steel devil. It gives a +3 profane to AC and to hit.
  • Chapter 5. – The Lords of Nine Hells. The Archdukes themselves. CR19-27. None are level apropriate. AC in the low 30s, to hit in the low 40s, saves arround 15-25, ussually no mobility(Baalzebub has a move 20. At lvl 20.). 2 exceptions that can hold themselves against a lvl 20 party are Mephistopheles and Asmodeus.



The Hilarious:


  • One of the encounters on Avernus is a party of 4 lvl 4, fiendish kobold monks. AC19, Attack +3(d6), HP 21. This is supposed to be a CR9 encounter. Like the CR9 Monstruous Colossal Centipede or an 8-headed cryohydra. I don't think that the people that wrote this are playing the same game.
  • Quote: "Mephistopheles is a powerfull spellcaster. He employs evocation spells modified to violate his foes." No comment.



This book will make you wanna go to Hell for a good time. Stay the fvck away.
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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

Post by Judging__Eagle »

Hilarious.
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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

Post by Cielingcat »

It would be nice if it were more in depth, but I suppose it's not worth exposing yourself to that.
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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

Post by User3 »

You missed the really stupid stuff.

--Corruption! Cast Evil subtyped spells, and you go to hell when you die. So yes, summoning devils to fight for you in battle means you go to Hell. Whatever.

-Obeisance. Just like Corruption, but if you do enough Lawful acts you.....do something. It doesn't say, and since most of the "demonic location magic items" require corrupt feats or obeisant acts to maintain their effect on you, you might as well do the Lawful ones that seem to do nothing.

-Pacts! Sell your soul to devils and your character can gain feats or XP and will go to hell in the afterlife, which in DnD means exactly nothing since lots of people go to Hell anyway for not selling their souls. Heck, selling your sould is actually a service since oyu gain more power now and you know where your sould go in the afterlife, meaning you can get someone to pick you up or something.

-Pleasure Devils! Yes, every fiendish race has to have a female seducer because.... uhh... women are evil? What?

-Mark feats! Yes, I am going to play a devil with their stupid high LA. Why? The answer is: Mark of Nessus. As a devil owned by Asmodeus, people can't even cast spells on me before they make a will save. Awesome!

The other Mark feats are not as bad, but they are better than any other feat. Heck, if you have a Con of 24 and the Mark of Malborge you can fast heal at a rate of 2d6 + HD per round as a swift action for the rest of your life. How's that average healing of 17 at HD 10 feel?

-Superdemons! Take a look at the Legion Devil. Then put ten of these CR 3 baddies in a room and watch out for their +42 attack bonus. What's your AC at level 20?

---------------------
Basically, this is a book about devils as written by a Christian, which means its retarded (and I don't mean stupid retarded, I mean short yellow bus retarded). Once again its pushing Christian morality onto DnD, and doing it badly (BoED anyone?).
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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

Post by josephbt »

@Cielingcat

NP. Which details interest you?

@K

I did mention Legion devils(not by name). The Constructicons that make a Devastator.
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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

Post by Cielingcat »

The ones that inspire the most hatred and profanity.
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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

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I though christians were repelled by stuff like D&D and Harry Potter. Repelled the way vampires are with garlic and doctors are with apples. Did I spend all that money on crappy HP#5 for nothing?
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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

Post by MrWaeseL »

the_taken wrote:I though christians were repelled by stuff like D&D and Harry Potter.


Yes. All of them.
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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

Post by RandomCasualty »

Guest (Unregistered) at [unixtime wrote:1177620655[/unixtime]]
-Pleasure Devils! Yes, every fiendish race has to have a female seducer because.... uhh... women are evil? What?


Makes perfect sense to me.

I mean if I were considering an evil religion, my first question would be about what kind of sex I'd get from serving it.
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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

Post by User3 »

wrote:I though christians were repelled by stuff like D&D and Harry Potter. Repelled the way vampires are with garlic and doctors are with apples. Did I spend all that money on crappy HP#5 for nothing?


