[Class] The Defender

[Manxome]

I have recently been talked into actually playing a D&D 3.5e game. This, in turn, has caused me to spend some time reading the SRD and such, and consequently I find myself brainstorming ability ideas. I have assembled several of these ideas into a class, and naturally, now I need someone with actual game experience to explain to me everything that's horribly wrong with it.

Note that this assumes Tome rules in effect; all feats referenced are from Races of War.


Defender
"YOU...SHALL NOT...PASS!"

Defenders are able warriors that prioritize the safety of their allies over the destruction of their enemies. Of course, destroying their enemies helps protect their allies, so most Defenders pursue this objective as well. Some Defenders are noble and idealistic and strive to protect the helpless; others just figure that keeping their current allies alive is easier than finding new ones.

Defenders focus on martial combat and do not practice any traditional form of spellcasting, but they can't exactly ignore magic, given the number of magical threats in the world. Consequently, Defenders learn to manipulate the magic around them.

Alignment: Any. Usually (but not always) similar to the alignment of the people the Defender wants to protect.

Races: Races that don't value staying alive tend not to last very long. Defenders may be of any race.

Starting Age: As fighter.

Hit Die: d10

Class Skills: The Defender's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex)

Skills/Level: 4 + Intelligence Bonus

BAB: Good (1/1), Saves: Fort: Good; Reflex: Good; Will: Good

Level, Benefit
1 Aura of Safety, Empowered Saves
2 Superior Save, Immediate Aid
3 Danger Sense
4 Uncanny Rescue, Radiate Courage, Unresting Guard
5 Positional Advantage, Diverting Offense
6 Spell Static, Lasting Aid
7 Retaliatory Strike
8 Defender's Resilience
9 Distracting Blows, Greater Aura of Safety
10 Aggressive Defense
11 Phalanx Fighter
12 Spell Stretch, Improved Spell Static
13 Improved Aid, Instant Aura of Safety
14 Ranged Aid, Improved Retaliatory Strike
15 Spell Mirror
16 Reflect Woes
17 Spell Snare, Unerring Sentinel
18 General Aid, Greater Spell Static
19 Warped Reach
20 Greater Aid, Eternal Aura of Safety

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Defenders are proficient with all simple weapons and Martial Weapons. Defenders are proficient with Light, Medium, and Heavy Armor, Shields and Great Shields.

Aura of Safety (Su): As a swift action, a Defender may project an Aura of Safety to protect himself and his allies. Roll a d20 and add the Defender's highest save to the result. For one round, the Defender and all allies within 30 feet automatically succeed on the save against any spell or spell-like ability whose DC is less than or equal to the result (if the DC is higher, the target may still attempt a save as normal). This ability may be used a number of times per day equal to 3 + his charisma modifier.

At 9th level, Aura of Safety extends up to 60 feet and works against any effect that allows a save. It is now usable a number of times per day equal to half the Defender's class levels + his charisma modifier.

At 13th level, using Aura of Safety becomes a free action, instead of a Swift action.

At 20th level, there is no longer a limit to the number of times per day the Defender may project an Aura of Safety, and its range is extended to 120 feet.

Empowered Saves (Ex): A Defender has a resistance bonus to his saves equal to one third his character level, rounded up.

Superior Save (Ex): When a Defender attains 2nd level, one of his saves (fortitude, reflex, or will) becomes a Superior Save. Whenever he uses that save, he may add his highest attribute modifier (whichever it is at the time) instead of the usual attribute (CON, DEX, or WIS, respectively).

Immediate Aid (Ex): A Defender of 2nd level is aware of the plight of his allies at all times. He may Aid Another as an immediate action.

Danger Sense: A Defender gains Danger Sense as a bonus feat at 3rd level. If he already has this feat, he may instead select any [Combat] feat for which he meets the prerequisites.

Uncanny Rescue (Ex): A Defender is always vigilant for threats to his allies. Once a Defender has attained 4th level, any ally adjacent to the Defender benefits from Uncanny Dodge. Any adjacent allies that already have Uncanny Dodge benefit from Improved Uncanny Dodge (the Defender himself does not).

Radiate Courage (Ex): At 4th level, a Defender becomes immune to [Fear] effects, and all [Fear] effects are suppressed on any ally benefitting from his Aura of Safety.

Unresting Guard (Ex): Once the Defender has reached 4th level, he never becomes fatigued and no longer requires sleep. He is now immune to magical sleep effects.

Positional Advantage (Ex): A Defender considers danger to others more important than danger to himself. As an immediate action, a Defender of 5th level may move one touched creature five feet in any direction. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. If the target is unwilling, the Defender must succeed at a touch attack to move the target, and provokes an attack of opportunity from the target unless the he has the Edge against that target.

Diverting Offense (Ex): Once a Defender has reached 5th level, any creature that a Defender threatens can neither grant nor receive flanking bonuses, unless he allows it.

Spell Static (Su): Magic doesn't behave entirely normally near a Defender. Once the Defender has reached 6th level, he gains spell resistance equal to 10 + his level. Any allies within 10 feet of the Defender also benefit from this spell resistance. At 12th level, this range increases to 20 feet. At 18th level, this range increases to 40 feet.

Spell Static (Su): Magic doesn't behave entirely normally near a Defender. Once the Defender has reached 6th level, any ally within 10 feet of the Defender receives spell resistance equal to 5 + the Defender's character level (the Defender himself does not). At 12th level, this improves to 10 + level and works at a distance of 20 feet. At 18th level, this improves to 15 + level and works at a distance of 40 feet.

Lasting Aid (Ex): When a Defender of 6th level uses an Aid Another action to provide an ally with an attack or AC bonus, that bonus applies to every relevant attack within the next round, instead of only to the first one.

Retaliatory Strike (Ex): A 7th-level Defender zealously protects his allies. Any creature in a square that the Defender threatens provokes an attack or opportunity from the Defender whenever it makes an attack that does not target him. He may make these attacks of opportunity even if he is flat-footed. If the attack would already provoke an attack of opportunity, it provokes a second one. At 14th level, attacks of opportunity made with this ability do not count against the Defender's limit of attacks of opportunity per round.

Defender's Resilience: A Defender gains either Great Fortitude, Iron Will, or Lightning Reflexes as a bonus feat at 8th level. If the Defender already has all three of these feats, he may instead select any feat for which he meets the prerequisites.

Distracting Blows (Su): A Defender of 9th level has learned to momentarily disrupt the focus of opponents with his attacks. Whenever the Defender makes a successful attack against an opponent currently performing an action (normally only possible as a readied attack or attack or opportunity), the target must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 level + STR) or lose the action. If the action was a movement and the target fails the save, he remains in the last square he occupied before the attack was triggered.

Distracting Blows (Ex): Whenever the Defender of 9th level deals damage with an attack of opportunity or readied attack, the target must make a concentration check (DC 10 + damage dealt) or lose the action, even if the action would not normally require a concentration check to avoid interruption. If the action was a movement and the target fails the concentration check, he remains in the last square he occupied before provoking the attack of opportunity.

Aggressive Defense (Ex): At 10th level, a Defender always has the Edge against any opponent currently threatening any of his allies. Additionally, he may make an attack of opportunity against any opponent that enters his threatened range if that opponent could threaten any of the Defender's allies from the space being entered. These attacks of opportunity do not benefit from the Defender's Distracting Blows ability.

Phalanx Fighter: A Defender gains Phalanx Fighter as a bonus feat at 11th level. If he already has this feat, he may instead select any [Combat] feat for which he meets the prerequisites.

Spell Stretch (Su): At 12th level, a Defender learns to manipulate the duration of magical effects. Whenever the Defender or an ally within 20 feet is affected by a spell or spell-like ability with a duration other than instantaneous, concentration, or permanent, the Defender automatically knows the effect's duration, and may opt to increase or decrease it by up to 50%. This is not an action.

