A slightly unusual request for assistance with 4e

[Amra]

The scenario: it's GenCon UK, and I - as part of a mediaeval re-enactment group - am teaching people to shoot real longbows, wear real platemail and all that jazz. I also have to run a "dungeon" (to whit, a load of five-foot squares marked out with ropes on the ground with camo netting for walls and a gaggle of Con volunteers to act as NPC's) containing a bunch of encounters.

Last year, I did it spontaneously for the lulz and because, well, I'd always wondered whether it would be possible to have a fight with longswords in five-foot squares. I used 3.5 rules and got to illustrate at length to Bruce Cordell exactly why a Lemure is not a level-appropriate encounter for a 1st-level party.

At length.

In front of everyone. 8)

It was rather popular and as such is an advertised feature of the Con this year as opposed to some random shit I make up on the spot; thus I've got to do a rather better job of it.

A member of our group has perhaps unwisely committed us to doing this using 4th Edition, which is how come I've ended up with a freebie set of books to peruse.

Apparently, although nobody went so far as to ask me whether this would work: "Individuals can try out the course against the clock or groups of four can battle other groups for points. The winners in either category will be presented with an engraved shield. "

Argh.

On average, I have one - count them - evening a week free in which to a) read and learn the 4e rules well enough to run a game, by-the-book, with nothing but a few notes, b) create pre-generated characters that are feasible to play without a huge special-effects budget, c) design encounters that can be played out 'for real' and d) do all the printing and shit for myself, any NPC's who are involved and the players.

I could really use some help with all this.

The only way I can see for two groups to "battle against" each other is in a race-type situation where they're vying to get the treasure at the centre of a radially-symmetrical dungeon first. I don't have the first clue whether or not it's feasible for an individual to try to solo a 1st-level dungeon because I've had the books for four days and have seriously only had the chance to skim-read a few paragraphs.

This is going to take place outdoors, in uncertain weather - could be blazing hot or bucketing down - by people wearing real mediaeval stuff, which weighs a lot. Now the scene has been set, here's what I'm asking for help with:

1) Pregenerated character concepts with "unshowy" powers that can reasonably be represented in this situation and without breaking the concept.
2) Encounter ideas, with specific creatures mentioned so's I know what to look up.
3) Any general ideas you might have about how to run such a thing and make it fun and interesting for people whilst making it *obviously* 4e.

Of course some WoTC game designers will be there, and they've pretty much got to take part for the look of the thing. And it would be nice to make it "special" for them when they join in. And of course there may be some *specific* encounters that ought to be included just to illustrate anything that needed pointing out about the system. And there'd be nothing stopping you PM'ing me about such things if they occurred to you.

I'm just saying, is all.

Sincere thanks in advance for any advice you can offer. I will of course report on anything you guys give me that gets played out live


EDIT: It occurs that this post probably ought to be In The Trenches... fbmf?

[Koumei]

Well, almost every ability is just [W] + stat damage + X squares of push-back.

So that's pretty easy to handle. In fact, it might also point out "It's all the same power." to the creators.

Make sure to include something with loads of hit points, as a reminder that combat takes too goddamn long. For added effect, ring a little bell at half time and have someone offer lemonade and biscuits.

[Amra]

Oh my... I LOVE the half-time idea. Some variation on that is definitely going to happen

I'm more worried about using one of the abilities that is an exception to that general rule, and am concerned that I'll do so without realising. I'm hoping people will warn me about any big beartraps I could step into from the perspective of including things that'll completely disrupt a live-action situation like this.

Koumei, can you think of anything of the appropriate CR that has a large number of hit points?

[Koumei]

Level 1: The one with the most HP seems to be the Dire Rat, with 38 (get someone to wear a crappy mouse mask? Bonus points for a Mickey Mouse mask.) It's a Brute, so there'd be a group of them.
Level 2: Guard Drake with 48 HP (Brute)
Level 3: Young White Dragon with 200 HP! (Solo Brute - Large. Chinese dragon costume?)

