A better statblock for 3.5 monsters with Tome support

koz · Post by **koz** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:02 pm

Due to my current writing of an (extensive) number of houserules heavily based on the Tomes, I realised that both the 'old' and 'new' statblocks created by WotC for monsters are actually confusing as hell and annoying to fill in. With that in mind, I would like to create some new ones, but I am not sure how to go about doing so.

The most important thing about it is that it should make stuff you regularly wanna reference in combat readily apparent. It should also have provisions for things like Tome rules for things and be simple to fill in and navigate.

Any and all suggestions would be very welcome.

IGTN · Post by **IGTN** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:19 pm

I've actually been meaning to get around to designing a Tome character sheet for a while. Not really helpful, but a related project.

Actually, remembering my monster designing days, what might be better are two, interconvertable, stat block formats for monsters: one that's structured so that you can go through the steps of calculating a monster's stats in the order you need to (i.e., it puts ability scores at the top), and another one that's conveniently ordered for use in play.

I'll see about sketching up the character sheet.

koz · Post by **koz** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:22 pm

IGTN wrote:I've actually been meaning to get around to designing a Tome character sheet for a while. Not really helpful, but a related project.

That would be incredibly useful too. The thing is, I'm a pretty terrible non-game designer of just about anything, which is why I'm asking for help like this.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:03 pm

One of the issues with Tome combat is advanced combat rules, which have the following numbers:

Bullrush: +Str+Siz
Feint defense: Wis+max(BAB, Sense Motive ranks)
'Hold on' defense: touch AC + BAB
Grapple: +BAB+Str+Siz
Trip: +BAB+Str

I'm somewhat a fan of the WotC format. Here's the combat block I actually use:

Creature (size type: subtype₁, ...)
Initiative: bonus
AC: number, touch: number. SR: number. Fortitude: bonus, Reflex: bonus, Will: bonus.
DR: type number, .... Resistances: type number, .... HP: number (dice + Con).
full attacks that fit on one line
Full attacks:bonus/... name damage (special), ....
indent-> ...
full attack across multiple lines (e.g. iterative + natural weapons)
Full attacks:
Tab-> bonus/... name damage (special),
Tab-> ....
Tab-> ...
Special attacks (things like rend and wolf's trip): rules, ....
Combat maneuvers (BAB: bonus): bullrush bonus, feint defense number, grapple bonus, 'hold on' defense number, trip bonus.
Standard combat actions: rules, ....
Move combat actions: rules, ....
Swift combat actions: rules, ....
Immediate combat actions: rules, ....
Free combat actions: rules, ....

Yes, that's fucking horrible, but 3e is a very complex game. Other numeric bonuses (e.g. skills) go right below that, then utility abilities (darkvision, movement, etc), then a full-up listing of other powers.

Ice9 · Post by **Ice9** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:36 am

Looks pretty good - I'd change the order of the 3rd and 4th lines, to put the optional stuff at the end:
AC, Fort, Ref, Will, SR
HP, DR, Resistances

I think vision should be up higher in the statblock, as it will often be needed before anything else - I actually like the way the newer-style blocks put it in the top line. IMO, movement should be above skills as well, and possibly even above attacks. I'm not sure organizing combat abilities by action type makes as much sense as organizing them by importance - although an active/passive division might be a good idea.

I don't think the complexity is actually as bad as it looks - many monsters will be omitting large sections of that block. Only something like a dragon or powerful outsider would actually need the full thing.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:46 am

I'll try to find mine tomorrow when I'm done with my paper.

But I start with a block for stuff relevant potentially at any time: intiative, perception (vision and skill bonuses), and all immediate actions available

Then a block for defensive information: HP, AC, DR, SR, energy resistances, saves etc.

Then finally the block for stuff that only matters on its turn, grouped as logically as possible. Stealth and athletic skills go in the movement line, and so on.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:41 am

Ice9 wrote:Looks pretty good - I'd change the order of the 3rd and 4th lines, to put the optional stuff at the end:
AC, Fort, Ref, Will, SR
HP, DR, Resistances

I think vision should be up higher in the statblock, as it will often be needed before anything else - I actually like the way the newer-style blocks put it in the top line. IMO, movement should be above skills as well, and possibly even above attacks. I'm not sure organizing combat abilities by action type makes as much sense as organizing them by importance - although an active/passive division might be a good idea..

I organize it by the order in which I'll reference it in a combat round. Putting DR and resistances first makes sense because they subtract from damage. Actions are grouped by type because that lets me pick one from each list.