Improved Aid (Ex): Whenever a Defender of 13th level performs an Aid Another action, he provides double the usual bonus.

Ranged Aid (Ex): A Defender of 14th level may use Aid Another actions to hinder any opponent he can see within 60 feet, rather than just opponents within his reach.

Spell Mirror (Su): When a Defender of 15th level is targeted by a spell (or within the area affected by an area spell), he may choose for that spell to also affect the caster (the caster is entitled to saves or spell resistance as normal for the spell). This is not an action.

Reflect Woes (Ex): When a Defender of 16th level makes a successful attack, at his option, all poisons, diseases, negative levels, and ability damage afflicting the Defender or any of his allies within 10 feet are transferred (with their remaining durations) to the target. This transfer bypasses the target's immunity to any effect he is capable of inflicting.

Spell Snare (Su): A Defender of 17th level has learned to entrap magical effects as they pass by. Whenever a spell or spell-like ability with a range of at least 5' and no more than "Long" is cast such that its line of effect passes within 20 feet of the Defender, he automatically knows the spell being cast and its target (though not necessarily the caster). If the spell targets a creature, object, point, or area, the Defender may choose for the spell to target himself, one of his held items, or his position (as appropriate) instead. If he snares a spell that requires an attack roll, the attack automatically succeeds, but the Defender is still entitled to a saving throw or spell resistance as appropriate for the spell. This is not an action.

Unerring Sentinel (Ex): Once the Defender has reached 17th level, he suppresses all of the following conditions on any allies within his reach: dazed, confused, entangled, and all fear and sleep effects. Additionally, any ally within the Defender's reach that is helpless is treated as being stunned instead.

General Aid (Ex): When a Defender of 18th level uses Aid Another to hinder an opponent and provide an attack or AC bonus to an ally, he provide bonuses to both attack and AC (rather than just one), and that bonus applies to all allies (rather than just one).

Warped Reach (Su): At 19th level, a Defender armed with any melee weapon automatically threatens every square that is threatened by any ally within 100 feet, even if he does not have line of effect to those squares. The Defender also provides a flanking bonus to any ally attacking any creature the Defender threatens, regardless of relative position.

Greater Aid (Ex): Whenever a Defender of 20th level performs an Aid Another action, he provides triple the usual bonus (instead of double from Improved Aid)

[Maxus]

Yeow.

My first impression is that if a Knight and Defender teamed up...

Mechanically, I'd have to wait until I'm clearer-headed before I try really reading and analyzing this huge list of abilities and bonuses.

[CatharzGodfoot]

I like. For the most part, the balance seems spot-on.

I would add proficiency with great shields: there is a lot of incentive to maximize reach with this class, but a great shield screams 'defender'.

I'd also change the wording on uncanny rescue:

A Defender is always vigilant for threats to his allies. Once a Defender has attained 4th level, all allies adjacent to the Defender [If you want to exclude the defender, put "except for the Defender herself" here] benefit from Uncanny Dodge. An adjacent ally that has Uncanny Dodge from another source instead gains Improved Uncanny Dodge.

Reflect Woes (Ex): When a Defender of 16th level makes a successful attack, at his option, all poisons, diseases, negative levels, and ability damage afflicting the Defender or any of his allies within 10 feet are transferred (with their remaining durations) to the target. This transfer bypasses the target's immunity to any effect he is capable of inflicting.

Wow. There is a lot of good multi-faceted stuff in here: spell stretch and mirror are both simple and have a myriad of applications.

The one ability I don't like is warped reach, because Fighters Can't Have Nice Things.

[Manxome]

I would add proficiency with great shields: there is a lot of incentive to maximize reach with this class, but a great shield screams 'defender'.

Fair enough, I'll edit that in.

I'd also change the wording on uncanny rescue:

A Defender is always vigilant for threats to his allies. Once a Defender has attained 4th level, all allies adjacent to the Defender [If you want to exclude the defender, put "except for the Defender herself" here] benefit from Uncanny Dodge. An adjacent ally that has Uncanny Dodge from another source instead gains Improved Uncanny Dodge.

The Defender is already guaranteed to have Uncanny Dodge from the Danger Sense feat he got automatically at level 3 (it's part of the +1 BAB effect), so I figured it would be clearer just to stipulate that it doesn't get upgraded.

The one ability I don't like is warped reach, because Fighters Can't Have Nice Things.

Can you elaborate? I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at here.

[Maxus]

Spell Static (Su): Magic doesn't behave entirely normally near a Defender. Once the Defender has reached 6th level, any ally within 10 feet of the Defender receives spell resistance equal to 5 + the Defender's character level (the Defender himself does not). At 12th level, this improves to 10 + level and works at a distance of 20 feet. At 18th level, this improves to 15 + level and works at a distance of 40 feet.

This might as well apply to the Defender as well. Maybe it's just me, but it seems a little illogical that there's field of magical static that surrounds this guy but does not include him. Or maybe he can have the option to make it a personal effect.

[CatharzGodfoot]

The Defender is already guaranteed to have Uncanny Dodge from the Danger Sense feat he got automatically at level 3 (it's part of the +1 BAB effect), so I figured it would be clearer just to stipulate that it doesn't get upgraded.

Got it.

The one ability I don't like is warped reach, because Fighters Can't Have Nice Things.

Can you elaborate? I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at here.

The flavor of the ability ('I can make AoOs with my sword from 100' away') seems a little at odds with the rest of the class. It seems too overtly 'magical'. Of course, seeming too magical is why "Fighters Can't Have Nice Things", so any statement that an ability should not be granted to a warrior on the grounds of seeming too magical is automatically invalid.

Now, why I think it's reasonable that a strike from a defender's nonmagical sword should energy drain a nightshade, but that it's unreasonable that she be able to warp space, is beyond my ability to explain.

[Maxus]

Now, why I think it's reasonable that a strike from a defender's nonmagical sword should energy drain a nightshade, but that it's unreasonable that she be able to warp space, is beyond my ability to explain.

Oh, that's easy. Defenders are people who have a natural bit of magic, but they don't manifest it as do most magical people (with spells). Instead, it gets channeled into untrained and relatively uncontrolled expressions of magic which are shaped by the Defender's strong desire to protect people and punish those who would harm others.

The space warp thing is just a stronger, slightly more controlled effect, and could be the subject of a cool Prestige class based upon understanding the firmament so one might better strain and sever the pieces of it that contain an enemy.

[Manxome]

This might as well apply to the Defender as well. Maybe it's just me, but it seems a little illogical that there's field of magical static that surrounds this guy but does not include him.

Would it help if I made some sort of "eye of the storm" analogy?

The design reasoning is that this is supposed to be an incentive for enemies to hit the Defender with spells instead of his allies (thus furthering the Defender's ability to keep his allies safe). I don't know if that's actually a good idea, but that's the theory.

[Maxus]

Here we come to an in-game argument.

Will the enemies *know* that this guy doesn't have Spell Resistance? How can they tell, except by trial and error?

And considering that most enemies you run into ought to have a short life-expectancy, it'd be unreasonable for them to catch out and figure out that the Defender is the one guy in the party who doesn't have SR. Unless some run and pass on the word that *some* of the people may have Spell Resistance. Even then, it should take them at least a few encounters before they figure out what's causing it.

[Manxome]

OK, fair point. I think I was imagining that opponents might recognize the character as a Defender and know class features, but on reflection that may not be reasonable.

Still, it kind of sucks if your job is to defend other people and the tactically optimal thing for your opponents to do is to ignore you and kill the people you're supposedly protecting.

[Maxus]

OK, fair point. I think I was imagining that opponents might recognize the character as a Defender and know class features, but on reflection that may not be reasonable.

Still, it kind of sucks if your job is to defend other people and the tactically optimal thing for your opponents to do is to ignore you and kill the people you're supposedly protecting.

It makes sense long-running, recurring enemies will eventually figure it out, but run-of-the-mill encounters will logically be like, "Huh, they all have spell resistance."

