Double Progressing Double Progressions

[shirak]

OK. There's a PrC in Races of Rabbit Fvcking called Arcane Hierophant. There is also a PrC in the DMG that's called Mystic Theurge. And this second PrC doesn't receive any love because it, well, sucks. But it might be useful in this thought experiment.

Take three levels of Wizard. Then three levels of Druid. Then a level of MyTh. You are now a level 7 character with 3rd level spells and you suck like a black hole. Take a level of ArHi.

Now, the very definition of an arcane spellcasting class is that it grants arcane spellcasting. MyTh does that. The very definition of a divine spellcasting class is that it grants divine spells. MyTh does that too. So when you take a level of ArHi you add a virtual level at MyTh for the purposes of determining spellcasting. And the you add another. And you keep on adding adding two levels of spellcasting per level for nine freaking levels. Which gives you a spellcasting level of 24 at level 18. Oh, did I mention Wildshaping as a 13th level Druid? No Elemental Wildshaping unfortunately but you can't have everything, neh?


OK, reality check. Is this possible?

[RandomCasualty]

Well no, technicalyl Mystic theurge isn't a "spellcasting class", since it has no base spellcasting. It instead grants you a virtual level in a spellcasting level from another class as a class ability. You can't therefore use another class to take Mystic theurge spellcasting, because it in fact has none.

[Username17]

Here's the kicker: MyTh doesn't give you Arcane Spellcasting or Divine Spellcasting. Every level of MyTh you take counts as taking a level of Wizard for purposes of spells known and spells per day and caster level and shit - but MyTh itself doesn't have a spell list.

So you can't layer True Necromancer or Arcane Hierophagus or whatever onto Mystic Theurge. If you must break the game (and who are we kidding: yu must) then you want to layer Mystic Theurge (or something similar) to a Catch-Up class like Ur Priest or Beholder Mage. Better yet, you want to apply it to two of them.

The Catch-up classes generally progress you through spell levels really fast and get spellcaster levels based on your total spellcasting levels in all classes - so if you double dip you get multiple access to level appropriate magic and huge piles of caster levels.

-Username17

[erik]

Also, 3 Wiz/3 Druid/1 MyTh does not qualify for Arcane Heirophant.
It only has +3 BAB and it requires +4 BAB.

Yes, that means the example character in RoRF is illegal.

[Brobdingnagian]

What if you use fractional BAB progression? It's something I've always been a fan of.

3 Wiz = 1.5
3 Druid = 2.25
1 MyTH = 0.5
Total = +4.25

Just a thought.

[erik]

Then yes, it would be ok.

It also works if you give Druids full BAB.
It also works if you give BAB=HD.
It also works if you give BAB=to total skill points.
You could also ask for the BAB req to be waived, or simply lowered to +3.


Anywho, more bad news on the Arcane Heirophant. Many DMs I've met rule that you only stack levels for wildshape if you have the ability to wildshape to begin with (ignoring the caveat made right after that clause in the PrC)... meaning that 5 Druid would be required to make those ends meet. I think they're smoking crack, but they're still out there... smoking their crack.

Also, I've talked with folks who have differing opinions as to whether the Companion Familiar counts as a Familiar for the purposes of stuff like Augment Familiar spells and other Familiar-targeted abilities. I have no problem with it, but it's worth checking with your DM.

Many of these problems come up more if it were in Living Greyhawk where you could play under a few dozen different DMs, each with different takes on rules. In LG this class is fraught with table variation.