druids

[Judging__Eagle]

Would splitting them into 'Feral' and 'Mystic' be a good way to make Druids more toned down, and also more viable for new people?

Feral Druids: get better than druid wildshaping, form changing spells, buffs, and animal pets; can cast spells in animal form

Mystic Druids: get full spell casting; reduced in power pets, and reduced in power wild shapes; like, they can 'look' like a wolf, or something; but can't turn into monsters that are credible threats. All shape-changing spells are toned down, or removed from the mystic druid's list.

Both: healing, armour/weapon proffs, hiding/seeing spells; travelling spells; both should get blasting; Mystic Druids can poach Cleric spell lists.

Is that good for a start?

[IGTN]

Probably.

I was looking at splitting the druid into thirds: Plant, Animal, and Storm druids. Plant and Animal druids both get healing, animal druids get shapeshifting and animal companions, plant druids get all the awesome plant spells druids get, and storm druids are basically ultra-blasters and modify the terrain with the various nonliving forces of nature, so earthquakes and so on are also in their domain. Plant druids might end up a little weak on that scheme, though, unless they get a "plant companion" or something.

Regardless, slicing the class and splitting its features into two or three classes is really the way to go. Feral and Mystic seems like as good a split as any. Keeping the Animal Companion and Wildshape out of the hands of a full caster is a good thing. The only problem is that you haven't actually explained what the Feral Druid loses in terms of spellcasting (they keep blasting, shapechanging spells, healing, stealth and travel related, and so on; the only thing I see them losing is battlefield control). I'd probably take blasting away from the Feral Druid and make it more of a Duskblade-style caster.

[Judging__Eagle]

Well... I was thinking, maybe different spell lists.

Mystic Druids seriously could have Fireball, while a feral gets Produce Flame.

Making Mystic Druids look more like a Wizard, and a Feral Druid look like some sort of Animal/Human-Barbarian.

[CatharzGodfoot]

Keeping druids from casting spells while in animal form helps with some things (being a little bird is for stealth rather than nuking). The animal companion might be better handled with extended-duration SNA spells, which are powerful enough on their own.

The "feral druid" you describe sounds like a bear warrior, which is damn' cool.

[Prak]

Plant druids might end up a little weak on that scheme, though, unless they get a "plant companion" or something.

Dragon Magazine did a "plant companion" variant back when it was still running, they developed and changed as you leveled up, it was pretty cool. I'll see if I can figure out which issue it was from.

The "feral druid" you describe sounds like a bear warrior, which is damn' cool.

The Bear Warrior was one of those classes that gave you lovely stacking strength bonuses with Rage... if the feral druid possibly does this as well... christ.

[Judging__Eagle]

Yeah, I'm fien with mystic druids not being able to cast.

However, -some- druids cast spells in animal form. Those ones, should be feral Druids.

Mystic Druids tend to be either non-threatening, or not really dangerous looking animals.

So, bird, wolf, fox, snake, ape, big cat.

Feral Druids turn into wtfballz creatures. They start off as big wolves; turn into worgs, then maybe winter wolves; and perhaps even outsider creatures that are animals?

and... get no spell casting.

Instead they get to change into "animals", that gives them their special abilities, and combat power. Sort of like a Totemist; except that they change into the creature that they want to be. Probably... their own CR, say -1.

Actually.... that could be the class. You call it the Feral Druid; and the class is basically a non-class. The Character just uses a set of monster manual stats; their own CR -1, plus any gear that they wear. We'll assume that a Feral Druid gets their item's on them at all times. They just change form.

[CatharzGodfoot]

It would be interesting if the "mystic druid" also situationally changed most of her capabilities--but based on environment. She is always 'in her element': If she's touching the ground, she gets earth-based powers. If she's exposed to the open sky, she calls upon sky spirits. She can call upon the aid of nearby plants. In the water the naiads give her aid. Most local animals (intelligence 1-2 creatures) are also at her beck and call.