That's actually the best for a while. But I assume it's a level 1 game. So that young white would seriously tear the party apart, most likely.

[Jacob_Orlove]

You could give every Minion a balloon--when it pops, they go down.

If you want to avoid "flashy" powers, stick to the Martial characters: Fighter, Rogue, Ranger, Warlord. Anything with a Divine or Arcane power source is going to require special effects.

[Username17]

If you give people Beat Clerics, it won't need anything particularly flashy.

Regardless, 1st level characters can't "do" anything. I suggest giving everyone a 3rd level character. That way you can seriously bring out the 3rd level White Dragon and watch everyone grind on it. Put up the time as they drag on and on, so really drive the fucking point home.

At this level, each character has exactly 2 attacks that they can do over and over again; 2 attacks that they can do once per fight; 1 super secret special attack that they can do once during the entire scenario; and one other thing.

So for example, our Sword and Shield fighter can at-will:

• Swing his sword and if he hits do piddling (but minion killing) damage to another adjacent foe.
• Swing his sword and push his opponent with his shield so that they bounce around for a few 5' squares (be sure to have opponents physically walk back all 15 feet or whatever).

Now, every separate encounter they can do each of the following once:

• Swing his sword and knock his opponent prone.
• Swing his sword with a +4 bonus to-hit.

And once during the entire scenario he can:

• Swing his sword and do 2d8 extra damage. If he misses with this attack it isn't used up.
• Give himself 2d6+Con modifier temporary hit points until the end of the encounter as a Minor action.

And that's it. All his attacks are Strength Bonus +5 (+1 level, +1 Magic Sword, +3 Sword Proficiency) on the attack roll vs. the AC defense; and all the damage checks are d8 + Strength Mod + 1. One of his super attacks is +4 to-hit, one of his super attacks is +2d8 damage, and that's literally all there is.

The other martial characters are slightly more complex, but as a rule basically all attacks are a d20 + a very similar number and trying to hit a defense which is pretty much interchangeable with any other. And then when they hit, they do a pretty similar amount of damage and do a very minor effect that doesn't make much difference.

-Username17

[Kaelik]

Actually, I would recomend that you could have the following pre-gen characters:

1) An Archer Ranger
2) A Fighter
3) A Beat down Cleric
4) A Lazer Cleric, you should literally buy a laser here and have him shine it for attacks.
5) A Wizard who declares a square to be knifed, or tosses an Orange ball at a square or something, Or throws Ice.
6) A Rogue.

Basically, I recommend working in a laser cleric for the hilarity, a Wizard because he is the only "Controller" currently, and then a martial defender, and a ranged and melee martial striker. The Beat down Cleric can facilitate.

Make them all level 3 like Frank said, you still have fewer options then a level 1 Wizard in 3.5, and then you should have them face a series of enemies:

Encounter 1: Some random collection of stuff
Encounter 2: Same as above, but add minions this time with the balloon idea.
Encounter 3: Another Fight like the first.
Encounter 4: The Dragon. And make sure that they really grind on that thing forever. That's how the game works.

Make sure that the Wizard uses sleep, so they can see how pathetic it is that people just wake up one round later. And absolutely have them be "pushed" back and then walk the 15ft forward, since it really doesn't matter.

[CatharzGodfoot]

4) A Lazer Cleric, you should literally buy a laser here and have him shine it for attacks.

LED flashlight. That would be epic.

[Edit] And please, don't make it too painful. Even if you're going to make a point you don't have to take it out on the players; they're there to have fun.

Also, to use only the absolute worst offenders of the monsters would be a bit disingenuous.

[Kaelik]

4) A Lazer Cleric, you should literally buy a laser here and have him shine it for attacks.

LED flashlight. That would be epic.

[Edit] And please, don't make it too painful. Even if you're going to make a point you don't have to take it out on the players; they're there to have fun.

