True20

[Ravengm]

So, I picked up a copy of True20 the other day, and so far I like the changes made from the base d20 system. I'm curious as to whether or not anyone here has seen or heard of the system, so I'll list a few things I like about it:

1.) You have access to basically any spell you want right from level 1. There are a few that require a specific number of skill ranks (such as ranks in heal for Resurrection), but most have no prerequisites. That isn't to say that you're very good with the spells; just that you have access. You won't be able to reliably create a roaring wall of fire at level 1 (but it is possible), but you can, for instance, singe someone with flame.

2.) The fatigue-for-casting system. You can cast any one of your spells at any time, but you have to make a Fatigue check for most powers. If you fail the check, you suffer a level of fatigue (-1 to Str and Dex for each level, can't run or charge, and after the fourth fail you're unconscious).

3.) Skill folding. For instance, Listen and Spot were folded into Notice, and Hide/Move Silently is now Stealth. For the most part, most of the skills were kept, but Profession is gone (thankfully).

4.) Attributes are on a -5 to +5 system, much like simply using the bonus in d20. Characters can't inherently raise their stats above +5, limiting the upper cap.

5.) The Toughness saving throw system. Instead of hit points, you make a special saving throw against the damage bonus of an attack. Depending on how much you fail by, you suffer a damage condition, with varying degrees of severity (very TNE-ish).

6.) No character classes. Instead, you have a basic system (the adept, the expert and the warrior), or a way to customize. You customize by getting a certain amount of customization points, and can decide your own class's combat progression, spell progression, skill progression, etc. by distributing them. Handy stuff.

7.) No class skills. You get x ranks to put into skills, and can distribute them to whichever skills you want.

That being said, there are a couple things I don't like:

1.) Diplomacy wasn't really fixed. They changed the fluff around to help a bit, but the chart with set DCs to influence people to become crazy fanatics toward you is still there.

2.) The Toughness saving throw. You botch a roll, and you die. The DC for Toughness is 15 + the damage bonus you're hit with, and your Toughness throw is modified only by your Con and the armor you wear. If you fail a roll by 20 or more, you die. Ouch.



I'm sure there's more, but I haven't 100% scoured the book yet. So far, I see an improvement in several places, most notably classes and magic.

[ludomastro]

Ok, I have the Basic Book and the Companion (which have apparently been rolled together if my sources are correct) as well as the setting book and the Bestiary.

I love the concept of the game. It takes all the parts that I like about d20 and keeps them while getting rid of my less favorite parts.

I agree that a botched roll can kill you; however, you have Conviction to prevent that from becoming an issue in those cases.

Besides, I personally like the grittier feel of the game. I just can't get on the hit point train, no matter how hard I try.

[Psychic Robot]

I really like the True20 system. One of the supplements had a "create-your-own-class" system that was really cool, and I very much like how the attributes are done.

Awful art, unfortunately.

[Ravengm]

True, the art isn't top-notch, but it's not a big deal for me personally.

[Calibron]

Let me see if I can find it...

One of the first problems I spotted with that is that someones actions should never do *nothing*; and the next step away from having absolutely no effect is to completely remove your opponents actions and make them easier to hurt the next attack. Actually no, that's just the first major problem I spotted, the real first problem I spotted was that someone has to roll every time they're hit; that quite obviously doubles the amount of dice being tossed around for no good reason. In fact I didn't really stop seeing problems until I stopped reading the document.

The fact that everything that's supposed to survive more than one fight needs bullshit "get out of jail free" points should tell you this is a horrible system for a high fantasy game, or any game that involves a moderate amount of combat and characters that are supposed to live more than one session.

That was my reaction to the True20 damage system back when we were still hammering out the basic function of CAN and HP and such for TNE and this was brought up as a possibility. A system significantly altered by Frank eventually won me over though.

[Koumei]

I can only give secondhand information here, but apparently there is no good reason to be a caster, as you can only achieve the same things anyone else could achieve, except you can fail the fatigue roll and pass out.

I don't like the sound of the Toughness save, as is. I didn't like it in "Mutants and Masterminds" (the precursor to True20), and never had a character that didn't have full ranks of Invulnerable Protection, and I don't like it in this either.

But the person who told me the former problem and mentioned that the latter can be an issue also said he really liked it - enough to completely convert from D&D.

[baduin]

That's not true. If you look carefully, Adept in True20 has enough tools to conquer the world at middle levels. Adepts at lower levels are not particularly powerful in typical combat (at higher levels they are as broke as usual), but are very powerful out of combat - so powerful, in fact, that they can kill any warrior in sight range.