An Offense of the Most Grievous Kind

Aktariel · Post by **Aktariel** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:54 am

Or the sincerest form of flattery.

Donald Senchuck, known to some perhaps as Otto the Bugbear, has been doing some... rewrites of 3rd edition, mostly class although some system. You can find them at www.dsenchuk.googlepages.com.

But what really caught my eye was in the feats section. Sure, the guy has [Combat] feats. Sure, they scale to BAB, with different levels based on your BAB. Sure, this couldn't really be a rip-off.

But then the feat Zen Archery caught my eye. More specifically, it's flavor text. Anyone want to guess what it was? Sure! "You're very calm about shooting people in the face. That's a good place to be." Don't believe me? Check for yourself.
http://dsenchuk.googlepages.com/feats%2Cpart2

Not only that, but the Blitz feat is there with some of the same abilities. So is Combat School. So are others. Word for word.

"First, name your fighting style (such as “Hammer and Anvil Technique” or “Crescent Moon Style”, or “Way of the Lightning Mace”). This fighting style only works with a small list of melee weapons – one of which must be from the weapon group you chose with Weapon Focus – that you have to describe the connectedness to the DM in a half-way believable way."

That's from his page. Not here.

Murderous Intent. With identical flavor. Command. Elusive Target. Great Fortitude. Blind-Fighting.

All of the "Advanced Combat Options" from the Tomes (Grappling, Power Attack, Expertise..) are there as well. Word for word. No acknowledgement that I could find.

Now the question I have is, is Frank leading a double life as Donald? Or did this guy start ripping things almost whole cloth from the Tomes, with no acknowledgement?

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:00 am

Hahaha, just look at Fighter and Knight. Some serious copypasta (I think that's what the kids are calling plagiarism nowadays) going on there.

Leress · Post by **Leress** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:23 am

Old...

Most already knew about this fighter rewrite was just Frank and K's fighter that go hit with a nerf bat.

I have no respect for Otto for doing that, all it is it just other people's work and a sprinkle of his own.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:52 am

According to the main site, he's claiming the original material as his Product Identity.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:53 am

Okay, that's not good.

So what do we do? I vote we go 'round to his house and break his windows.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:09 am

A lot of the stuff that aren't Tome rip-offs are Iron Heroes rip-offs. Damn, he even ripped off the names and stats of the Tome armors (without including the scaling bonuses).

I'm honestly not sure what 'original material' he might be referring to.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:41 am

angelfromanotherpin wrote:A lot of the stuff that aren't Tome rip-offs are Iron Heroes rip-offs. Damn, he even ripped off the names and stats of the Tome armors (without including the scaling bonuses).

I'm honestly not sure what 'original material' he might be referring to.

More seriously, we could ask him to give credit where it's due. I'm fine with the propagation of Tome Material, really. It's why I went through the trouble of putting them on the DnD Wiki.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:47 am

In case you are wondering: neither K nor myself are this Otto fellow.

-Username17

norms29 · Post by **norms29** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:00 am

Well, I still think one of us (I call "not it") should go and bust his windows for plagerism.

Amra · Post by **Amra** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:04 am

"All original material is Product License and Copyright 2007, Donald Senchuk

All other material is Open Game Content."

He's claiming copyright over other people's works. That is a very bad thing indeed. I wouldn't go ahead and do this without F & K's permission, but my vote is to start with an e-mail campaign to the thieving S.O.B. Thoughts?

norms29 · Post by **norms29** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:16 am

that does sound more reasonable the that thing I said

Draco_Argentum · Post by **Draco_Argentum** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:24 am

"The following portions of this work are protected under the Open game License found below: All portions of any text found in the D20 System Reference Document. Parts of these portions originate from the D20 System Reference Document and are Copywrite 2000-2003, Wizards of the Coast. The remainder of these portions are hereby added to Open Game Content and if so used, should bear the COPYRIGHT NOTICE "Cragore, copywrite 2007 by Donald Senchuk"

Theres the actual legal bit on the main page's opener. What hes doing is adding other people's work to OGC.