Anyway, one guy in heavy armor looks much like another, unless there's an Order of Defenders that all have a recognizable crest on their armor or their shield or something.

[Judging__Eagle]

Some issues:

Spell Static (Su): Magic doesn't behave entirely normally near a Defender. Once the Defender has reached 6th level, any ally within 10 feet of the Defender receives spell resistance equal to 5 + the Defender's character level (the Defender himself does not). At 12th level, this improves to 10 + level and works at a distance of 20 feet. At 18th level, this improves to 15 + level and works at a distance of 40 feet.

At lvl 6, thats SR 11.... which is sort of... weak; at 12 it's 22 which means a 50/50 chance of stopping spells; at 18 it's a whopping 33; which is brutal.

Personally, I'd say to have the radius of the aura increase; not the SR itself. Just have it as 10 + Class level so that it's always useful and doesn't get out of hand at later levels. Also, the fact that the Defender isn't affected by their own SR aura is... annoying.

Later on have the defender gain a "special" kind of Antimagic field. One that acts like a Silence effect in that magic can't be targeted through it unless the Defender wants it to; in this way the Defender can stand in front of allies and use his special AMF as a sort of 'wall' to block line of effect.....of simply just have an ability that basically says that a defender gets an Aura that blocks line of effect for magic and negates any magic that they don't allow that occurs in the affected area.

Warped Reach (Su): At 19th level, a Defender armed with any melee weapon automatically threatens every square that is threatened by any ally within 100 feet, even if he does not have line of effect to those squares. The Defender also provides a flanking bonus to any ally attacking any creature the Defender threatens, regardless of relative position.

There needs to be some sort of opportunity cost for this ability. Even wizards need a standard action to cast a spell, sometimes a full-round action to cast a useful spell.

Personally, I'd say something along the lines of "If a defender takes no full-round, standard or move actions in their round they can ..."

[Maxus]

Warped Reach (Su): At 19th level, a Defender armed with any melee weapon automatically threatens every square that is threatened by any ally within 100 feet, even if he does not have line of effect to those squares. The Defender also provides a flanking bonus to any ally attacking any creature the Defender threatens, regardless of relative position.

There needs to be some sort of opportunity cost for this ability. Even wizards need a standard action to cast a spell, sometimes a full-round action to cast a useful spell.

Personally, I'd say something along the lines of "If a defender takes no full-round, standard or move actions in their round they can ..."

Hm. I dunno. I mean, at 19th level, there's all sorts of crazy effects in action. By comparison, this is relatively tame, although I count these stackings/interactions:

-Retaliatory Strike
-Aggressive Defense
-That feat that gives Opportunist
-Hordebreaker would help give some extra AoO's.

So by 19th level, as long as his allies are within 100 feet, the Defender's able to throw around a storm of AoO's on enemies trying to melee his allies, as well as attack them normally. Except it doesn't work on very large enemies with long reaches who are keeping their distance.

Considering the Defender doesn't get a class source of bonus damage (although he could pick some feats that would increase his damage), I don't see why it's so out there it can't be active all the time.

[Judging__Eagle]

They need bonus damage for AoOs; or bonus damage against any target that has attacked an enemy already.

Or damage that increases the more often allies have been attacked.

[Manxome]

Some issues:

Spell Static (Su): Magic doesn't behave entirely normally near a Defender. Once the Defender has reached 6th level, any ally within 10 feet of the Defender receives spell resistance equal to 5 + the Defender's character level (the Defender himself does not). At 12th level, this improves to 10 + level and works at a distance of 20 feet. At 18th level, this improves to 15 + level and works at a distance of 40 feet.

At lvl 6, thats SR 11.... which is sort of... weak; at 12 it's 22 which means a 50/50 chance of stopping spells; at 18 it's a whopping 33; which is brutal.

This progression was based on the Dungeonomicon Monk, who gets basically the same stuff roughly two levels earlier (though it affects himself instead of allies).

Perhaps that was a poor choice of models..? It was the only Tome class I could think of off-hand that gets SR.

[Maxus]

Some issues:

Spell Static (Su): Magic doesn't behave entirely normally near a Defender. Once the Defender has reached 6th level, any ally within 10 feet of the Defender receives spell resistance equal to 5 + the Defender's character level (the Defender himself does not). At 12th level, this improves to 10 + level and works at a distance of 20 feet. At 18th level, this improves to 15 + level and works at a distance of 40 feet.

At lvl 6, thats SR 11.... which is sort of... weak; at 12 it's 22 which means a 50/50 chance of stopping spells; at 18 it's a whopping 33; which is brutal.

This progression was based on the Dungeonomicon Monk, who gets basically the same stuff roughly two levels earlier (though it affects himself instead of allies).

Perhaps that was a poor choice of models..? It was the only Tome class I could think of off-hand that gets SR.

Well, the Dungeo-monk's SR does get to be, as JE said, brutal to surpass, and it only applies to himself. JE's suggestion makes a lot of sense; to go the moderate route and have it be 50-50 success chance against level-appropriate opposition, and just have it affect a larger and larger area. The spell-wall thing isn't a bad idea, either.

[Manxome]

Hm...so maybe Spell Static becomes something like this...

Spell Static (Su): Magic doesn't behave entirely normally near a Defender. Once the Defender has reached 6th level, he gains spell resistance equal to 10 + his level. Any allies within 10 feet of the Defender also benefit from this spell resistance. At 12th level, this range increases to 20 feet. At 18th level, this range increases to 40 feet.

...and then we add something like this?

Spell Snare (Su): A Defender of 17th level has learned to entrap magical effects as they pass by. Whenever a spell or spell-like ability with a range of at least 5' and no more than "Long" is cast such that its line of effect passes within 20 feet of the Defender, he automatically knows the spell being cast and its target (though not necessarily the caster). If the spell targets a creature, object, point, or area, the Defender may choose for the spell to target himself, one of his held items, or his position (as appropriate) instead. If he snares a spell that requires an attack roll, the attack automatically succeeds, but the Defender is still entitled to a saving throw or spell resistance as appropriate for the spell. This is not an action.

(Notice that this combos nicely with Spell Mirror.)

[Judging__Eagle]

sort of like a sheild of arrow catching, but for spells.

Defenders need to have an ability that let's them deal extra damage to people that threaten their allies in combat (note: this isn't like a Knight's Designate Opponent ability; and a Defender with a lvl of monk (for more speed) and Whirlwind would be able to capitalize on harming lots of enemies. Of course, his group would have to be in pretty bad shape for them all to be threatened by enemies.


Brook no threat to my allies: Defenders can't stand it when any of their allies are threatened in combat and pull out the stops to make sure that their allies can move to safety.

As a swift action a Defender issues a warning to all enemy creatures that can hear him to leave the Defender's allies alone. If in the Defender's next round any of his allies were attacked or remain threatened by an enemy creature, a Defender may add double their class levels in damage against all such creatures. This extra damage applies to all attacks and attacks of opportunity that a Defender can make.


It's sort of like the knight ability, but we expect the defender to hit more than one target at once. An ability that spreads damage out among targets would be interesting; everytime you make an attack roll... nm, it's just whirlwind, but broken.

[Manxome]

Brook no threat to my allies: Defenders can't stand it when any of their allies are threatened in combat and pull out the stops to make sure that their allies can move to safety.

As a swift action a Defender issues a warning to all enemy creatures that can hear him to leave the Defender's allies alone. If in the Defender's next round any of his allies were attacked or remain threatened by an enemy creature, a Defender may add double their class levels in damage against all such creatures. This extra damage applies to all attacks and attacks of opportunity that a Defender can make.

Anyone else want to weigh in on this?

My initial reactions are thus...