Also, to use only the absolute worst offenders of the monsters would be a bit disingenuous.

Well I wasn't advocating just using the worst, just pick any old stuff, maybe make it thematic for 3 of the four, but throw in the white dragon, because at least one fourth of all encounters (okay, all of them after level 10) are going to come down to grinding at wills for 10-20 rounds.

[Fwib]

4) A Lazer Cleric, you should literally buy a laser here and have him shine it for attacks.

LED flashlight. That would be epic.

[Edit] And please, don't make it too painful. Even if you're going to make a point you don't have to take it out on the players; they're there to have fun.

Also, to use only the absolute worst offenders of the monsters would be a bit disingenuous.

Wind-up LED Flashlight - you don't want it running out of power.

[Maxus]

I have a friend in something called Amtgard. They do a lot like this, but when they run a big monster, they make it up out of several people to get it to cover about the right size. So, yeah, get a sheet or something.

On the other hand, if you have a friend with more free time than you have who's RPG literate, get them to be your back up.

Are you going to do initiative turn-based, or real-time?

[Calibron]

Maybe have the first three fights be Kobolds and classic Kobold allies like dire weasels, to induce some thematic consistency. If you're adding any kind of plot to it, the first fight could be a Kobold raiding party coming to the human(or whatever) village to steal stuff, the second be the volunteers busting up the Kobold war camp, the thrid breaking through t lair proper, and the final being the PCs flailing away at the white dragon boss for two and a half hours.

This way the game seems like you tried to make it cohesive and fun, but the 4th edition mechanics are just so completely horrible that no fun could possibly be had.

[Psychic Robot]

The amount of cruelty in this thread makes me smile.

[Ravengm]

I'd like to see someone play a Tron paladin, full getup and all.

[Jerry]

The amount of cruelty in this thread makes me smile.

You guys obviously have never been to No Mutants Allowed. They pretty much despise anybody who likes Fallout 3.

[Jerry]

The amount of cruelty in this thread makes me smile.

You have obviously never been to No Mutants Allowed. They pretty much despise anybody who likes Fallout 3.

[Username17]

The amount of cruelty in this thread makes me smile.

You have obviously never been to No Mutants Allowed. They pretty much despise anybody who likes Fallout 3.

Weird. Fallout 3 isn't out yet or finalized. So I'm not really sure how anyone could have strong opinions on it yet. Fallout Tactics had some cool stuff in it but it was buggy as hell. Fallout 2 was one of the best things that ever happened on any computer system ever.

In any case, you could go far with a Tron Paladin by giving them either a Maglite or a plastic Lightsaber. Require them to turn it on every time they make a "Radiant" attack. Since their "Holy Strike" (the one that does Wisdom Modifier in extra damage) is Radiant they'll be doing it constantly. And of course, you should cover their platemail with bendy neon glowstick.

The Tron Paladin has the following abilities:

At Will:

• Turn on flashlight and inflict +Wisdom Modifier with Sword swing.
• Don't turn on Flashlight but get a +1 bonus to-hit for each enemy next to them.

Once per Encounter:

• Turn on Flashlight to do + Wisdom Modifier and +d8 damage. Holy shit yo!
• Don't turn on flashlight and attack two adjacent enemies. They get marked until the end of your next turn (this is annoying book keeping, but whatever).

Once during the scenario they can:

• Not turn on the flashlight and inflict an extra 2d8 damage and allow a compatriot to use a Healing Surge.
• Redirect an attack that hits an adjacent compatriot to hitting them instead.

In addition, a Paladin can spend a Minor action to mark a foe, to give himself his Strength bonus on damage for his next attack this turn, or to allow a friend to make a Saving Throw out of turn. These last two can only be used once per encounter, so that's kind of complex. If a marked creature doesn't attack the Paladin, they suffer 3 points of damage. Whatever.