Read the bios on some of the web contributors. They make a big deal about how they are born-again Christians (which is the same as saying "crazy Christians"). I mean, this is your DnD bio.... how is that appropriate? Basically it means "I see even my DnD through the lens of my faith, and you guys are going to hell but not me because I'm exceptional and would you like to join my cult... errr... religion.... that I'm advertising."

I mean, I'm not saying that all Christians are crazy, just like I'm not saying that all Muslims strap bombs to themselves. I am saying that there's a stereotype for a reason.
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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

Post by User3 »

Guest (Unregistered) at [unixtime wrote:1177620655[/unixtime]]You missed the really stupid stuff.

--Corruption! Cast Evil subtyped spells, and you go to hell when you die. So yes, summoning devils to fight for you in battle means you go to Hell. Whatever.

OMFG I can't no longer twink using Lesser Planar Ally to bind devils... oh wait, I can still twink with Efreet, Angels and Demons. Phew. (Still, the mechanics could be generalized and something could, maybe, be done)
Guest (Unregistered) at [unixtime wrote:1177620655[/unixtime]]-Pacts! Sell your soul to devils and your character can gain feats or XP and will go to hell in the afterlife, which in DnD means exactly nothing since lots of people go to Hell anyway for not selling their souls. Heck, selling your sould is actually a service since oyu gain more power now and you know where your sould go in the afterlife, meaning you can get someone to pick you up or something.

But the character can't be raised if his/her soul was sold. At least this is restrictive to some degree. I am sure there are many ways around it, tho.
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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

Post by Judging__Eagle »

Guest (Unregistered) at [unixtime wrote:1177680519[/unixtime]]
Guest (Unregistered) at [unixtime wrote:1177620655[/unixtime]]You missed the really stupid stuff.

--Corruption! Cast Evil subtyped spells, and you go to hell when you die. So yes, summoning devils to fight for you in battle means you go to Hell. Whatever.

OMFG I can't no longer twink using Lesser Planar Ally to bind devils... oh wait, I can still twink with Efreet, Angels and Demons. Phew. (Still, the mechanics could be generalized and something could, maybe, be done)
Guest (Unregistered) at [unixtime wrote:1177620655[/unixtime]]-Pacts! Sell your soul to devils and your character can gain feats or XP and will go to hell in the afterlife, which in DnD means exactly nothing since lots of people go to Hell anyway for not selling their souls. Heck, selling your sould is actually a service since oyu gain more power now and you know where your sould go in the afterlife, meaning you can get someone to pick you up or something.

But the character can't be raised if his/her soul was sold. At least this is restrictive to some degree. I am sure there are many ways around it, tho.


Yeah, always wear a Thinaum ring or something.

That way your soul never leaves the material plane, screwing your devil masters out of your soul, unless you want to go to hell.
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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

Post by tzor »

the_taken at [unixtime wrote:1177626230[/unixtime]]I though christians were repelled by stuff like D&D and Harry Potter.


Except for Roman Catholics of course ... oh wait, Chick stated that we're not "chrisitans" so I guess the statement is true afterall. :razz:
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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

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OMFG I can't no longer twink using Lesser Planar Ally to bind devils... oh wait, I can still twink with Efreet, Angels and Demons. Phew. (Still, the mechanics could be generalized and something could, maybe, be done)


Crank up the stupid a bit more. According to the Corruption rules in FC2, if you cast [Evil] Subtyped Spells, you go to Hell. So if you use planar binding to pull up an Efreet, you go to Hell.

You can only get 9 Corruption points in your whole life before your soul goes specifically to th Nine Hells. And every time a Cleric of Erythnul cast lesser planar ally he gets a corruption point. Hell, every time a Cleric of Erythnul leads the yearly Murderous Feast in which he kills someone for entertainment in the middle of the great dinner - he gets seven Corruption points.

And when our Cleric of Erythnul dies, he fvcking goes to Baator where he will be tortured forever because he's a Cleic of an Abyssal God and an enemy in the Blood War.