1) Adds more average damage than the Tome Barbarian's rage dice or the Rogue's sneak attack dice, or about half as much damage as the Knight's Designate Opponent (per hit). Compared to Designate Opponent, it works on multiple targets (which is huge; if you're fighting 3 guys and 2 of them attack you, you can still spend all your actions getting bonus damage on the third), isn't limited to medium range, and there isn't a limit to the number of attacks/round that can get the bonus damage (Knight can't apply it to more attacks than allowed by BAB). And it was my impression that Designate Opponent is one of the main class features of being a Knight, whereas this is being tacked on as an afterthought, which gives me concern regarding its balance (though I still don't have any high-level play experience).

2) As written, it is really easy to get the bonus damage even if the enemies aren't attacking your allies. Admittedly, the Knight's ability is already fairly abusable in this way (get allies to stand between you at the designated opponent, use a bow to attack from a distance, etc., etc.), but this ability gets basically all the same tricks plus the following:

• It works on enemies that attack you and your allies (with multiple attacks or area attacks)
• It works on enemies that only attack you, but threaten your melee ally who's standing right next to you.
• It works if the enemy runs well away from all of your allies, but then one of your allies voluntarily runs back into its theat range before your turn.
• It works if the enemy tries to get away from both you and your ally, but you use Distracting Blows to interrupt its movement so that it can't.

That sounds to me like it's basically going to turn into "you get the bonus damage on your main target all the time, no matter what it does, if you really care." Which really seems out-of-line with the Defender's schtick.

3) This would be the fourth class feature the Defender gets that requires a swift/immediate action (Aura of Safety, Immediate Aid, Positional Advantage). So this is competing for actions with other class features that seem more ally-centric and tactically interesting (at least to me).

4) This sounds like a pain to keep track of. For every affected enemy, you need to remember that it's under the ability, and keep track of whether it attacks one of your allies each round or not. Heaven forbid that you have two Defenders both using this ability at different times during the round.


So I'm prompted to ask: what exactly is the goal behind the bonus damage, why are we trying to achieve it, and what's the measuring stick to determine whether we succeed? Because I see several Tome melee classes that don't seem to get anything similar, and I'm unclear about whether you're concerned that the Defender can't fulfill its designated role or you just think it needs more raw damage potential.

[Judging__Eagle]

I'm unclear about whether you're concerned that the Defender can't fulfill its designated role

It's not a concern. It's a fact that I know will occur.

If you can't BE A THREAT, then NO ONE WILL ATTACK YOU. Ever.

The monsters will go after the Blitzing TWF barbarian who is actually a threat.

Or the Knight who runs around the back of the party with a bow and threatens the furthest enemy possible, utterly fucking up the usual "boss with mook sheild" arrangement, and forcing even tough monsters to provoke AoOs just to make sure that they're not 2-Shotted by the archer knight who uses PBS, Sniper and Blitz.

Or the Samurai that just drops crits on everyone.

Hell even the unhittable monk that deals speed or con damage is a bigger threat to enemies than this class is. Mostly b/c he gets in the way of enemy movement and they can't do shit about where he is. So they have to mob up on him and try to grapple him, if not he'll jump over their heads and keep punching them.

The healers will make sure that they don't get killed. Sometimes going so far as to act as living, healing, backpacks.

The defender is useless except for the SR at higher levels.

The Defender gets ignored. Not only by monsters, but also by the party.

No more fighters that don't contribute, and no classes that are "tanks" and use a bullshit mechanic to "get aggro." That was stupid, is stupid and will always be stupid.

The only aggro that works in D&D is raw damage or a GM that plays monsters as if somehow the useless "Defender" is a real threat.

The ability that I wrote up needs some tweaking, but you need something like that to make this guy even pretend to do his job.

[Manxome]

I have heard this particular rant several times before. Though if you really believed I was completely overlooking an important and fundamental rule of class design, you might have started by saying that, rather than just saying "they need bonus damage" and then going off on a tirade when I fail to read your mind.

In point of fact, the fact that they can drop AoOs on people hitting their allies is already a source of increased damage. They also have a variety of abilities capable of making their allies harder to kill even if the monsters do entirely ignore the Defender--such as Aura of Safety, their cumulative bonuses on Aid Another, Uncanny Rescue, Spell Static, Unerring Sentinel, etc. Most of which can be used without reducing their own baseline offensive capabilities (full BAB, etc.).

It's possible that this is all not enough. I'm not sure. But it's not like I missed the memo saying that classes have to contribute something even when their enemies aren't stupid.

Also note that CatharzGodfoot seems to disagree with you, since he already posted that "for the most part, the balance seems spot-on."

I think the RoW Fighter is probably the Tome base class most similar to the Defender. In terms of his raw damage potential, I'm not seeing that he gets much over the Defender other than Combat Focus and extra feats. The Defender gets Retaliatory Strike, enhanced Aid Another (which can translate into allies hitting more often, boosting overall party damage), Spell Mirror, and Reflect Woes. I'm willing to believe the Fighter has greater total offensive potential there, but my own, inexperienced estimation was that those would be in the same ballpark. Am I wrong? If so, why?

[Judging__Eagle]

I figured out what my reason for concern was when I first read this and didn't respond.

This character is a reactive character, he can only do things after his party has been attacked.

He's only going to do his thing after an ally has been attacked.

How well can he do that on his own?

The Fighter can tank via being a melee threat. A very large, effective and even hard to kill one.

((An aside on fighter's as melee threats and what sort of threat they can be and what they can take on.))

A long while ago I built and posted a lvl 12 PHB fighter (with ... _every_ shenanigan possible to make them as effective as possible;the weapon groups rules from Unearthed Arcana instead of normal class weapon proficiencies just to get one more feat in the build; feats from the Expanded Psionics book, Stuff like Robilar's Gambit from PHB II, the list goes on an on) and a lvl 12 RoW fighter (SO much easier to build). I found out that the lvl 12 PHB fighter wasn't 'too' bad, but wasn't too graet either.

The lvl 12 RoW fighter would be able to deal with monsters as high as CR 14 on his own.

Mind you, his build was shaved and sanded and shaped over a fey days and a lvl 12 RoW fighter has powerful resources at their disposal; of course, now his gear would switch around using BoG rules (and 15k plus items are now valid in a pre-made character, on a case by case basis), but what he's lose in breadth of gear would be made up with more powerful gear (+4 items instead of +2 weapons and +3 armour).

The fighter there can do his thing (kill his enemies) on his own just fine. When with others they keep the heat off of other party members when in a party, since they're in melee.

So can any of the other melee-type classes in RoW (and Iaimeki's Kantian Pally, except against N monsters or G creatures that are mind-controlled or something). Even the Knight can hope to beat their enemies up with class-based abilities, if their enemy misses, then they get their bonus damage the next round.

Can the Defender do their thing on their own? Can they Defend themselves (aka kill monsters) when they're on their own?

Catharz's comment is actually why I responded.

Also, I think that

Warped Reach (Su): At 19th level, a Defender armed with any melee weapon automatically threatens every square that is threatened by any ally within 100 feet, even if he does not have line of effect to those squares. The Defender also provides a flanking bonus to any ally attacking any creature the Defender threatens, regardless of relative position.

Might be better named. As it stand now, the name does not make me think of what the effect is; as a result I didn't actually realize what the ability was really doing.

You're not attacking everything within some sort of warped reach, you're: 1) fighting from every square that your allies are also fighting from (you threaten what they threaten), and 2) you're set up in flanking position with all of your allies.

Really At your allies side or Leave no threat unchallenged is a better explanation for what you're doing.

Also, what is this classes Signature ability? What ability do you see them doing 50-90% of the time at lvl 10? or 15?

If it's Retalitory strikes, that means that a Defender isn't a Defender until level 7, and the lvl 1 Defender is... giving a bonus to saving throws.

Which is honestly, less than useless, most creatures deal damage, not cast spells at level 1.

Retalitory strikes at lvl 1 might be an other idea for the class. Some games will never see that ability, ever.

I've got some ideas for reordering the class abilities and removing the ones that just seem like padding.