-Username17

[Amra]

Thanks so much for all the useful stuff here guys; it's really helping. One problem I have is that I don't know how familiar most of the participants will be with 4e rules so I was going to stick to 1st-level characters to keep it simple.

That said, from the looks of things it doesn't make an awful lot of difference if they're 3rd level rather than 1st...

The cruel is fine if it demonstrates the stupid; I'd actually quite like to have one set of encounters for the people who are paying to play and have fun, and one set for the VIP's. Disingenuous perhaps, but if it's illustrative of what will happen at high levels I think it's a worthy exercise.

LED flashlights - check.
Plastic Lightsabres - check.
White Dragon - check.
Plate of lemons for half-time - check.
Paramedics standing by with resuscitation equipment for when people pass out having swung a longsword 497 times - check.

Keep 'em coming folks - and if anyone feels like suggesting specific sets of powers to be chosen for one or more characters, that'd be extremely useful. I'd prefer "easy to run" over "optimised" any day of the week.

And I will most certainly be making people actually move around however many five-foot squares are required - but bear in mind we won't have a huge grid to play with!

[Jerry]

Weird. Fallout 3 isn't out yet or finalized. So I'm not really sure how anyone could have strong opinions on it yet.

People still complain about "The End Times," which has yet to happen.

People find a reason, any reason, to bitch, whine, and moan.

[MartinHarper]

How about having the regular folks be level 1, and the VIPs (because they're so very important) be level 30. Then select the powers so that the level 30 characters are doing, as much as possible, precisely the same thing as the level 1 folks, just with bigger numbers.

For bonus points, set up the battles side by side, and have a level 1 guy copy everything the level 30 guy does, except of course he finishes his monster sooner because of hp inflation.

[Username17]

Level 30 is a bad idea, because 30th level characters get the ability to endlessly recycle their at-wills, meaning that they can literally permanently stunlock an enemy indefinitely. Forcecage every round FTW. Or Confusion. Either way. I don't even care.

-Username17

[name_here]

Have a final competition of the VIPs vs. the normal people. Report the results.

There will either be movement to 4e or much laughter.

[Maxus]

Have a final competition of the VIPs vs. the normal people. Report the results.

There will either be movement to 4e or much laughter.

Ooh, I like it!

Edit: Actually, if you had time, you could put together two level 3 parties of four or five people (mixing up the character classes) and have them go Player-on-Player at the end of it. VIPs versus normal people.

Give people some 'costumes' so they can get into character (and so onlookers can keep track of who's who), like devil-horns for any tieflings, pointed paper ears for the elves (only one pointed ear for half-elves, OotS-style), fake beard for any dwarves, something reptilian for a Dragonborn, and so on. Print out a character summary to post for the onlookers. If you were really dedicated, you'd make printouts of the character sheets so onlookers could take a copy.

At the end of it, come out and "knight" them to fourth level. Do the shoulder-taps with the sword and all. Be formal.

It goes without saying that all characters concerned should be the optimized race/class mix, with the optimal selection of powers (Heh, can't say that with a straight face).

[Amra]

High-level characters - for anyone - are right out because I simply don't have time to learn the game to that extent in advance. Plus, of course, the more options players have, the longer they're going to take to make their minds up what they're doing and the longer each live-action scenario is going to take to pan out.

However, there *is* a competition running so I've got every excuse to report the results; and I think it's only fair that the VIP's - who have had much greater exposure to the game - have to play at, say, 3rd level whilst everyone else plays 1st.

For the record, I'm expecting "much laughter" to be precisely the result we get

[Koumei]

I hope there is indeed a lot of laughter. As long as all of the lame things about 4E just become a joke for everyone, they'll all smile back on it, and the pointed lesson can just help make the con a success.

Definitely make the ViPs do level 3, if only for the bullshit White Dragon with its huge pile of HP - I mean, seriously, you don't see that many again until level 7 or 8.

Knighting everyone to the next level at the end would be pretty cool.