The thread that started it all—namely, “Don’t kick out any players, bawwww.”
It’s your fault that someone is a jerk because Josh is a twat.
Here is where I call out the BG crew on their bullshit.
Three relevant threads.
To summarize the goings-on: the BG crew are fucktards who think that you can’t kick players out because it’s not nice. (Namely, they’re fuckwits who got the boot and thus are against kicking players out.) So I posted my rage thread (the third link), and we get to see excellent bullshit in action.
I tell Josh he’s full of shit (first link). He starts spouting pop psychology memes and keeps claiming that I’m wrong because I’m wrong. Then Caffeinemage, a friend of mine, reiterates the Brian story (that’s an entirely different thread within the third link) to Josh and explains to Josh why Caffeinemage did what he did.
Josh’s response?
Emphasis mine.Thank you for posting Caffinemage. I know you want to fight with me and defend your friend, the problem is, neither of you are well informed.
Now, here is where the advice comes in. I have taken in many people you would describe exactly the same as your bad player. And by treating them the way I do never had a problem. It's not hard and it does not take more work. So you want to listen to me, or not, fine.
If you don't want to learn how to be a better person and gamer, also fine. It is your life.
Lets look at what you are doing here, right now,in this thread. What is your goal? Because if my statement is "be awesome to each other" your statement is "Be shitty to each other."
I think you guys might be a little caught up in the "winning" (or rather the lets defend PR) and are missing the fact that we are trying to help people out and be positive, and you are trying to knock that down.
The reason we need to fight people like you is because you poison the hobby. Stop it. People come here and read these threads to learn how to play and play better. Stop ruining it for them so you can win an argument.
Now I know you didn't think about it that way, so it's cool. But now you know.
I responded:
THE POST MYSTERIOUSLY DISAPPEARS.How dare you tell the people who were in the game that we aren't "well-informed"? You are arrogant, condescending, and indescribably small-minded. How dare you call us "poison to the hobby" when your advice is a literally a toxin unto nations? Your whole "feel-good" bullshit that prevents people from taking responsibility cripples America's justice system. Not only are people like you bad for the hobby, but you and your perverse ilk are bad for the world.
How dare you judge us, you narrow-minded invertebrate! How dare you imply that we are bad people and bad gamers because we kicked an asshole out of our group! How dare you imply that you are better than us.
Josh, I'm going to be blunt: I'm smarter than you. A lot smarter. Caffeinemage is also a lot smarter than you. You're just the teenager in the room when the adults are talking politics.
Meanwhile, back in the third thread, Josh gives some of the following golden replies:
The problem with your statement [that it is the douchebag’s fault for being a douchebag] is that it directs change upon others "look steve, everyone here thinks you are too Canadian. Please stop it."
You control your own self. If a problem is your fault, you can fix it. If it isn't you can cry, whine or nag.
This is america you can make your choice, we are not the boss of you.
This incites my blood to boiling. I reply:You do not have the power to control the behavior of others. The only truly useful solutions involve you doing stuff. with me so far?
Would you rather be able to do something or not?
By considering the situation in light of it being your problem you can adjust your behavior and fix it.
in recap:
1) Would you like to fix the issue?
2) You are the only person you control
3) If the problem is mine, I can effect it.
4) I should consider the problem as if it were mine own
PS- the blame game is for chumps. who cares who's fault it is, unless it solves the problem?
I give the following as an example of Josh’s shitty advice:I should not have to carry the weight of someone who is being a problem. That's like saying, "Hey, why don't you learn to treat knife wounds since Dickface McStabby has a tendency to attack people with his machete? I mean, you can't change his behavior, but you can work to alleviate the problem."
In short: epic fail is epic.
Josh says thatMom: Did you steal a cookie?
Child: Yes.
Mom: Well, I'm glad you told me the truth, but you're going to your room now and you're not getting dessert tonight with dinner.
Josh: HOLD ON MOM LOOK AT THE PROBLEM THIS WAY--YOU CAN'T CONTROL THAT CHILD'S BEHAVIOR YOU CAN ONLY CONTROL YOUR OWN. YOU SHOULD LOOK AT THE CHILD'S COOKIE-STEALING AS YOUR PROBLEM AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
Mom: Really?
Josh: YEAH YOU SHOULD PROBABLY LET THE KID HAVE COOKIES WHENEVER HE WANTS
Mom: Great advice, Josh! That's a surefire solution.
Child: LOL DIABESITY
and then tries to use logic. But since he’s an idiot, he fails.Life's not fair. Suck it up.
I try to explain this to him.
Meanwhile, AfterCrescent goes back to my cookie analogy and posts the following:One player is ruining the game for everyone else. Other players try to help him. The one player continues to ruin the game. The group decides it is in the group's best interest not to play with that one player. The game starts being fun for everyone again.
IT'S WIN-WIN. Except for the player who was ruining the game, but he deserved it.
See, Josh, in the real world, actions have consequences. That means if Johnny McKKK screams racial slurs at a black power rally, he's going to get his ass kicked. I mean, you could try and tell the offended that they need to understand Johnny's needs and how his racial slurs were their fault for whatever reason, but the truth is much simpler: Johnny McKKK is a gigantic asshat and deserved his ass-handing. In the future, that negative consequence will hopefully guide him to be less of a dick.
I reply:
Terrible example. Perhaps the parent should stop sucking and put the cookies out of the child's reach? There's lots of options. That example pretty much showcases a close minded attitude, if that's your goal.
POST MYSTERIOUSLY DISAPPEARS.Wow. Not only did you manage to completely miss the point I was trying to make--namely, that Josh's advice is piss-poor and unhealthy--but you managed to criticize the parent for the child's bad behavior.
That is beyond epic, and it underlines the entire mindset of failure that cripples nations: You did something wrong, but it's not your fault. ("You couldn't help but steal those cookies. They were right there, sitting in front of you. You're the victim here." Huzzah for defense attorneys.) Honestly, I am curious: how did your parents raise you? Because when I was growing up, if my mom said, "Don't have a cookie before dinner," it meant "don't have a cookie before dinner, even if you're hungry, even if the cookie jar is on the table, even if Mom's not looking." Perhaps in your house it meant "don't have a cookie unless you're going to get caught," which would certainly explain a lot about how the lot of you are talking in circles and stammering out twisted defenses of your own statements.
I now raise three cheers for personal responsibility and not sparing the rod. Your victimization mentality sickens me.
Then Josh writes this:
Why do morons always end up in charge?Here is our position, that you have been arguing against:
Don't kick people out of your game for "in game" reasons.
Don't think about kicking people out, because it limits your problem solving.
Try to solve problems rather than just kicking people out.
Deciding to leave a game or even talking someone into leaving is not kicking them out.
Here is the "assumed" position your side takes:
If you don't like the way someone plays or acts, just kick them out
You need no justification for kicking people out
Kicking people out is fun.
To summarize:
If you kick a player out, you’re an immoral douchebag who enjoys shitting on other people and it’s your fault that he was a bad player because personal responsibility doesn’t exist on BG because I have no idea why, God help us if these people are real.