[CatharzGodfoot]

Catharz's comment is actually why I responded.

It's true, I'm no expert game designer. When I make unsupported claims, they're just unsupported claims.

Also, I think that ...Warped Reach...Might be better named...
Really At your allies side or Leave no threat unchallenged is a better explanation for what you're doing.

Yeah, that was part of my problem with the ability too. A little rebranding wouldn't hurt.

Also, what is this classes Signature ability? What ability do you see them doing 50-90% of the time at lvl 10? or 15?

If it's Retalitory strikes, that means that a Defender isn't a Defender until level 7, and the lvl 1 Defender is... giving a bonus to saving throws.

Which is honestly, less than useless, most creatures deal damage, not cast spells at level 1.

Compare a 1st level defender to a 1st level samurai. The samurai is up one magic exotic weapon (and possibly on will saves), but has worse HP, saves, and armor. If a party with a samurai gets hit by a color spray, there's a good chance that a samurai will remain standing. If a party with a defender is hit by a color spray, there is a good chance the party will remain standing--iff the defender threw up an aura of safety.

The guesswork combined with the limited uses of AoS makes it less effective ability than maybe it should be, but the defender is still a contributer at 1st level. From second level on up, you get things like Immediate Aid and bonus feats, which are quite nice. At 13th level you're aiding others at +8 for two rounds with an immediate action, which will be quite noticeable.

The one thing the class tends to lack is normal actions, and for that you'll have to turn to feats. Expert tactician is a given, and Subtle Cut provides a few nice options as well.

[Manxome]

JE, I'm reading a lot of vague, repetitive claims of the adequacy of other classes and the inadequacy of this one, but no statistics or even hard examples. You said, not once, but four times that the Defender can't act until his party is attacked, but you didn't suggest what he should be doing, give examples of what other classes do that he doesn't, or even list the abilities whose reactionary nature is such a concern to you.

You typed up a 3-paragraph spoiler message claiming to be about why fighters are good, but actually all you say is that you built some fighters and they seemed good to you. No comparisons to the Defender, not even any details on the builds or why they worked.

You are not helping.

As for signature ability, I don't necessarily see there being one signature skill for the Defender, though Aura of Safety might be closest. I do see Retaliatory Strike as being one of his iconic abilities, kind of like I see Foil Action being an iconic ability for the RoW Fighter--and you'll notice that they gain those at precisely the same level (7).

You'll also notice that Positional Advantage (Defender 5) bears a marked resemblance to Active Assault (Fighter 5). At the precise level when the Fighter gets an extra immediate action (13), the Defender starts getting double benefit from Aid Another (which is his iconic immediate action), and Aura of Safety becomes free instead of swift. Back at level 1, the Fighter gets Combat Focus, which will let him reroll one die per round at the cost of his swift action--the Defender gets Aura of Safety at the same level, which takes a Swift and does something very similar to giving the party a reroll on their saves.

They've also got the same BAB, same base saves, same hit die, and same starting proficiencies.

There's important differences, of course, but I really did put a substantial effort towards keeping the Defender closely in line with the Fighter. If I failed, I'd like a detailed explanation as to precisely what I did wrong, not some hysterical ramblings about how the Fighter is really very good for unspecific/anecdotal reasons and the Defender isn't, you think, maybe?

It is true that lots of the Defender's abilities are party-centric and he will be less effective solo than in a group. As will the Knight, any form of battlefield controller, and anyone focusing on party buffs. But that's part of his core concept, so if you consider that, alone, to be enough to disqualify him as a viable class, you need not make further comment.

It's true, I'm no expert game designer. When I make unsupported claims, they're just unsupported claims.

Speaking of unspported claims...

[Judging__Eagle]

I see Foil Action being an iconic ability for the RoW Fighter--and you'll notice that they gain those at precisely the same level (7).

No, they get Forge Lore at 7; Foil is level 9.

I only know that off the top of my head b/c I've built and used several fighter builds and Forge Lore had to be changed around to take BoG into account (I made it so that Caster lvl for crafting = Craft Skill ranks and gear a fighter uses counts the Fighter's Craft skill rank as their level for determining the bonus that their gear provides).

In all honesty the RoW fighter is a hard class to use well and almost everyone in my group tends to favour Barbarians, Rogues, Druids and Monks (with the occasional Paladin and Cleric) over the Fighter.

I've never seen Foil Action in game and honestly I'm not so sure that it's all it's cracked up to be. My fighter builds would rather just make their saving throws (Combat Focus) or ensure that important attacks hit.

The fighter's main ability is Combat Focus, being able to re-roll one dice so long as they spent a swift action up to their BAB in rounds ago.

I guess the lvl 12 PHB/RoW fighter comparison thread was from too long ago.

PHB

Dalmar Armyslayer
Human (Core) Fighter 12
Medium Humanoid - HD 12d10 (66)+ 84 = (150 HP)
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Speed: 30 ft. Fly 30 (3éday, 5 minutes per use)
Initiative: +8

Armour Class: 34 (10 + 8 Dex, 2 Vest of Natural Armour +2, 8 (Crucian Form) Headband of Alter Self, 2 Ring of Protection +2, 4 +1 Moderate Fortification Gray Armour, )
Damage Reduction:
Damage Reduction:


Attack: Melee +21 (Warchain 2d6+ 1d6 (fire) + 1d6 (electricity) +7) [Reaches 10-30 feet]
or
Attack: Melee +21 (Armour Spikes 2d6+ 1d6 (fire) +5) [Reaches Grapple-10 feet]

Attack of Opportunity: Melee +25 (Warchain 2d6+ 1d6 (fire) + 1d6 (electricity) +7) [Reaches 10-30 feet]
Attack of Opportunity: Melee +25 (Armour Spikes 2d6+ 1d6 (fire) +5) [Reaches Grapple-10 feet]
Full Attack: +21/+16/+11 (Warchain 2d6+ 1d6 (fire) + 1d6 (electricity) +7) [Reaches 10-30 feet]

Saves: Fort +18 Reflex +15 Will +11


Abilities: S 17 D 26 C 24 I 20 W 19 Ch 15
Skills:
Feats:
Notable Items:
Periapt of Health +2; Vest of Natural Armour +1, Ring of Protection +1, +1 Extending Flaming Shock Adamantine Warchain, +1 Flaming Adamantine Armour Spikes, Cloak of Resistance +3; Winged Boots, +1 Moderate Fortification Silk Steel Armour; Headband of Alter Self; Belt of the Giant [Enlarge Person at will]




Breakdown of abilities:

Notes:

Abilities (Elite Array: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, Cool
Str 10 (base) +5 (Inherent) +2 (Item) +2 (size)= 19 (+4)
Dex 15 (Base) +5 (Inherent) +4 (Item) +2 (levels 4 & Cool= 26 (+Cool
Con 14 (Base) +5 (Inherent) +4 (Item) +1 (level 12) = 24 (+7)
Int 13 (Base) +5 (Inherent) +2 (Item)= 20(+5)
Wis 12 (Base) +5 (Inherent)+2 (Item) = 19(+4)
Cha 8 (Base) +5 (Inherent) +2 (Item) = 15 (+2)

Init +8
BAB +12, Grap +15
Fort +18 (8 base +7 con +3 resistance)
Ref +15 (4 base +8 dex +3 resistance)
Will +11 (4 base +4 wis +3 resistance)

Levels/Feats:


1. Fighter [3]Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Finesse
2. Fighter [1]Combat Expertise
3. Fighter [1]Opportunistic Tactician [Take a 5' step after making an AoO]
4. Fighter [1]Spring Attack
5. Fighter []
6. Fighter [2]Whirlwind, Deft Opportunist [+4 to hit on AoOs]
7. Fighter []
8. Fighter [1]Canny Opportunist [Draw a Weapon, Ready / Loosen a Shield, or Attempts a Feint in Combat provokes an AoO]
9. Fighter [1]Exploit Adjustment [5' steps cause AoOs]
10. Fighter [1]Stand Still [Give up damage on an AoO; target must make a Ref Save of 10 + Damage done or they cannot move any more this round]
11. Fighter []
12. Fighter [2]Robilar's Gambit, Hold the line [AoOs on charging people]
[/list]

Tactics:
By Round
1. Cast Enlarge Person with the Belt of the Giant. Move towards enemies, attack any viable target within 30 feet while moving or double move.
1a. Make Attacks of Opportunity on any enemies within 30 feet that do any of the following actions that normally wouldn't provoke an AoO:
He can make up to 9 (nine) attacks of opportunity per round.
-Charge
-Draw a weapon
-Ready/Loosen a sheild
-Attempt to Feint in combat
-Take a 5' step
1b. After making an AoO, he can take a 5' foot step [Note: either you only get 1 foot step a round, or he can take up to 9 or 10]
1c. Damage can be forgone and instead the target attacked by the AoO has to make a reflex save of 10 + Damage that has been forgone or they cannot further move that round.