So a druid in the woods gets to animate trees and underbrush and call upon forest animals. If she's also touching the ground then she can also conjure up earth elemental effects; if she's in the canopy she can ask an air spirit to carry her aloft.
On the open ocean she has water and sky powers, as well as the aid of sharks and the like.
A druid underwater only gets water powers, but those tend to be good when everyone is underwater. If she's in a kelp forest, you can bet that the crabs, seals, and kelp will also all be looking out for her.
In a desert or grassy field she has sky and earth powers.
Generally the druid is a little shafted underground, in the sky, and open regions underwater (places where there is little life). In cities she can still be quite effective, so long as she isn't stuck deep in a mansion.

That's quite a lot of ability sets (~4), so they'll either need to be simple and powerful (1/level max), or they'll need to be a secondary focus of the class. The simplest way to do this is a spontaneous spell list with all known where every spell follows the situationally useful paradigm. For the other abilities, I'm thinking it'll be mostly espionage: divinations, communication, and stealth.

[Prak]

It would be interesting if the "mystic druid" also situationally changed most of her capabilities--but based on environment. She is always 'in her element': If she's touching the ground, she gets earth-based powers. If she's exposed to the open sky, she calls upon sky spirits. She can call upon the aid of nearby plants. In the water the naiads give her aid. Most local animals (intelligence 1-2 creatures) are also at her beck and call.

So a druid in the woods gets to animate trees and underbrush and call upon forest animals. If she's also touching the ground then she can also conjure up earth elemental effects; if she's in the canopy she can ask an air spirit to carry her aloft.
On the open ocean she has water and sky powers, as well as the aid of sharks and the like.
A druid underwater only gets water powers, but those tend to be good when everyone is underwater. If she's in a kelp forest, you can bet that the crabs, seals, and kelp will also all be looking out for her.
In a desert or grassy field she has sky and earth powers.
Generally the druid is a little shafted underground, in the sky, and open regions underwater (places where there is little life). In cities she can still be quite effective, so long as she isn't stuck deep in a mansion.

That's quite a lot of ability sets (~4), so they'll either need to be simple and powerful (1/level max), or they'll need to be a secondary focus of the class. The simplest way to do this is a spontaneous spell list with all known where every spell follows the situationally useful paradigm. For the other abilities, I'm thinking it'll be mostly espionage: divinations, communication, and stealth.

Or you just have stuff like:
Call Forth the Spirits of Nature (Sp) You can call forth natural "spirits" to do your bidding. Refer to the below chart for what can be called under various circumstances.

• Forest/Jungle -- Animate Trees, animals with forest/jungle as their environment
• Aquatic -- Water Elementals, animals with aquatic as their environment
• Feet touching ground -- Earth Elementals
• Airborne -- Air elementals, animals with a fly speed
• etc.

[xXOblivionXx]

I
So a druid in the woods gets to animate trees and underbrush and call upon forest animals. If she's also touching the ground then she can also conjure up earth elemental effects; if she's in the canopy she can ask an air spirit to carry her aloft.
On the open ocean she has water and sky powers, as well as the aid of sharks and the like.
A druid underwater only gets water powers, but those tend to be good when everyone is underwater. If she's in a kelp forest, you can bet that the crabs, seals, and kelp will also all be looking out for her.
In a desert or grassy field she has sky and earth powers.
Generally the druid is a little shafted underground, in the sky, and open regions underwater (places where there is little life). In cities she can still be quite effective, so long as she isn't stuck deep in a mansion.

I suppose this would be like cleric spheres, but with varying power like: Water>Forest>Earth=Sky
or if we assume a dungeon heavy campaign Water>Forest=Sky>Earth

[Crissa]

I feel kinda weird about a shapeshifting Druid having an animal companion.

-Crissa

[Judging__Eagle]

Why though?

Why can't a giant wolf be the alpha of a pack of wolves?

Animal companions of feral druids are reasonable.

If anything, it should be a choice of feats. You get [Leader of the Pack] or [Elemental/Abberation/Outsider Wildshape], or something else as options.

[Crissa]

...

I think allies is one thing, but traveling animal companions is another.

-Crissa

[Prak]

plant companions are in Dragon 357