----

My guess is that Robert Schwalb is too fvcking Christian to accept that D&D is a polytheistic setting with multiple sources of Evil. No, you cast Evil magic, you go to Hell! It doesn't matter if you actually draw your Evil power from Gehenna or Carceri, you go to Hell! That's what it says in the Bible, and that's good enough for me!

AAAAaaaaaargh!

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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

Post by JonSetanta »

OK THAT'S IT!
I'm making more fvcking devils and a new devil race or 3, no more of this Nine Hells and "Asmo"-crap....

Anyone have a program that makes stat-blocks for monsters easy? That's the hard part for me, all the math. :razz:
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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

Post by Count Arioch the 28th »

Guest (Unregistered) at [unixtime wrote:1177620655[/unixtime]]
-Pleasure Devils! Yes, every fiendish race has to have a female seducer because.... uhh... women are evil? What?


That's pretty much how I see it. At least, that's what my life experiences have told me.
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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

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Koumei wrote:I'm just glad that Jill Stein stayed true to her homeopathic principles by trying to win with .2% of the vote. She just hasn't diluted it enough!
Koumei wrote:I am disappointed in Santorum: he should carry his dead election campaign to term!
Just a heads up... Your post is pregnant... When you miss that many periods it's just a given.
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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

Post by Josh_Kablack »

Way to sabotage a valid argument there gang.

The quoted post violated WotC's code of conduct for both masked profanity and discussion of real life religion, pretty much assuring that any real debate or enlightenment towards the design intent will get shut down.

Next time, paraphrase to get the point across.

A simple question asking why corruption points always send you to a specific afterlife regardless of the existence of multiple evil afterlives in the default cosmology might have worked better here.
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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

Post by Draco_Argentum »

Yah, use your brains. Any twit can start a waste of time thread at WotC. Thats what you've got.

You can post like that here and its funny because thats what TDG does. Exact same post at WotC is not going to be anything useful, its just flame bait for people who don't share the sense of humor.
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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

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I was just showing what is happening.

Please don't shot the messenger.
Koumei wrote:I'm just glad that Jill Stein stayed true to her homeopathic principles by trying to win with .2% of the vote. She just hasn't diluted it enough!
Koumei wrote:I am disappointed in Santorum: he should carry his dead election campaign to term!
Just a heads up... Your post is pregnant... When you miss that many periods it's just a given.
I want him to tongue-punch my box.
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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

Post by Draco_Argentum »

Well yeah. Would you like me to start on you for not realising I was talking to JE?
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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

Post by User3 »

Yeh, the reason we have this board is because WotC gave up on serious discussion long ago.
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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

Post by MrWaeseL »

Leress wrote:Please don't shot the messenger.


HOW DO I SHOT MESSENGER
(sorry, I couldn't resist.)

Judging_Eagle, maybe you can still turn that thread around by closing it and starting a new one more along the lines of what josh posted.
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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

Post by Judging__Eagle »

Sorry, I'm just getting angry at the fact that if I want to add new and cool stuff to my game that involves fiends, I'm better off using Frank and K's Tome of Fiends; insted of buying some 30-40$ a book badly written supplements.

I didn't read the post after my last reply; it must have gotten pretty bad.

All that I was saying was that the authorship needed to distance it's real-world ideas from the fantasy ideas. If we want an internally consistant fantasy world at least, I'm not a big fan of the World of Darkness method of "world creation", I'm a huge fan of the Rifts "method" however.
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Re: Fiendish Codex 2 - A review

Post by User3 »

From a fluff perspective (ignoring mechanics for the moment), the Fiendish Codex I (Demons) is considered to be amongst one of the highest rated sourcebooks in regards to D&D fan satisfaction. When you go over to the forums where deities, monsters, planar cosmologies, etc. are discussed, those resident experts sit there and wax poetic about that book right and left.

The feelings about Fiendish Codex II (Devils) are on the opposite end of that spectrum. All the planar experts *hate* that book with a passon.

Does anybody know why?
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