2. Take a 5 foot step; perform a Whirlwind Attack; attacking everyone within 30 feet.

3. Remain in place to hold back any new attackers, repeat step 1a to 2 or start again at step 1 if there are no attackers nearby.

Note: you may fly with a speed of 30 feet 3 times per day for up to 5 minutes each use.

Basically; rush the enemy; AoO anyone who gets in close, use Stand Still on things that you want to keep back; every time that they move you can force them to make a DC 29 Reflex (10 + 4d6 + 7) Save or act as if all of their move actions have been used up for the round.


I`ll write up a similar 12th lvl fighter using RoW material exclusively.

Here I only used the Wish Economy (+5 to all stats, items under 15,000 gp are free).

Anyway, what`s the idea on this build?

I presented a similar build on the char-op boards, but I had combat brute and shock trooper, both feats that don`t really help with someone who is an AoO machine.


Versus Mooks:

Knock them down or Whirlwind to kill them

Versus Casters:

You kidding me? Whirlwind or AoOs should keep them back, casting defensively could be a pain.

Versus Big Brutes:

They have to make a DC 29 reflex save via stand still, hopefully keeping them at bay for either a full-attack or other party members to deal with.

-----------------------

RoW

Marrak Blackchains, Fiendslayer
Human (Races of War) Fighter 12
Medium Humanoid - HD 12d10 (66)+ 84 + 12 = (162 HP) [Note: Dont die until you reach -20]
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Speed: 30 ft. Fly 30 (9/day, 5 minutes per use)
Initiative: +8

Armour Class: 41 Touch Flatfooted

Damage Reduction:17/Adamantine (12), - (5)
Spell Resistance: 17 (5 + Caster lvl, Mage Slayer)


Attack: Melee +21 ('large' Warchain 2d6+ 9 ) [Reaches 10-35 feet]
or
Attack: Melee +21 (Armour Spikes 2d6+ 1d6 (fire)+ 5) [Reaches Grapple-15 feet]
or
Attack: Ranged +21 ('large' Str 18 Comp Longbow 2d6+ 6) []

Full Attack: +21/+19/+19 (Warchain 2d6+ 9) [Reaches 10-30 feet]


Saves: Fort +21 Reflex +22 (Balance Check) Will +18


Abilities: S 17 D 26 C 24 I 20 W 19 Ch 15
Skills:Note: Unlike the other fighter who gets at most 5 skills maxed (and those will probably be: Climb, Jump, Swim, Intimidate and Ride, not exacty useful)

Skills/lvl 6 + int mod + human mod = 12/lvl = 12 skills at 15 ranks

Balance (Dex), 15 + 8 - 4 + 3 = 22
Bluff (Cha),
Climb (Str),
Craft (Int), 15
Diplomacy (Cha), 15
Escape Artist (Dex), -
Handle Animal (Cha),
CC Hide (Dex) 7 + 8 (+15 Mod)
Intimidate (Cha), 15
Jump (Str),
Knowledge (all skills individually) (Int), All 10 +8 (30 pts among 10 skills)
Listen (Wis), 15
Move Silently (Dex), 15
Profession (Wis),
Ride (Dex),
Sense Motive (Wis), 15
Spot (Wis), 15
Survival (Wis), 5
Swim (Str), -
Tumble (Dex) 15
Use Rope (Dex)

Feats:See build; there are 11 feats total
Notable Items:
Periapt of Health +4; Vest of Natural Armour +2, Ring of Protection +1, Cloak of Resistance +3; Winged Boots (3 pairs), +1 Moderate Fortification Gray Armour, +1 Animated Heavy Shield; various +2 stat ioun stones (str, cha, wis, int). Custom items: Headband of Alter Self; Belt of the Giant [Enlarge Person at will]; Stone of Silence.

Melee:
+1 Extending Adamantine Warchain
+1 Extending Adamantine Kusari-Gama (off hand)
+1 Flaming Adamantine Armour Spikes (on Adamantine Breastplate, off knee)

+1 Returning Adamantine (3)/Cold Iron (3)/Silver (3)/Stone (3)/Wood (3) Darts
aka "The Council of Seers"(15 darts total)
[Each one is a minor intelligent item with 10 ranks in a knowledge skill; all 10 skills are covered.
As well as one dart each with +10 in Appraise, Sense Motive, Bluff, Diplomacy and in Spellcraft]

Ranged:
+1 Holy Str 18 Comp Longbow, [18,000 gp]
+1 Flaming arrows (50)
+1 Constructbane Adamantine arrows (40),
+1 Undeadbane arrows (40),
+1 Outsiderbane (Lawful) silver arrows (40),
+1 Outsiderbane (Chaotic) cold iron arrows (40)




Breakdown of abilities:

Notes:

Abilities (Elite Array: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, Cool
Str 10 (base) +5 (Inherent) +2 (Item) +2 (size)= 19 (+4)
Dex 15 (Base) +5 (Inherent) +4 (Item) +2 (levels 4 & 8)= 26 (+8)
Con 14 (Base) +5 (Inherent) +4 (Item) +1 (level 12) = 24 (+7)
Int 13 (Base) +5 (Inherent) +2 (Item)= 20(+5)
Wis 12 (Base) +5 (Inherent)+2 (Item) = 19(+4)
Cha 8 (Base) +5 (Inherent) +2 (Item) = 15 (+2)

Init +8
BAB +12, Grap +15
Fort +21 (8 base +7 con +3 resistance +3 Great Fort)
Ref +22 (8 base +8 dex +3 resistance +3 Lighting Ref) [Evasion, Make a Balance check (+22 ) to save]
Will +18 (8 base +4 wis +3 resistance +3 Iron Will)

Levels/Feats:


1. Fighter Weapons Training, Combat Focus [2]Weapon Finesse,
2. Fighter [1]
3. Fighter Problem Solver, Pack Mule[1]
4. Fighter [1]
5. Fighter Logistics Mastery, Active Assault[]
6. Fighter [2]
7. Fighter Forge Lore, Improved Delay[]
8. Fighter [1]
9. Fighter Foil Action[1]
10. Fighter [1]
11. Fighter Lunging Attacks[]
12. Fighter [2]
[/list]
[12]
[]


12 FeatsL
1. Danger Sense (make a sense motive check on anyhting within 60', you know if they want to hurt you, even if you don't see them)
2. Whirlwind (as a full round: make a move action and attack anyone you can reach use only one attack roll; +3 on balance checks, anyone who moves into your threatened area after you whirlwind provokes and AoO)
3. Blitz, (+12 damage, only -2 to bonus attacks, intimidate for free)

4. Weapon Finesse (Dex to hit & damage, dex for tripping, gain edge if you have more dex)
5. Hordebreaker, (3 AoOs, stock, +3 TWF, +8 Dex = 14 AoOs/Round)

6. Great Fortitude, (die at -20 HP, +1 hp/HD, DR 5/-)
7. Iron Will (Slippery Mind, Dazed instead of Stunned, Pain and Fear have no effect)
8. Lighting Reflexes (Evasion, Balance check instead of reflex save, +3 Init)

9. Combat School (+2 hit, +2 damage, DC 18 Fort or be dazed one round; TAKE 10 on attacks)
10. Two Weapon Fighting (+2 Shield Bonus, double attacks,


11. Sniper (all 30 feet things upgrade to 60'; shoot into mele fine, ignore partial cover, need to be found when ranged attacking)

12. Command (Cohort; lvl 10 Rogue; UMD wand user/Sneak; uses ranged sneak touch attacks with Minor Creation or Produce Flame and casts multi-target buffs on themself and Marrak; Common buffs Invis Sphere, Magi Aura (to HIDE all magic auras on both characters; Silence, Haste, Fly.



