So I'm working up a campaign, and most of my players aren't going to be multi-classing. So I'm looking for a way to make saving throws more functional with only single classes, as well as a way to make sure it's not impeded in multi-classing for the... two or three players who are going to be taking a PrC.
So, here's my thoughts on saving throws.
Good - Equal to your level.
Bad - Equal to 1/2 your level (rounded down).
Pretty much, the same as good and bad BAB. It's certainly not too little, but it could well be too much. Ideas?
Saving Throw Fix
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Saving Throw Fix
Absentminded_Wizard wrote:Yes, according to 4e RAW, you are your own enemy.4e PHB, p. 57 under "Target" (bolding mine) wrote:When a power’s target entry specifies that it affects you and one or more of your allies, then you can take advantage of the power’s effect along with your team-mates. Otherwise, “ally” or “allies” does not include you, and both terms assume willing targets. “Enemy” or “enemies” means a creature or creatures that aren’t your allies (whether those creatures are hostile toward you or not). “Creature” or “creatures” means allies and enemies both, as well as you.
Races of War suggested that:
If you already have a good save in a category, and you take a class with that good Save, you get +1 instead of +2.
Working on a build, I also came up with a save rule that boils down to, "If you've had the same value for a save for two character levels, you advance on the third level, no matter what."
If you already have a good save in a category, and you take a class with that good Save, you get +1 instead of +2.
Working on a build, I also came up with a save rule that boils down to, "If you've had the same value for a save for two character levels, you advance on the third level, no matter what."
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
0: what exactly do you wanna change for single-classers? And, are you using equipment (either official or BoG) as-is?
Maxus: the first's admitted by F&K to be worse than properly used fractional scheming. So, I ask, why not ditch both rules and just use fractional? Here, I'm talking to an actual single person that looks able to use a calculator, if that even happens to be needed ....
Maxus: the first's admitted by F&K to be worse than properly used fractional scheming. So, I ask, why not ditch both rules and just use fractional? Here, I'm talking to an actual single person that looks able to use a calculator, if that even happens to be needed ....
Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.
Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)
brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!
LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.
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TarkisFlux
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I ran a similar thought past people a while ago (see here if you're interested).
Equal to your level is probably too good since it outpaces DC growth (which is generally about 3/4 after accounting for stat boosts). For a really low level game it's probably fine though, since it won't grow enough to be a problem. Mid - high level characters with item bonuses will pretty much laugh when asked to make a save against their good stat though.
Really, unless you're planning on tweaking available bonuses (spells and items and stat boosts), you probably don't need to adjust base saves for anyone. You do need to understand that the system is based around access to boosters though, and that base saves on their own are insufficient. Boosters or mechanics tweaks, take your pick.
Equal to your level is probably too good since it outpaces DC growth (which is generally about 3/4 after accounting for stat boosts). For a really low level game it's probably fine though, since it won't grow enough to be a problem. Mid - high level characters with item bonuses will pretty much laugh when asked to make a save against their good stat though.
Really, unless you're planning on tweaking available bonuses (spells and items and stat boosts), you probably don't need to adjust base saves for anyone. You do need to understand that the system is based around access to boosters though, and that base saves on their own are insufficient. Boosters or mechanics tweaks, take your pick.
Last edited by TarkisFlux on Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
The wiki you should be linking to when you need a wiki link - http://www.dnd-wiki.org
Fectin: "Ant, what is best in life?"
Ant: "Ethically, a task well-completed for the good of the colony. Experientially, endorphins."
Fectin: "Ant, what is best in life?"
Ant: "Ethically, a task well-completed for the good of the colony. Experientially, endorphins."
It's a good point. I always forget to record the bonuses granted by magical items. I guess the fix isn't really necessary, though the RoW note is certainly useful.
Absentminded_Wizard wrote:Yes, according to 4e RAW, you are your own enemy.4e PHB, p. 57 under "Target" (bolding mine) wrote:When a power’s target entry specifies that it affects you and one or more of your allies, then you can take advantage of the power’s effect along with your team-mates. Otherwise, “ally” or “allies” does not include you, and both terms assume willing targets. “Enemy” or “enemies” means a creature or creatures that aren’t your allies (whether those creatures are hostile toward you or not). “Creature” or “creatures” means allies and enemies both, as well as you.
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Username17
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I got that from RoW, sure - in fact, that people in general fail to manage fractions mentally's well-known to me too. I was asking Maxus on the assumption that ... using a calculator wouldn't be too hard for someone deserving to live (people with extremely crappy motor ability excluded).FrankTrollman wrote:Because in my experience, people can't actually do fractional.Bigode wrote:So, I ask, why not ditch both rules and just use fractional?
Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.
Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)
brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!
LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.
Presumably people can do table lookups though?FrankTrollman wrote:Because in my experience, people can't actually do fractional.Bigode wrote:So, I ask, why not ditch both rules and just use fractional?
If you just add a couple of boxes to the character sheets to record the number of levels with good/medium/bad BAB/saves and make a hand out with the 2 necessary 2D tables and the players would have to be exceptionally stupid not to manage. Only table lookup and integer addition skills necessary.
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JonSetanta
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Yes good sir it does indeed suck.FrankTrollman wrote: Because in my experience, people can't actually do fractional.
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ZERO, use 4e saves. Made my d20 life easier...
Everyone gets +1/2 level, round down, to all saves.
Classes add 1, maybe 2, +2 typed bonuses (Class bonus?) to specific saves.
Grabbing more classes means more variety, but there's only 3 saves, so... yeah.
Or you could just give everyone +2 and +1/2 level to all saves and say "screw you" to class specialties.
Last edited by JonSetanta on Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.