Absentminded_Wizard · Post by **Absentminded_Wizard** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:46 am

Even if he's making it all OGC, he's still claiming other people's text as part of his copyright, and that's not cool at all.

K · Post by K » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:23 am

I'd be worried, but his stuff is shit.

Judging__Eagle · Post by **Judging__Eagle** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:10 pm

I just skimmed the site and noticed this gem:

Still Suit: Crafted by gnomes, this suit of armor has a reduced spell failure chance and allows you to use the Still Spell metamagic feat spontaneously without increasing the casting time of your spell to 1 full round.

It seems that he doesn't know why Frank or K tied Still Suits with the Survival skill:

Still Suit:

Survival Ranks Benefit
4: You do not have to make checks to avoid Heat Exhaustion and Heat Stroke.
8: You have Fire Resistance 5.
13: You do not have to drink.
18: You are immune to Fire.

Probably b/c Otto never heard of Dune.

Amra · Post by **Amra** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:48 pm

K wrote:I'd be worried, but his stuff is shit.

And the stuff that *isn't* belongs to other people. I'm not sure whether it irks me more that:

a) people reading through might think that his other stuff must be meritorious-by-association in a way they can't _quite_ make out

or,

b) people reading through might think that the good stuff is shit-by-association in a way they can't bring themselves to make out

But I suppose that if you and Frank aren't bothered, there's no call for anyone else to get outraged on your behalf; after all, it's your work and sense of humour the mendacious bastard is passing off as his own.

I guess we're just projecting; I know I'd be livid if it was me he was ripping off!

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:47 pm

I'm sure it's just an honest mistake...

ubernoob · Post by **ubernoob** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:10 pm

Judging__Eagle wrote:Probably b/c Otto never heard of Dune.

That should be illegal.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:16 pm

ubernoob wrote:
Judging__Eagle wrote:Probably b/c Otto never heard of Dune.
That should be illegal.

yeah, I've at least heard of Dune... didn't know the link because I've never read/seen Dune.

JonSetanta · Post by **JonSetanta** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:00 pm

K wrote:I'd be worried, but his stuff is shit.

Ouch. I remember his actual, original content from The Wiz, too.

This is a creepy situation but I wouldn't get too concerned (beyond harassing the fuck out of him) until he tries to sell Tome material.

ubernoob · Post by **ubernoob** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:09 pm

Prak_Anima wrote:
ubernoob wrote:
Judging__Eagle wrote:Probably b/c Otto never heard of Dune.
That should be illegal.
yeah, I've at least heard of Dune... didn't know the link because I've never read/seen Dune.

Ever hear of a poster by the handle of Tleilaxu Ghola? Big math guy that did a bunch of TO stuff at WotC. He made me read Dune. I'm glad he did.

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:12 am

I remember that guy (Tleilaxu). Made a thread about playing a psionic sandwich that was a good laugh (and legal).

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:05 am

Ah, the psychic sandwich...

I'm sure I remember Otto for some shit on the old WotC boards. What was he best known for?

Aktariel · Post by **Aktariel** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:49 am

Otto was the dude who tried to be the voice of reason. Well, one of them. He's around on the Wiz Boards still.

Also, there was a bit going on when he posted "his" stuff to the boards (all of the rewrites that aren't Frank and K's), and then later pulled it because he remembered that everything posted on the Wizards Boards was fair game for WoTC to resell as their own.

Ironic, really.

Also, he even rips some of F&K's stuff off blatantly on the front page. (The bit about multiclassing).

If neither Frank nor Keith want to get affronted, I suppose we should let this lie.

But it seems such a shame to do so.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:54 am

We should keep an eye on him. If he really tries to officially copyright it, that's when I'm going to get pissed, even if Frank and K don't.