XXXMage Slayer, [Subbed in with Problem Solver]
XXXElusive Target,


Class Features:

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Fighters are proficient with all simple and Martial Weapons. Fighters are proficient with Light, Medium, and Heavy Armor and with Shields and Great Shields.

Weapons Training (Ex): Fighters train obsessively with armor and weapons of all kinds, and using a new weapon is easy and fun. By practicing with a weapon he is not proficient with for a day, a Fighter may permanently gain proficiency with that weapon by succeeding at an Intelligence check DC 10 (you may not take 10 on this check).

Combat Focus (Ex): A Fighter is at his best when the chips are down and everything is going to Baator in a handbasket. When the world is on fire, a Fighter keeps his head better than anyone. If the Fighter is in a situation that is stressful and/or dangerous enough that he would normally be unable to "take 10" on skill checks, he may spend a Swift Action to gain Combat Focus. A Fighter may end his Combat Focus at any time to reroll any die roll he makes, and if not used it ends on its own after a number of rounds equal to his Base Attack Bonus.

Problem Solver (Ex): A Fighter of 3rd level can draw upon his intense and diverse training to respond to almost any situation. As a Swift action, he may choose any [Combat] feat he meets the prerequisites for and use it for a number of rounds equal to his base attack bonus. This ability may be used once per hour.

Pack Mule (Ex): Fighters are used to long journeys with a heavy pack and the use of a wide variety of weaponry and equipment. A 3rd level Fighter suffers no penalties for carrying a medium load, and may retrieve stored items from his person without provoking an attack of opportunity.

Logistics Mastery (Ex): Fighters are excellent and efficient logisticians. When a Fighter reaches 5th level, he gains a bonus to his Command Rating equal to one third his Fighter Level.

Active Assault (Ex): A 5th level Fighter can flawlessly place himself where he is most needed in combat. He may take a 5 foot step as an immediate action. This is in addition to any other movement he takes during his turn, even another 5 foot step.

Forge Lore: A 7th level Fighter can produce magical weapons and equipment as if he had a Caster Level equal to his ranks in Craft.

Improved Delay (Ex): A Fighter of 7th level may delay his action in one round without compromising his Initiative in the next round. In addition, a Fighter may interrupt another action with his delayed action like it was a readied action (though he does not have to announce his intentions before hand).

Foil Action (Ex): A 9th level Fighter may attempt to monkeywrench any action an opponent is taking. The Fighter may throw sand into a beholder's eye, bat aside a key spell component, or strike a weapon hand with a thrown object, but the result is the same: the opponent's action is wasted, and any spell slots, limited ability uses, or the like used to power it are expended. A Fighter must be within 30 feet of his opponent to use this ability, and must hit with a touch attack or ranged touch attack. Using Foil Action is an Immediate action. A Fighter may not wait until an action is partially completed before deciding to attempt to foil the action, but must instead attempt to foil an action as it is declared. Note that this means that a Fighter may not foil a Full Attack (because it is not declared until after it has already begun), nor may he foil a move or charge action that began out of range.
At 17th level, Foil Action may be used at up to 60 feet.

Lunging Attacks (Ex): The battlefield is an extremely dangerous place, and 11th level Fighters are expected to hold off Elder Elementals, Hezrous, and Hamatulas. Fighters of this level may add 5 feet to the reach of any of their weapons.


AC breakdown:


10
8 (base 3 + 1/2 BaB) Dex
2 Vest of Natural Armour +2 (Enhancement Natural Armour)
8 (Crucian Form) Headband of Alter Self (Racial Natural Armour)
2 Ring of Protection +2 (Defletction)
8 +1 Moderate Fortification Silk Steel Armour (Armour) (+2 on hide checks, negate the 1st -10 on move silently checks for moving, take 10 less damage when falling on flat ground)
4 +3 Buckler (Sheild) (no penalty, 13+ ranks in balance)

=52 Touch 30 FlatFooted 34

Feats:

Tactics:
By Round

VS.

The overall tactics of the PHB build was to use their large threat radius, large amount of AoOs + Stand Still to keep enemies back then attack them all at once.

The RoW build is more of a sneak (move silently and hide). It is able to notice anything dangerous before it gets close (Danger Sense) and able to either snipe to death single targets; or engage and attack large amounts of weaker targets.

Some other notes on the RoW build: They take 10 on attack rolls (combat school); which is a pretty big deal as they can choose exactly how much dodge AC they can grant themselves or how much they want to PA for. Once they know a target's AC, they can trade out as much as they want for the most damage or AC.

Against swarms of enemies, they whirlwind and just... kill. Reach weapons make it very hard to enemies to take advantage of the AoOs that the character gives others; DR 17/Adamantine (12), - (5) helps mitigate any damage that connects.

Against single enemies they can rely on TWF'd attacks and taking double 5-Foot steps away from said enemy to get more attacks in. Expertise can be used to provide more AC.

Spell Casters have to deal with his saves (F +21, R +22, W +18) slippery Mind, evasion, and changing Dazed into Stunned. The Typical lvl 12 spell is a lvl 6 spell (DC 19 Minimum; a DC of 10 + 6 + 8 (26 int/wis/cha) is more likely; so the spell and effect DCs he'll face on average are DC 24; so he fails Will saves on a 6 or less; Reflex on a 1 and Fort on a 2). He can easily wade through any "blocking" enemies (and kill them while doing so via Whirlwind) that a Caster may have; and then proceed to kill them.

This fighter could also just snipe said caster. Three attacks with +24 damage each (PBS + Blitz).

Incorporeal undead would force this character to use Problem Solver and get Ghost Hunter; since he's not really geared to fight them; although golf bagging +1 Ghost touch weapons is possible.

----

sort of not done, but i gotta go to a tutoring session and i dont' want to keep the student waiting.

WIP post

Marrak Blackchains, Fiendslayer
Human (Races of War) Fighter 12
Medium Humanoid - HD 12d10 (66)+ 84 + 12 = (162 HP) [Note: Dont die until you reach -20]
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Speed: 30 ft. Fly 30 (9/day, 5 minutes per use)
Initiative: +8

Armour Class: 41 Touch Flatfooted

Damage Reduction:17/Adamantine (12), - (5)
Spell Resistance: 17 (5 + Caster lvl, Mage Slayer)


Attack: Melee +21 (Kusari-Gama 1d6+ __ ) [Reaches 35 feet]
or
Attack: Ranged +21 ('large' Str 18 Comp Longbow 2d6+ 6) []

Full Attack: +21/+19/+19 (Warchain 2d6+ 9) [Reaches 10-30 feet]


Saves: Fort +21 Reflex +22 (Balance Check) Will +18


Abilities: S 17 D 26 C 24 I 20 W 19 Ch 15
Skills:Note: Unlike the other fighter who gets at most 5 skills maxed (and those will probably be: Climb, Jump, Swim, Intimidate and Ride, not exacty useful)

Skills/lvl 6 + 4 int mod + 1 human mod = 12/lvl = 12 skills at 15 ranks

Balance (Dex), 15 + 8 - 4 + 3 = 22
Bluff (Cha),
Climb (Str),
Craft (Int), 15
Diplomacy (Cha), 15
Escape Artist (Dex), -
Handle Animal (Cha),
CC Hide (Dex) 7 + 8 (+15 Mod)
Intimidate (Cha), 15
Jump (Str),
Knowledge (all skills individually) (Int), All 10 +8 (30 pts among 10 skills)
Listen (Wis), 15
Move Silently (Dex), 15
Profession (Wis),
Ride (Dex),
Sense Motive (Wis), 15
Spot (Wis), 15
Survival (Wis), 5
Swim (Str), -
Tumble (Dex) 15
Use Rope (Dex)

Feats:See build; there are 11 feats total
Notable Items (Note: All items:
1. +5 Kusari-Gama #1 (in various material flavours)
2. +5 Kusari-Game #2 (in various material flavours)
3. +5 Dex Gloves
4. +5 Saves Cloak
5.
6.
7.
8.




Breakdown of abilities:

Notes:

Abilities (Elite Array: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, Cool
Str 10 (base) +5 (Inherent) +2 (Item) +2 (size)= 19 (+4)
Dex 15 (Base) +5 (Inherent) +5 (Item) +2 (levels 4 & 8)= 26
Con 14 (Base) +5 (Inherent) +1 (level 12) = 24 (+7)
Int 13 (Base) +5 (Inherent) = 20(+5)
Wis 12 (Base) +5 (Inherent) = 19(+4)
Cha 8 (Base) +5 (Inherent) = 15 (+2)

Init +8
BAB +12, Grap +15
Fort +21 (8 base +7 con +3 resistance +3 Great Fort)
Ref +22 (8 base +8 dex +3 resistance +3 Lighting Ref) [Evasion, Make a Balance check (+22 ) to save]
Will +18 (8 base +4 wis +3 resistance +3 Iron Will)

Levels/Feats:


1. Fighter Weapons Training, Combat Focus [2]Weapon Finesse,
2. Fighter [1]
3. Fighter Problem Solver, Pack Mule[1]
4. Fighter [1]
5. Fighter Logistics Mastery, Active Assault[]
6. Fighter [2]
7. Fighter Forge Lore, Improved Delay[]
8. Fighter [1]
9. Fighter Foil Action[1]
10. Fighter [1]
11. Fighter Lunging Attacks[]
12. Fighter [2]
[/list]
[12]
[]


12 FeatsL
1. Danger Sense (make a sense motive check on anyhting within 60', you know if they want to hurt you, even if you don't see them)
2. Whirlwind (as a full round: make a move action and attack anyone you can reach use only one attack roll; +3 on balance checks, anyone who moves into your threatened area after you whirlwind provokes and AoO)
3. Blitz, (+12 damage, only -2 to bonus attacks, intimidate for free)

4. Weapon Finesse (Dex to hit & damage, dex for tripping, gain edge if you have more dex)
5. Hordebreaker, (3 AoOs, stock, +3 TWF, +8 Dex = 14 AoOs/Round)

6. Great Fortitude, (die at -20 HP, +1 hp/HD, DR 5/-)
7. Iron Will (Slippery Mind, Dazed instead of Stunned, Pain and Fear have no effect)
8. Lighting Reflexes (Evasion, Balance check instead of reflex save, +3 Init)

9. Combat School (+2 hit, +2 damage, DC 18 Fort or be dazed one round; TAKE 10 on attacks)
10. Two Weapon Fighting (+2 Shield Bonus, double attacks,


11. Sniper (all 30 feet things upgrade to 60'; shoot into mele fine, ignore partial cover, need to be found when ranged attacking)

12. Command (Cohort; lvl 10 Rogue; UMD wand user/Sneak; uses ranged sneak touch attacks with Minor Creation or Produce Flame and casts multi-target buffs on themself and Marrak; Common buffs Invis Sphere, Magi Aura (to HIDE all magic auras on both characters; Silence, Haste, Fly.



XXXMage Slayer, [Subbed in with Problem Solver]
XXXElusive Target,


Class Features:

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Fighters are proficient with all simple and Martial Weapons. Fighters are proficient with Light, Medium, and Heavy Armor and with Shields and Great Shields.

Weapons Training (Ex): Fighters train obsessively with armor and weapons of all kinds, and using a new weapon is easy and fun. By practicing with a weapon he is not proficient with for a day, a Fighter may permanently gain proficiency with that weapon by succeeding at an Intelligence check DC 10 (you may not take 10 on this check).

Combat Focus (Ex): A Fighter is at his best when the chips are down and everything is going to Baator in a handbasket. When the world is on fire, a Fighter keeps his head better than anyone. If the Fighter is in a situation that is stressful and/or dangerous enough that he would normally be unable to "take 10" on skill checks, he may spend a Swift Action to gain Combat Focus. A Fighter may end his Combat Focus at any time to reroll any die roll he makes, and if not used it ends on its own after a number of rounds equal to his Base Attack Bonus.

Problem Solver (Ex): A Fighter of 3rd level can draw upon his intense and diverse training to respond to almost any situation. As a Swift action, he may choose any [Combat] feat he meets the prerequisites for and use it for a number of rounds equal to his base attack bonus. This ability may be used once per hour.

Pack Mule (Ex): Fighters are used to long journeys with a heavy pack and the use of a wide variety of weaponry and equipment. A 3rd level Fighter suffers no penalties for carrying a medium load, and may retrieve stored items from his person without provoking an attack of opportunity.

Logistics Mastery (Ex): Fighters are excellent and efficient logisticians. When a Fighter reaches 5th level, he gains a bonus to his Command Rating equal to one third his Fighter Level.

Active Assault (Ex): A 5th level Fighter can flawlessly place himself where he is most needed in combat. He may take a 5 foot step as an immediate action. This is in addition to any other movement he takes during his turn, even another 5 foot step.

Forge Lore: A 7th level Fighter can produce magical weapons and equipment as if he had a Caster Level equal to his ranks in Craft.

Improved Delay (Ex): A Fighter of 7th level may delay his action in one round without compromising his Initiative in the next round. In addition, a Fighter may interrupt another action with his delayed action like it was a readied action (though he does not have to announce his intentions before hand).

Foil Action (Ex): A 9th level Fighter may attempt to monkeywrench any action an opponent is taking. The Fighter may throw sand into a beholder's eye, bat aside a key spell component, or strike a weapon hand with a thrown object, but the result is the same: the opponent's action is wasted, and any spell slots, limited ability uses, or the like used to power it are expended. A Fighter must be within 30 feet of his opponent to use this ability, and must hit with a touch attack or ranged touch attack. Using Foil Action is an Immediate action. A Fighter may not wait until an action is partially completed before deciding to attempt to foil the action, but must instead attempt to foil an action as it is declared. Note that this means that a Fighter may not foil a Full Attack (because it is not declared until after it has already begun), nor may he foil a move or charge action that began out of range.
At 17th level, Foil Action may be used at up to 60 feet.

Lunging Attacks (Ex): The battlefield is an extremely dangerous place, and 11th level Fighters are expected to hold off Elder Elementals, Hezrous, and Hamatulas. Fighters of this level may add 5 feet to the reach of any of their weapons.


AC breakdown:


10
8 (base 3 + 1/2 BaB) Dex
2 Vest of Natural Armour +2 (Enhancement Natural Armour)
8 (Crucian Form) Headband of Alter Self (Racial Natural Armour)
2 Ring of Protection +2 (Defletction)
8 +1 Moderate Fortification Silk Steel Armour (Armour) (+2 on hide checks, negate the 1st -10 on move silently checks for moving, take 10 less damage when falling on flat ground)
4 +3 Buckler (Sheild) (no penalty, 13+ ranks in balance)

=52 Touch 30 FlatFooted 34

Feats:

Tactics:
By Round

VS.